Any aquarists in the house?

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
My friend back in the 7th grade had Oscars and he always said they were cousins to the Piranha.

Aside from sharing the same waters in the Amazon they're a distant relative but not close enough to call them a cousin, maybe more like a 3rd cousin. The Oscar is fairly "smart" as far as fish go.. they get to know their owner and can be hand fed and actually taught to do things like swim through rings and such. While they require more space and maintenance than your typical tropical, they're a very rewarding fish to keep that can live a long time for the hobbyist
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by JTK
I carefully clean and apply plumber's grease to the O-rings..

Is plumbers grease not toxic? I would have thought using some kind of food grade grease would be "safer"?
 
The heater placement isnt a bad idea but, the place it is at is bad. Since you have water moving across it its an ok idea, if you didnt the lower the better since heat rises.

What concerns me is If you ever change water or the water drops to low, the heater will be exposed and possibly crack. Would not be good.
Looks like you have the plastic shielded heat, forgot the name, I had one but replaced 1.5 years ago as the plastic converted actually developed hairline cracks.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by JTK
...

Alarmguy, your marine setup is awesome!! I know nothing about marine and the such little water change amount needed intrigues me. I do know nitrates run higher in marine water. Just curious how nitrates and total disolved solids, etc, are maintained..

I do disagree a bit on the Odyssea T5 lighting. I had one of their 48" twin tube T5HOs over my planted 55g for a few years, but the ballast gave up the ghost and a replacement was nearly half of what I paid for the whole fixture. The other issue is the plastic lamp holders get brittle and break off. Not a huge deal as you can rig up other means. Same exact issues happened with a 30" twin tube Odyssea T5HO I had over my 29g. The other issue with T5 lighting over planted tanks is, fluorescent lamps loose their PAR output every minute they're fired up. Given I used them 8hrs/day, every day, I'd need to replace lamps every 6-12 months even they were not even close to being burned out. Not doing so would result in slow plant growth and increased algae growth in freshwater setups.

I guess my point is, if you are starting fresh, buying new, I'd go with decent name brand LED fixtures from Current Satellite, Finnex, Marineland, etc. I replaced my 48" odyssea with a 48" Current Satellite planted + about 5yrs ago. It's been perfect. LEDs obviously loose their PAR output too, but it's a much slower process.


Thanks JTK ...

Yes, maybe I should have pointed out that its possible after a few years for an electronic ballast to give out.
Its almost like those replacement LED and fluorescent bulbs for our homes, "lasts 11 years" yeah right. Unless the circuit board or ballistic gives out.

Over the last 10 years, I did have one give out on my 52 gallon corner.
Now with the 75 I have two new strips.

Ummm ... to each their own on this subject, we all have to do with what is good for us.
All lights will have issues percentage wise. For the cost I feel the Odyssea cant not be beat for, again, a Reef Style tank and they are so darn cheap, add to that the unlimited tube options I have for light spectrum.

Using LEDs and needing the amount of power and proper light spectrum for me is grossly expensive and even then, your taking the manufacturers word for it where with the Odessa I can put the same exact full spectrum tubes the pot growing and agriculture industry uses.

I agree and think I mentioned with fresh water you really can use whatever light you want.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by alarmguy
The heater placement isnt a bad idea but, the place it is at is bad. Since you have water moving across it its an ok idea, if you didnt the lower the better since heat rises.

What concerns me is If you ever change water or the water drops to low, the heater will be exposed and possibly crack. Would not be good.
Looks like you have the plastic shielded heat, forgot the name, I had one but replaced 1.5 years ago as the plastic converted actually developed hairline cracks.


I have mine about mid tank mounted vertically and I have 2 water circulators...a) a submersible filter in the corner moving water horizontally and b) a HOB going all the way to the bottom, stopping short about an inch. This moves the water column vertically. I have a thermometer in the far opposite corner of the heater and it tracks pretty close to the heater thermostat.
 
Originally Posted by alarmguy
The heater placement isnt a bad idea but, the place it is at is bad. Since you have water moving across it its an ok idea, if you didnt the lower the better since heat rises.

What concerns me is If you ever change water or the water drops to low, the heater will be exposed and possibly crack. Would not be good.
Looks like you have the plastic shielded heat, forgot the name, I had one but replaced 1.5 years ago as the plastic converted actually developed hairline cracks.



I unplug the heater when I do water changes... Forgot once and killed a previous heater! I did read some horror stories about this heater after I had bought it and got everything set up, so I'm keeping a close eye on it.
 
Originally Posted by Skippy722


I unplug the heater when I do water changes... Forgot once and killed a previous heater! I did read some horror stories about this heater after I had bought it and got everything set up, so I'm keeping a close eye on it.


Yeah, for sure on the heaters. They go Chernobyl hot instantly when not submerged. Probably the #1 killer of heaters. The other heater killer (in my opinion) is when you submerge the dial end. Sure they say they're "fully submersible", but water eventually gets in them.

I keep all my filtration and heaters plugged into a power strip that I turn off during water changes. My lights are all plugged into cheap lamp timers plugged into separate outlets.
 
Originally Posted by JTK
Originally Posted by Skippy722


I unplug the heater when I do water changes... Forgot once and killed a previous heater! I did read some horror stories about this heater after I had bought it and got everything set up, so I'm keeping a close eye on it.


Yeah, for sure on the heaters. They go Chernobyl hot instantly when not submerged. Probably the #1 killer of heaters. The other heater killer (in my opinion) is when you submerge the dial end. Sure they say they're "fully submersible", but water eventually gets in them.

I keep all my filtration and heaters plugged into a power strip that I turn off during water changes. My lights are all plugged into cheap lamp timers plugged into separate outlets.


Chernobyl hot is correct... I turned mine off to move it yesterday, pulled it out of the water, and got a nice burn! But I'll put it back with the dial up, never had issues with water getting into my previous ones, why start now lol
 
If you buy a UL listed heater you don't have to worry about it's suitability to be submerged as it's been tested for operation under water. Same goes for submersible pumps. That's one of the drawbacks of buying a cheap, Chinese knockoff.

As a rule you should always plug into a circuit breaking strip or GFI... and put a loop or dip in the cord if possible, if the power source is lower than the device.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
If you buy a UL listed heater you don't have to worry about it's suitability to be submerged as it's been tested for operation under water. Same goes for submersible pumps..


I get that and I agree.

What I find is the controls/knobs get frozen in place if the whole thing is left submerged for a long time and the heaters just stop working quicker. My water chemistry or luck maybe? If I leave the business end of the heater out of the water, they last much longer.

It's really no matter because if you buy name brand heaters or some house brands, they come with lifetime warranties. Just save the box and receipt. All it takes is one email or phone call and a new one gets mailed to your house. I've got spares galore because of those warranties.

Way back almost 40yrs ago when I started in this hobby, heaters were attached with a thumb screw to the rim of the tank. I've actually still seen some like that available at Pet Supplies Plus IIRC.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by alarmguy
The heater placement isnt a bad idea but, the place it is at is bad. Since you have water moving across it its an ok idea, if you didnt the lower the better since heat rises.

What concerns me is If you ever change water or the water drops to low, the heater will be exposed and possibly crack. Would not be good.
Looks like you have the plastic shielded heat, forgot the name, I had one but replaced 1.5 years ago as the plastic converted actually developed hairline cracks.



I unplug the heater when I do water changes... Forgot once and killed a previous heater! I did read some horror stories about this heater after I had bought it and got everything set up, so I'm keeping a close eye on it.


Is it a Aqueon Pro?
Well made solid looking heater, plastic jacketed steel. I was impressed with it, until I switched from the 52 gallon to 75 gallon tank and noticed the plastic covering had hairline cracks.
Anyway, for the first time in my life I bought a Eheim Jager Heater, always wanted to try one even though except that Aqueon above I never had any issue with any brand heater I ever bought and we are again, going back decades. Im really happy with the Eheim, actually could not be more happy, works as it should and accurate.

I have all my pumps and heater on one power strip, so I just flip the switch when I do water changes, though my heater is deep enough it wouldn't be affected by a simple water change. ( see JTK does the same after reading up a few posts)
Then on the other power strip I have my two timers for the lights. One set/fixture (2- t5 HO) come on @ 1:30pm and Off at 8:30pm, the other set comes on at 4:30pm and off at 10:30pm this sort of simulates 4 hours of midday sun when both are on for the 4 hour period at the same time and just 2 on before that time and 2 on after that time.

A lot of better heaters now have safety shut offs if the water drops too. low, though I dont plan on ever testing it and never paid much attention as to any particular brand had it or not and honestly dont know if it would work if sideways?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by JTK
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
If you buy a UL listed heater you don't have to worry about it's suitability to be submerged as it's been tested for operation under water. Same goes for submersible pumps..


...

Way back almost 40yrs ago when I started in this hobby, heaters were attached with a thumb screw to the rim of the tank. I've actually still seen some like that available at Pet Supplies Plus IIRC.


Wow, you remember those heaters too? ! !
Man thinking back in time, some of that stuff was freaky dangerous.
 
Yeah it's an Aqueon Pro 300w. I'll be keeping an eye on it for sure. But bad news.... Oscar died sometime between me leaving for work and getting home, and Blue was gasping at the surface.
cry.gif
Did a water change and Blue is doing much much better, running out to get a new test kit ASAP.
 
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Yeah it's an Aqueon Pro 300w. I'll be keeping an eye on it for sure. But bad news.... Oscar died sometime between me leaving for work and getting home, and Blue was gasping at the surface.
cry.gif
Did a water change and Blue is doing much much better, running out to get a new test kit ASAP.

What?...¨..let us know what the water parameters are. With that size tank you should have enough dissolved oxygen in the water for several days. Did you acclimate them to the water temp prior to placing them in the tank? Wonder what your pH is... toxicity of ammonia and nitrates rises as pH lowers IIRC. Maybe your pH crashed due to low alkilinity? Doesn't take much change in pH to kill some fish species and if I'm not mistaken Cichlids prefer a higher, alkaline pH of about 8. Make sure you test ammonia too.
 
Last edited:
Oh no!

The stress from a move can weaken their immune system.

Sorry if it's been asked, but are you using something like the API master test kit that can measure for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in PPM?

Like said, thats a decent volume of water for these 2 smaller fish, so you'd think an ammonia or nitrite spike would be unlikely. A rapid and large pH swing will kill them quickly. I'm assuming you didn't move too far, so the tap water pH is the same between the two places.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by JTK
Oh no!

The stress from a move can weaken their immune system.

Sorry if it's been asked, but are you using something like the API master test kit that can measure for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in PPM?

Like said, thats a decent volume of water for these 2 smaller fish, so you'd think an ammonia or nitrite spike would be unlikely. A rapid and large pH swing will kill them quickly. I'm assuming you didn't move too far, so the tap water pH is the same between the two places.

Since ammonia is naturally alkaline, even a slight shift in pH can change harmless ammonium levels to the more harmful ammonia. Plus ammonia toxicity increases with temp. I wonder if the water heater placement had anything to do with it??? But I think you're right that it's too much water to see a spike like that so soon..but who knows, I've seen weird things happen.


I have test strips for qwikie checks and the master kit for more precision if things don't look right.
 
Last edited:
pH: 7.8
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Water temp is 79F no matter where I checked.

I did a 50% change last night, so the ammonia levels were likely far higher. I added some ammolock and topped off the tank today with about 5 gallons. I lowered the level to make the output splash just in case there wasn't enough oxygen. Also picked up an air pump and bubble wand.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter

Since ammonia is naturally alkaline, even a slight shift in pH can change harmless ammonium levels to the more harmful ammonia. Plus ammonia toxicity increases with temp. I wonder if the water heater placement had anything to do with it??? But I think you're right that it's too much water to see a spike like that so soon..but who knows......


That's true, especially since this is a new uncycled setup. I'm assuming no substrate or filtration media was carried over from the old tank.

Skippy, what do you use for a dechlor/water treatment? I like seachem prime or the granular form, safe. It does a lot more than dechlor and a little goes a long way with them.

0.25ppm ammonia is common if chloramine is used for your municipal water treatment as opposed to chlorine.
 
Last edited:
API makes fine products but I'm partial to Seachem and Kordon Amquel Plus when it comes to detoxifiers...but I'm sure Ammolock does a good job; API knows what they're doing.

If your fish were healthy prior to rehoming and by all accounts they were, right?...i personally only know of 2, maybe 3, things that can kill a fish so suddenly and that's toxic shock from ammonia and pH. The 3rd is something I've only ever read about and never personally seen and that's stray currents from an electrical device from something like a submersible water pump or heater.

Btw.. the only "safe" level of ammonia is 0. If the Oscar was stressed from rehoming, even a .25ppm lvl could be deadly. Get that ammonia down. Run some zeolite maybe, use the Ammolock and pick up some Fluval or similar bio kickstarter. Test test test...but keep in mind that your ammonia lvls could still test high even after using the Ammolock because I'm pretty sure the API master kit can't discriminate between harmless ammonium and ammonia. Ammolock I believe converts the toxic ammonia to ammonium..if IIRC.

Stray voltages..

https://www.thesprucepets.com/curing-stray-voltage-in-saltwater-aquarium-2924174
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top