Anti Drainback Failures on OEM honda filters

[boiler21]

I've found that the drainback valves have been failing on the past three OEM honda filters I've used in the past year. I check the oil after parking it overnight and dipstick shows 3/4 full. Turn the car on for 30 seconds and wait a minute, then the dipstick shows almost below the lower mark. Assuming this has to be a drainback issue.

Before I assume this is due to the poor construction of the honeywell OEM filter, could this be caused by anything else? Could there be built up sludge or something to cause this?

 

[dishdude]

I think the issue is that you aren't letting the oil drain back into the sump before pulling the dipstick.

Why even bother with rebadged Fram junk? The ADV seals against cardboard.

 

[ThirdeYe]

I haven't had any issues with the Fram version of that filter, the 7317. I used a Tough Guard which is pretty much the same as the Honda OEM A02 and I had no issues with it at all. I've used the A01 and the HAMP which are also OEM filters, and had no issues with the ADBV on those either... 1 minute isn't long enough for the oil to drain back to the sump.

 

[beast3300]

Running a cold engine for 30 secs and expecting to get a good reading on the dipstick isn't gonna happen. This experiment will fail on 99.9% of any brand engine/engine oil/engine oil filter.

 

[boiler21]

Forgot to mention that the oil filters are dry when I pull them.

How long do you recommend me to wait after turning off the car to check the dipstick? Never have issues when doing this after an oil change.

 

[dishdude]

Wait 5 mins to pull the dipstick.

Are you pulling off the filter when it is stone cold and has been sitting overnight?

 

[beast3300]

Originally Posted By: boiler21
Forgot to mention that the oil filters are dry when I pull them.

How long do you recommend me to wait after turning off the car to check the dipstick? Never have issues when doing this after an oil change.


The filter will be empty on any brand you pick. It's a horizontally mounted filter with a slight upward tilt.

If your changing your oil, refilling, and the engine is still pretty warm then you should get a decent reading after a few minutes.

In general if it sits 1/4 qt low at THAT point then I don't add additionally. After 30 mins or longer then that reading should be taken as very accurate.

I always take an overnight (or 8hr) cold sitting engine as the most correct oil reading. (This is of course sitting on level ground and the engine was at full op temp when shut down the night before.)

 

[boiler21]

On the last three filters, I pulled two of them 2 hours after turning off the car and one 14 hours. All three were dry. I suspect the one on the car now would do the same thing.

Honda OEM, bought from Majestic Honda. Obviously, not going to use OEM anymore, but wanted to see if there could be other issues.

 

[boiler21]

Originally Posted By: beast3300
Originally Posted By: boiler21
Forgot to mention that the oil filters are dry when I pull them.

How long do you recommend me to wait after turning off the car to check the dipstick? Never have issues when doing this after an oil change.


The filter will be empty on any brand you pick. It's a horizontally mounted filter with a slight upward tilt.

If your changing your oil, refilling, and the engine is still pretty warm then you should get a decent reading after a few minutes.

In general if it sits 1/4 qt low at THAT point then I don't add additionally. After 30 mins or longer then that reading should be taken as very accurate.

I always take an overnight (or 8hr) cold sitting engine as the most correct oil reading. (This is of course sitting on level ground and the engine was at full op temp when shut down the night before.)


So the thirty oil filters I changed before where oil would run down my arm when removing the filter was not normal??

 

[dishdude]

The filter should be heavy, messy and full of oil IMO!

 

[bepperb]

This is not a filter issue. This is a user issue.

 

[emaax]

its not the filters

usually the engine of my car knock during the first second or 2 of the 1st cold start of the day

what happened to me ons say is that ... i that i decided for some reason to change the filter witout changing the oil
it had to do with having reached that same conclusion you did

antidrainback valve not working

so .. for my surprise after in the day before having stoped the wngine while it was fully warmed-up and leaving the car until the next day... more than 12 hours with engine stoped
when i unscrewed the oil filter i expected to see som oil pouring out to the floor... but no
it was completely dry
not a single drop felt when I removed the filter

so i changed filters but no use Mahle OC 196 seem to be have better valve but.. no use.. some days I have knock or valve train noise and others dont.

my conclusion about this is... still a guess
the oil drains down through one of the rod bearings if not one of the main bearing caps of the crankshaft

as the filter is mounted horizontaly there is no way to prevent oil starvation everyday

when some of the worm rods stops on a lower position all the oil comes down through it thought the main bearings and from all the way from oil filter and block and head galeys.


i will try to fabricate a oil adapter that allows me to mount the filter verticaly
or find some aftermarket remote oil filter mount with which we are able to positions the filter verticaly
think it will do the job...

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe
1 minute isn't long enough for the oil to drain back to the sump.
+1 Especially after 30sec. warm up only.

Don't sweat it. Both the A-01 and A-02 have the better silicone adbv and should be fine. Just check your fluid level cold or hot (after a brief wait) occasionally, and don't worry about the adbv.

 

[emaax]

that tech of looking at the dipstick...
well your right... you are suposed to see some diference
but it is irrelevant

what is fact is the oil filters get dry indeed
not a single drop

problem is worn bearings in the engine "main guts"

 

[boiler21]

If over a quart is still stranded in the head a full minute after shutting the car off...what happens when the car is running? Seems like it would pump all 4qts into the head and it would never have time to drain down. I dunno, I'm just a stupid engineer...

 

[Silver02ex]

Originally Posted By: boiler21
I've found that the drainback valves have been failing on the past three OEM honda filters I've used in the past year. I check the oil after parking it overnight and dipstick shows 3/4 full. Turn the car on for 30 seconds and wait a minute, then the dipstick shows almost below the lower mark. Assuming this has to be a drainback issue.

Before I assume this is due to the poor construction of the honeywell OEM filter, could this be caused by anything else? Could there be built up sludge or something to cause this?



It's not the filter, I have this issue also with any brand of filter.

 

[Steve S]

The oil may be draining through the crank bearings. I had an 88 Toyota Camry with a 4 cyl that would reguardless of filter always have an empty filter after sitting overnight. I would change the filter then and get no oil mess .

 

[boiler21]

Interesting. This car is 10yrs old so worn bearings is a possibility. Is there any sources that back up this process? I dont seem to see anyone else claiming a link between bearing wear and dry filters.

 

[Jim Allen]

I also have a 10 year old Honda (Accord V6) and have used Honda filters in the past. Mine always had oil in them, even though not much drained out when I first removed them. I have a filter draining rack (aka a Chock-Full-o-Nuts coffee can with an old fan adapter in the bottom), where I let filters drool for a month or so before I take them for recycling. There is always a coupla cups or so of oil in the can after they drain well. Boiler 21, no insult intended, but could you be mistaking "no oil" for oil that being held in the filter by the ADBV? Have you actually upended on and let it drain into a can for a while? Or upended it and poked at the ADBV through the holes to open it?

 

[boiler21]

Funny you ask. Upon finding the second dry filter I took a dremel to it. The space between the filter media and the outer casing had oil in it. The center space was bone dry.

Since the oil flows from the outside cavity to the inside, I suspected this to be a drainback valve fail....but really, if it was the entire filter would be dry because the antidrainback flap is located at the entrance to the filter. Left me wondering and one of the reasons why i posted here.

Did a blackstone oil analysis (very careful about properly sampling) and everything came back sparkling good.