Boeing 767 crash near Houston, TX

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https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/24/us/texas-atlas-air-cargo-jet-crash-sunday/index.html Nosedived from 6700'? Strikes me as strange. First thought was that it ran out of fuel - there's been no mention of fire (crashed into 5' of water). But it wouldn't have "nosedived". There's also the press's ignorance of aviation and their need to sensationalize and use such terms when they may not be accurate. Pilot murder-suicide?
 

Astro14

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Two crew and a jumpseater. Word on the street is that the jumpseater was scheduled to start his career at United next month. A tragedy all around. Cargo flying is statistically more risky than passenger. Back side of the clock, two person crews, hazardous cargo, it all adds up...
 
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To me, the sudden loss of contact and large debris field for an aircraft at 6,000 ft suggests some form of in-flight breakup or separation of a control surface. Of course it's speculation and true analysis will occur. Even with the UPS Dubai 747 crash from a lithium battery fire, the crew was able to declare an emergency.
 

Astro14

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Originally Posted by john_pifer
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/24/us/texas-atlas-air-cargo-jet-crash-sunday/index.html Nosedived from 6700'? Strikes me as strange. First thought was that it ran out of fuel - there's been no mention of fire (crashed into 5' of water). But it wouldn't have "nosedived". There's also the press's ignorance of aviation and their need to sensationalize and use such terms when they may not be accurate. Pilot murder-suicide?
I'm going to go with "no way" on that speculation. Nose-dived may, or may not be true...witnesses in aviation mishaps are 90% unreliable. It's astonishing how many people see things that didn't happen. They really don't know what they're looking at, and the mind has s funny way of "filling in the gaps" to create a completely unreliable source... Typically, a loss of control of a cargo airplane, or a steep descent, is more likely the result of shifted cargo, on board fire, or simple mechanical failure...
 
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My brother is a Captain with Atlas Air , I called him when the story broke . I thank God he answered the phone . He usually flys the 747 freight liner . But you never know if he has to fill in n for someone or is sitting in the jump seat to get to another airport
 
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Whatever the cause it happened very suddenly. There was no mayday call or any communication that indicated a problem. RIP.
 
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The term "nose-dive" is not in the text or the video of the ABC report. It is reported that "a witness said the plane hit the water nose first(*)" which is likely the exact words by the witness, not the reporter. (*) the "nose" of course is usually the first part of any vehicle to crash into anything, making it very very slightly safer to choose a seat nearer the back of an airplane.
 
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Originally Posted by Astro14
......Typically, a loss of control of a cargo airplane, or a steep descent, is more likely the result of shifted cargo, on board fire, or simple mechanical failure...
This immediately comes to mind.
 

CT8

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The loss of a commercial plane is a loss of an important asset. The people. the plane , the work it does and provide.
 
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Originally Posted by billt460
[quote=Astro14]......Typically, a loss of control of a cargo airplane, or a steep descent, is more likely the result of shifted cargo, on board fire, or simple mechanical failure...
This immediately comes to mind Sadly It seems to be usually heavy cargo shift on takeoff that gets these cargo planes. It doesnt take much and takeoff is the one time in the flight that the aircraft tends to nose up more than just slightly. I knew a guy one that got killed in a Lancair high performance homebuilt. They say he left An airshow and did a zoom climb and a big pile of brochures fumbled way back into the rear of the cockpit pinning it into a hammerhead stall that was unrecoverable. Nothing but a big stack of paper killed him. It doesn't take much with aircraft to kill you with a sudden change in center of gravity.[/quote]
 
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Originally Posted by mk378
The term "nose-dive" is not in the text or the video of the ABC report. It is reported that "a witness said the plane hit the water nose first(*)" which is likely the exact words by the witness, not the reporter. (*) the "nose" of course is usually the first part of any vehicle to crash into anything, making it very very slightly safer to choose a seat nearer the back of an airplane.
That CNN article I posted said "nose-dived". But, as I said, the media tends to try to sensationalize/generate attention. And that organization in particular...
 
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1 After searching I saw the witness say straight down. 2 Looking on Flight aware prior to that I saw steady 2000 foot per minute down until 6000 feet of so. Then 4500 foot per minute down Then 3500 Then 2650 Then 4500 then 7000 end Don't quote those exact numbers but it was erratic for a bit but it fits the witness statement
 
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Originally Posted by clarkflower
1 After searching I saw the witness say straight down. 2 Looking on Flight aware prior to that I saw steady 2000 foot per minute down until 6000 feet of so. Then 4500 foot per minute down Then 3500 Then 2650 Then 4500 then 7000 end Don't quote those exact numbers but it was erratic for a bit but it fits the witness statement
7,000 feet per minute translates to just under a 80 MPH vertical descent. A 767 descending fully nose down, or even at a 45 degree angle would be descending at a much higher rate than that.
 
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You are wrong. The 7000 rate was at 3000. It was going up and down. If the witness saw it at 1500 feet or 800 feet you have no idea what the rate of descent was. When the nose goes over it does not instantly go to 25,000 fps down. 7000 fps down is not normal.
 
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Astro14

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The third person in the crash was a regional airline pilot named Sean Archuleta, who was riding the jumpseat. He was scheduled to start at United Airlines next month. He leaves behind a wife and two young girls. United Pilots, including me, have started donating to a go fund me for that family. I can share details if anyone is interested.
 
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