Are the plastic battery trays necessary?

littlehulkster

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Originally Posted by PandaBear
Bigger battery won't help too much if she doesn't drive it often. Can she put a Battery Tenderer on it and plug it in when not driving?
To be honest, I don't know if I'd actually trust my elderly mother to plug her car in every night in the winter.
Originally Posted by ondarvr
It appears many people commenting here have little experience with the small batteries in CRVs. The bigger battery is the best solution to this very common problem. The small battery has very little reserve capacity, and sitting unused the small draw from all the electronics in the vehicle can drain it to where it won't start the engine when cold. After a while it won't start it when warm either. Canada gets a higher rated CCA battery, so it has a little more reserve capacity. Honda's also have a dual range charging system, if it doesn't detect a heavy draw it charges at a very low rate. You can trick it into charging at the higher rate by turning on the headlights or anything that puts a load on the battery. Honda will replace the battery under warranty, but you typically get the same weak battery. After the warranty period they will prorate it on the battery warranty, but again you get the same small battery time after time. Going to the larger group 24 battery is what many people do, this ends the all too common dead battery syndrome these vehicles suffer from.
Yeah, poking around CRV forums it seems that the bigger battery usually fixes it. Would I be able to fit a 24 with no modifications beyond the new tray? I know the 35 is standard in Canada so it seemed safer to me, but if a 24 fits no problem, they don't cost any more so may as well.
 
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WA
I will also add I bought a 2017 old stock Civic with the small battery. It was dead when we went to test drive it. When I bought it they put in a new larger diehard battery. I did the same thing with an old stock 2016 CRV, again the battery was dead on their lot, they replaced it with the larger Diehard too. This dealer doesn't mess with the smaller stock battery because of the reoccurring problems with it.
 
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The tray is the only thing you need unless the hold down bracket is different You can go to the "CRV owners Forum" and get the full details and part numbers for the items needed. It's cheap and easy. I think some people just cut the existing tray to fit the bigger battery.
 

littlehulkster

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Originally Posted by ondarvr
The tray is the only thing you need unless the hold down bracket is different You can go to the "CRV owners Forum" and get the full details and part numbers for the items needed. It's cheap and easy. I think some people just cut the existing tray to fit the bigger battery.
Would one of the universal trays they sell at parts stores work? I don't want to mess around with the Honda dealer if I don't have to. I can order off Amazon/Ebay but I'd really like to get this fixed tomorrow.
 
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Worst Case, Ontario
Originally Posted by ondarvr
It appears many people commenting here have little experience with the small batteries in CRVs. The bigger battery is the best solution to this very common problem. The small battery has very little reserve capacity, and sitting unused the small draw from all the electronics in the vehicle can drain it to where it won't start the engine when cold. After a while it won't start it when warm either. Canada gets a higher rated CCA battery, so it has a little more reserve capacity. Honda's also have a dual range charging system, if it doesn't detect a heavy draw it charges at a very low rate. You can trick it into charging at the higher rate by turning on the headlights or anything that puts a load on the battery. Honda will replace the battery under warranty, but you typically get the same weak battery. After the warranty period they will prorate it on the battery warranty, but again you get the same small battery time after time. Going to the larger group 24 battery is what many people do, this ends the all too common dead battery syndrome these vehicles suffer from.
I thought CCA and reserve capacity were inversely proportionate? Higher CCA = less reserve capacity.
 

littlehulkster

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Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by ondarvr
It appears many people commenting here have little experience with the small batteries in CRVs. The bigger battery is the best solution to this very common problem. The small battery has very little reserve capacity, and sitting unused the small draw from all the electronics in the vehicle can drain it to where it won't start the engine when cold. After a while it won't start it when warm either. Canada gets a higher rated CCA battery, so it has a little more reserve capacity. Honda's also have a dual range charging system, if it doesn't detect a heavy draw it charges at a very low rate. You can trick it into charging at the higher rate by turning on the headlights or anything that puts a load on the battery. Honda will replace the battery under warranty, but you typically get the same weak battery. After the warranty period they will prorate it on the battery warranty, but again you get the same small battery time after time. Going to the larger group 24 battery is what many people do, this ends the all too common dead battery syndrome these vehicles suffer from.
I thought CCA and reserve capacity were inversely proportionate? Higher CCA = less reserve capacity.
Well, the battery in there now is 450 CCA and 80 reserve minutes, whereas a regular group 24 from Autozone is 720 CCA and 120 RM, so I don't think that's the case.
 
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I could have worded it better, but the battery is too small, it's depleted easily. The higher CCA can afford to lose more of its charge and still start the engine. The larger battery gives you more reserve capacity in all aspects.
 
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As for the tray, nobody mentions the after market trays, and both of my Honda's came with the larger batteries. I never looked at how they were mounted.
 
What I have done in the past is fold a plastic garbage bag and place it under the battery.( ie toss the tray). I'm assuming you would still have a metal base under there and that you are still using the battery hold down. smile
 
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What you are getting at is this I believe... Guys... I have a group 24f battery in my Nissan Altima VQ right now that is rated at 550 CCA at 0°F... That rating obviously drops as the ambient temperature drops.... So at say -15°F my battery may well be only able to produce say 400 CCA.... And say at -30°F it may produce 275 CCA... And at -40 it may only produce 200 CCA... Any colder than that it would be a good idea to use a plug in system. So in region's like where the op lives where it was -35 °F just last year... A higher CCA battery is truly necessary because of amperage drop off related to very cold temperatures observed there.
 
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Heh, once again we seem to have drifted off the topic which was not opinions on whether someone should get a larger battery - That is ALREADY the intent. The answer is no, a plastic tray is not necessary but in the long term you may suffer faster corrosion of the metal under the battery if you don't have one. This is a long term effect, you can go ahead and get the larger battery now and then get around to getting the tray later, or even make one out of a piece of (non-brittle) plastic if you're handy fabricating this type of thing, though if others are right about the low price (or from a junkyard) then it hardly seems worth the bother to roll your own.
 
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littlehulkster

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Originally Posted by Dave9
Heh, once again we seem to have drifted off the topic which was not opinions on whether someone should get a larger battery - That is ALREADY the intent. The answer is no, a plastic tray is not necessary but in the long term you may suffer faster corrosion of the metal under the battery if you don't have one. This is a long term effect, you can go ahead and get the larger battery now and then get around to getting the tray later, or even make one out of a piece of (non-brittle) plastic if you're handy fabricating this type of thing, though if others are right about the low price (or from a junkyard) then it hardly seems worth the bother to roll your own.
If I was to get an AGM battery, I could avoid that corrosion entirely, right?
 
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You don't necessarily need an AGM battery as there are many new Lead Acid Batteries that are also sealed. I prefer lead acid batteries with the removal caps. Maybe I'm still old school but, I like to keep an eye on my acid level and keep it above the lead plates and use a Tender/maintainer as well. I've been trying to learn as much as I can about AGM batteries and what I've gathered is... AGM batteries have a deeper drain down/deeper cycle than a traditional lead acid battery. But they're not a "deep cycle" battery(persay) like marine batteries are. They're somewhere in between the traditional lead acid battery and the deep cycle/marine battery; which is also lead acid. Also, AGM batteries will have less(if any) spillage in case of car crash(similar to a gel battery) but, they're not a Gel Battery. I think that the Absorbent Glass Matt(AGM) will hold the acid from spilling. AGM batteries have some advantages over lead acid batteries. However, I'm not sure what their disadvantages are except that they may need a different charging system(alternator) and/or, don't like traditional(old style) battery chargers(charger must say, Lead Acid & AGM). Also, AGM cost more than the top line lead acid batteries. The AGM are more expensive but not unaffordable. Anywaaaaay, this is the way I understand it so, I hope I said all of this correctly. ^^^ smile When my daughter bought her new battery for her '15 Civic(as I mentioned earlier), Walmart(W*M) EverStart MAXX is sealed where as Advance Auto Parts(AAP) WearEver GOLD has the removal caps(both lead acid/51-R). Both the W*M & AAP battery have the same spec's & warranty.
 
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Honda's always had small batteries. We owned 4 over time and ran them yo a rusty death and I dealt with others regularly. when I could I just chuckled the biggest size that fit in there being in the North, never any problems. I set the bigger ones on a small block of panel / plywood. Be thankful you can put a big one in. The last civic I had left no room whatsoever sandwiched into a nook on the firewall . Tiny battery about the size of a big Harley bike. In all the years and hundreds of thousands of miles none of my trays rusted out, just rust typical of the surroundings tray or not. Just flush it out under there once in a while as it's a crud collection point .
 
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ROCHESTER, NY
My older Hondas used to come with respectable size batteries(Group 35 size IIRC). But now, they're coming with batteries so small that, once the hold down bracket is off, I can lift out the battery with one hand...Grab & lift, there's nothing to it. And I can do it with my bad hand. But as far as the metal battery trays go? I haven't had a metal tray rot out in way >40 years when cars were designed so you could reach anything but were unprotected against the Western NY State winter salt.
 
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2,007
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My sister has a 2005 crv with the tiny group51r, in Florida, originally sold in Florida. I saw that a much larger battery could fit in the space, but not inspected the tray. The 2 year old interstate, an hour after engine shutdown was reading only 12.73v, and it seems to crank slower than it should. I would expect surface charge voltage to last longer after driving, but each battery is different,with many variables affecting surface charge voltage retention. I'll hold it at 14.7v for several hours until amperage stops tapering, Then back off voltage to 13.6 until she needs to goto work the next day . It has not seen an external charging source since I was here last year. I'll likely be 2500 miles away when it fails, but she got ripped off on the interstate 51r, I saw a 24 in a local AP store for ~100$ and she's claiming twice that expended to have it replaced last time.
 

littlehulkster

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Yeah I was going to fix this today, then it snowed. I guess I never considered a small piece of plywood. I have no idea why Honda switched to these garbage batteries, even the best ones are pretty woeful for a modern electronics laden car. The really dumb thing is, as I said before, the metal tray and tiedowns can clearly fit a MUCH larger battery. You'd think the warranty claims in northern states would be enough to dissuade them, but I guess not.
 

littlehulkster

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Well, got it fixed. If any of you have a CRV with battery issues, a size 24F will fit. It's tight, but it works. Autozone had the tray I needed and everything just went in. Got it all tightened down nicely, the hood shuts fine and the car runs great, so I think it's a problem solved. The 24 is longer, but it's only maybe a tiny amount taller, so it wasn't a problem fitting it in. Finally figured out how Honda's strange battery wiring harness works, too.
 
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Put a NAPA 35 in it, the part number is BAT 8435 and it has 640 CCA.

Be aware that there are low CCA versions of the group 35 that cost less but if it has a low CCA it will not provide the extra ability to start your engine well when it is very cold outside.

You can get new Honda parts at a very good price from Bernardi Parts phone no. 1 800 924 1884 M-F 8 AM - 5 PM EST, Sat 9 - 2 EST

According to a Honda CR-V forum the proper part no. for a 2013 Odyssey box ( I think this is the bottom that goes below the battery and catches any acid that comes down from the battery, but verify this when you buy it) the part no. is 31521 - TK8 - A00

And the part no. for the case that goes around the battery ( and may provide some protection from engine heat ) is 31531 -TK8 - A00

I have not yet done the 51R to 35N upgrade but will probably do it before winter next summer. The 51R in my new to me 2016 was put in it in December 2019 so it is not that old and I expect I can easily make it through the 2020-2021 winter with it.

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I recently used some dark-red scotchbright to clean the terminals and the post on the battery. I had bought one of the duel battery brush cleaners but when I got into the job I realized the corrosion I had to deal with was very little and using the rough brush would have removed too much material. The dark-red scotchbright did a nice job. I cut strips about 1 and 1/2 inch wide and used them rolled up inside the terminals, and then around the posts.

As per some of the YouTube videos: Disconnect the negative first, and put something over it to prevent accidental contact, and use something to prevent the negative terminal form making contact.

When you put it back together, put the Positive back on first.

I used some Corrosion X AVIATION grade on the wires, terminals, and posts after I cleaned the terminals and post with dark-red scotchbright.

I bought the spray can of Corrosion X AVIATION about 20 years ago, and use it very sparingly to prevent electric contacts from corroding and also it is a very good lubricant for small fan motors. It is expensive but it is a very good product. It does have a slight objectionable smell so if you use it where people may smell it, it is a good idea to wipe away any excess.

There are some good YouTube videos on how to clean battery terminals on a CR-V If you take apart the clam-shell plastic parts around the positive and negative terminals you can spray some Corrosion X on the stranded copper wire to help protect it from corroding and thereby prevent what could be a major problem in the future. It is smart to do this on a hot day or in a heated garage if it is winter because the plastic parts are much more likely to flex and not snap (break) while you are inserting small regular screw-driver blades in the snap together sections. If you do break the plastic parts you can get them form Bernardi Parts, but if you work slow with them when they are warm they probably will not break.

Corrosion X AVIATION ( in the blue can) is what is use on the electrical connectors on jet aircraft so it is very good stuff for preventing corrosion and it will not harm plastic or rubber connector parts or wire insulation. I know it is expensive, but I have been sparingly using the only can I bough about 20 years ago and it still has plenty in it. It is a very thin clear liquid and will soak into the stranded copper wire and prevent it from corroding.

You can get Corrosion X AVIATION in a spray can on Amazon.
 
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