BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS

unDummy · Apr 25, 2003

Just wondering:
Taking filter or charitable donations? Where to send?

I'm looking for Fram XG3600 and HP#(6 or 10?) comparisons too, along with the other brands that are available around here.

I wonder what the bypass pressure is in that fram filter. The 20psi drop is pretty high.

digitaldrifter91 · Apr 25, 2003

i bet if u email fram they will answer right away. they answer my question within an hour. here is the guy who i go through.
[email protected]

scott there is a real nice guy. hehe he is nice enough to deal with me lOl. im courious about those XG filters as well.

Pablo · Apr 26, 2003

Any chance of testing the standard of all standards, Ford FL-1A????

I noticed you used an SDF-15, which I cross to the Motorcraft FL-1A.

digitaldrifter91 · May 2, 2003

any updates?

rugerman1 · May 2, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by unDummy:
Just wondering:
Taking filter or charitable donations? Where to send?

I'm looking for Fram XG3600 and HP#(6 or 10?) comparisons too, along with the other brands that are available around here.

I wonder what the bypass pressure is in that fram filter. The 20psi drop is pretty high.

From the first page:

BOBISTHEOILGUY

Administrator
Member # 1

posted March 26, 2003 12:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, I'd appreciate any help with the costs. I'm going to keep looking for filters and add to our line for testing as well. I have a paypal link on the bottom of the left side of the main page, bobistheoilguy.com if you want to use the computer. They do charge us a fee for using that service, but if you want to send a check here's the address. Thanks.

B. Winters
540 Sailfish Dr. E.
Atlantic Beach, Fl. 32233

Jay · May 2, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Fillherup:
... is there a one-to-one maping of flow vs PD? If not, does someone know the relationship?

It seems if the relationship is not one-to-one are we not missing the goals of this test? Isn't oil flow the real interst?

The relationship between flow and resistance and pressure drop is linear. Ohm's law governs the relationship:

I = E/R

where I is flow, E is pressure drop, and R is resistance in this instance.

[ May 02, 2003, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: Jay ]

satterfi · May 2, 2003

Try Bernoulli's equation. DP will be a function of V^2.

cheetahdriver · May 2, 2003

saterfi,

was about to question this, did a little research (very little, don't try to fly the space shuttle on this) and found that you are right. really counter intuitive for me.

equation is DP=A(mu)u+B(rho)u^2

where
A=viscous term coefficent
B=inertia term coefficient
u=velocity
mu=absolute viscosity
rho=density

satterfi · May 2, 2003

As you know, kinetic energy is (mV^2)/2. So in an energy balance equation like Bernoulli's you get DP=fn(V^2).

cheetahdriver · May 2, 2003

there are several interesing things about this. according to the article, the viscous term rules in low flow applications, which makes sense. in higher flow applications (>4gpm) the inertial term is the one with the major affect, and it is independent of viscosity. i would expect (and will do some research to find out) that the critical velocity (where the two terms are equal) is related to both the filtering media hole size and the absolute viscosity.

widman · May 4, 2003

Love the test.... the more info the better... If the fram was like the one I cut open, there would be little pressure drop because the base tube rested on the perforated center tube. no seal.
I've also cut 3 filters where I could blow through the "closed" bypass valve.
Where does this take into account the different amount of filter media? I found anywhere from 900 cm2 to 2831 cm2 on equivalent PH8A filters.
The test of the retention valve needs to be low pressure. I've seen a lot of filters that seal if you put back pressure on them but leak if left alone.
Digitaldrifter... that's an idea. I have a couple of clear plastic filters from Luber-finer (champion).. don't remember if it is also a cutaway inside, or what... I'll check Monday. If it looks good for that purpose I will send it. May not show much because the Luber filter has the bypass in the base. Don't know if they ever thought someone presurize it.

Pluto5 · May 4, 2003

It makes me slightly guilty to throw away these $2 S-T's after four months!

Patman · May 4, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by widman:
Love the test.... the more info the better... If the fram was like the one I cut open, there would be little pressure drop because the base tube rested on the perforated center tube. no seal.

This makes a lot of sense! Right from the beginning of this test I felt that the reason the Fram flowed so well was because it's probably leaking oil, or in complete bypass mode right away. Just look at how badly the Fram Toughguard filter did, and it's media isn't that much different from the Extraguard, so it just doesn't make sense that the Extraguard flowed so well here. And when you hear so often how the Fram Extraguard has such a small amount of media compared to other filters, it just doesn't make sense at all that it would flow so well unless it wasn't even going through the media at all.

rob-the-oil-nut · May 9, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by rugerman1:

B. Winters
540 Sailfish Dr. E.
Atlantic Beach, Fl. 32233

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I am sure I am not the only one that would like to send a filter or two. Is that an appropriate address? Is there a seperate address for us in Canada? I gather you will have plenty of brands like K&N and Amsoil which I have, but I also have a Hyundai filter and a few filters that are 10 + years old if that should interest you.
I would be interested in maybe moving your test apparatus into a chest freezer to see how filters do in winter. Or store just the oil and filter in a freezer, see how they behave in cold, then after they warm up, see the difference. Then maybe heat them and see again.
I'm a site supported, in no small part, to help fund this study. What's the latest on people donating filters?
Way to go BOB!

Idrinkmotoroil · May 17, 2003

Hey Bob, I'd like to see a test of a Honda oil filter or two if possible, considering that Fram makes the filters it would be cool to see. Plus there is a larger Honda filter and a smaller filter that fits my car, would be interesting to see if smaller filters work any better than the over-sized ones. I'd be willing to ship one of each filter to you to test as my contribution, if you are willing to do it, pm me your address and I will send two off to you next week. let me know. thanks for the great info bud !.

Joey

MolaKule · May 18, 2003

quote:

For what it's worth guys:

Shigley and Mischke, in "Mechanical Engineering Design,"
show that the oil flow required to maintain a 28 F differential between oil-in temp and oil-out temp of a bearing of 0.00175" clearance, is Q = 0.252 m^3/s for SAE 20 weight oil, at a shaft speed of 1800 RPM. This is for a bearing D = 1.5" and Length = 1.5." The lubricant temp is 130 F.

A Chevy main bearing in a 350 V8, by comparison, has an average clearance of 0.001925", a length of 1.21875", and a diameter of 2.448".

The flow rate Q should be in cm^3/s or centimeters-cubed per second which is in this case:
0.004 Gallons/minute or 0.015 liters/min.

BOBISTHEOILGUY · May 21, 2003

Rugerman(mark) came down from his yankee town in PA, just to get me off my butt and do some more filter testing.. NOT.. but we did have a bunch of fun and he did help with the oil filter testing that we are now going to show.

First, Let me explain some details as I stated earlier that we were re doing the filter tester.

We changed out both pressure gauges from 100psi to 60lbs.

We added an AMP gauge with the motor

We added a DC Volt meter with the motor

I rebuilt the P/s to carry a much higher current and with Mola's added Cap's it helped stabilize the motors rpm.

Now, with all those changes to the unit, we decided to start over again. But first, I thought we'd use the fram filter as a test.

Here was a fram dummy filter which I stripped out all the guts so to show full unrestricted flow on this machine.

Now, with a new fram filter with the guts in...

Ok, one last fram...
This one came off my car after having 3500 miles on it. Figured this might show just how much restriction a filter has accumilated with only 3500 miles for those that like to run extended drains.

Now at this point, I have no explaination as to why these filters do not match what we initally did other than the fact we may not have had enough current to run the motor and or a combination of the fact the oil was in the 70deg mark back then and now it is 84's in these. I believe the latter may expain most of the differences but again, I'm just showing you what I have.

Now, that we established the difference here, I'm going to show you something I was quite taken back with on BYPASS FILTER SETUPS...

We had two people send us bypass systems. We used our new fram filter, knowing what the exact pressure drop was and put that on the full flow side of the bypass system. And a new bypass filter that they sent with it. Here's what we saw.

Now, thinking we had a bad one, we brought the other one out and did the same thing... This one, we again used our new fram filter but left the used bypass filter on there...

More to come

[ May 21, 2003, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

Pablo · May 21, 2003

I cannot comprehend the by-pass/dual filter phenomenon. I can guarantee my car with dual remote FL-1A's does not see that pressure drop.

I don't understand how the bypass filter itself fit on the cheap cast dual remote filter holder....????

EDIT => Another thought - since the pressure drop is so hugely almost the same with both totally different filter holders - I submit there is some plumbing restriction somewhere...some small fitting or something...my gauge readings (post filter) are way higher with my dual filter set-up and same oil at same basic temp vs. a single filter on the block.

[ May 21, 2003, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]

BOBISTHEOILGUY · May 21, 2003

Let me point out something I failed to mention.

As you look at each one of these, the higher the restriction and more pressure drop across the filter, notice that the voltage will decrease.

Here's how that worked...

The mechanical valve was set and not moved. The way I setup the 40lb input into each filter was by taking the variac(a variable ac transformer which allows me to turn up or down the speed of the motor) and controlling the input speed from the oil pump.

So, the higher the number of volts,the less the resistance, the lower the number, the more the resistance.

dickwells · May 21, 2003

Maybe listing the variac setting for each filter would be of interest, unless it is just a function of the voltage, or vice versa.

BOBISTHEOILGUY FILTER TESTS

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