Another non-synthetic 0w-20

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Yes, Honda has had house brands in both full syn and blend 0W-20 since they introduced their COP made oils. That's slicing the market pretty thin, isn't it? Your thread begs the question for 0W-20 oil users (I now have two late model OE 0W-20 engines): Is saving a couple of bucks a quart ENOUGH for you to use a lower quality oil in your baby?
 
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The Critic

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Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Yes, Honda has had house brands in both full syn and blend 0W-20 since they introduced their COP made oils. That's slicing the market pretty thin, isn't it? Your thread begs the question for 0W-20 oil users (I now have two late model OE 0W-20 engines): Is saving a couple of bucks a quart ENOUGH for you to use a lower quality oil in your baby?
As of now, Honda/CP and Valvoline Durablend were the only ones with a non-syn 0w-20. Now Castrol has entered the market in that area.
 
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Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Your thread begs the question for 0W-20 oil users (I now have two late model OE 0W-20 engines): Is saving a couple of bucks a quart ENOUGH for you to use a lower quality oil in your baby?
Castrol already offers a 0W-20 in their Edge line; I've seen it at Advance Auto. I didn't notice the price; it likely carries a huge premium there. If Castrol can get this GTX 0W-20 in a jug on the shelves at major discount retailers, for $20/jug, then it should be a great value. "Synthetic" and "semi-synthetic" are largely marketing terms anyway, especially because we don't know the actual blended ratios of the base stocks.
 
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Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
If Castrol can get this GTX 0W-20 in a jug on the shelves at major discount retailers, for $20/jug, then it should be a great value. "Synthetic" and "semi-synthetic" are largely marketing terms anyway, especially because we don't know the actual blended ratios of the base stocks.
And this gets to the root of my question. My new Toyota V6 comes with TGMO full syn 0W-20 along with a 10,000 mile OCI. I wonder if Toyota says the design and performance differences beyween full syn and semi-blends don't matter. Note that Toyota specifically advises reducing the OCI in HALF when 5W-20 (presumably conventional) is used. I have no doubt that the cheapest 0W-20 available will find it's way into these engines and I wonder if Toyota engineers left enough safety margin in the performance of blends to go the full OCI. IMHO, 10,000 miles is pushing the envelope for any oil when designers HAVE NO CLUE how the vehicle is driven every day. Now, they are reducing the margin for shear and viscosity deterioration. Some one is going to take this too far.
 
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Obviously, 0w20 can be blended without needing to use mostly synthetic base stocks
I'm not so sure about this. You do need mostly syn base oils. From Mobil.com FAQ: 10. Are all 0W-20 viscosity oils synthetics? Yes. The 0W-20 viscosity grade requires synthetic-base oils to meet low-temperature performance standards. >>back Most if not all 0w20's are synthetic. I am not sure if I believe you can make a 0w20 blend of mostly GrpII+.
 
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Originally Posted By: Indydriver
And this gets to the root of my question. My new Toyota V6 comes with TGMO full syn 0W-20 along with a 10,000 mile OCI. I wonder if Toyota says the design and performance differences beyween full syn and semi-blends don't matter. Note that Toyota specifically advises reducing the OCI in HALF when 5W-20 (presumably conventional) is used. I have no doubt that the cheapest 0W-20 available will find it's way into these engines and I wonder if Toyota engineers left enough safety margin in the performance of blends to go the full OCI.
Right now, the "cheapest 0W-20 available" is Mobil 1 AFE 0W-20, if by cheapest you mean most inexpensive. Now, if by cheapest you mean the poorest quality, I revert back to my belief that the differences in "synthetic" and "semi-synthetic" are largely in marketing, and anything meeting the 0W-20 specification is going to have very good performance properties. And for another data point, Hondas are out there doing 10k mile OCIs on conventional 5W-20. I'd say that even the worst quality 0W-20 out there will be sufficient for Toyota's 10k mile OCIs.
 
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Indydriver: ILSAC GF-5 "conventional" must beat a PAO synthethic standard test oil in fuel mileage and must also be OLM capable and pass TEOST deposit test (for turbo and ring area deposits) in the heavier grades. So what is compromised? And what would be the "real" higher group(iv+v)synthetic you are buying that's not a specialty or racing product? Amsoil Signature? I cant think of ANY major player currently that advertises as "fully synthtetic" that uses only group iv and higher.
 
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Indydriver: ILSAC GF-5 "conventional" must beat a PAO synthethic standard test oil in fuel mileage and must also be OLM capable and pass TEOST deposit test (for turbo and ring area deposits) in the heavier grades. So what is compromised? And what would be the "real" higher group(iv+v)synthetic you are buying that's not a specialty or racing product? Amsoil Signature? I cant think of ANY major player currently that advertises as "fully synthtetic" that uses only group iv and higher.
Are you saying that you believe there is no performance difference in the 0W-20 viscosity between an oil marketed as "full synthetic" and one priced two bucks lower labeled "synthetic blend" (within brand)?
 
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Nice to see another option in the 0W-20 grade. Castrol now has 3 0W-20's - they have Edge 0W-20, Edge w/SPT (black bottle) 0W-20, and Syntec Blend 0W-20. However, I doubt we will ever see it up here, we still only have a tiny bit of Edge 0W-20 up here, no mainstream stores carry it.
 
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Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Indydriver: ILSAC GF-5 "conventional" must beat a PAO synthethic standard test oil in fuel mileage and must also be OLM capable and pass TEOST deposit test (for turbo and ring area deposits) in the heavier grades. So what is compromised? And what would be the "real" higher group(iv+v)synthetic you are buying that's not a specialty or racing product? Amsoil Signature? I cant think of ANY major player currently that advertises as "fully synthtetic" that uses only group iv and higher.
Are you saying that you believe there is no performance difference in the 0W-20 viscosity between an oil marketed as "full synthetic" and one priced two bucks lower labeled "synthetic blend" (within brand)?
Maybe a marginal cold crank improvement and hopefully a small VI improvement. Otherwise they meet the same spec.
 
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Hokie "I'd say that even the worst quality 0W-20 out there will be sufficient for Toyota's 10k mile OCIs" (Hokiefyd). I bet that Peak 0W20 wouldn't make it to a 10kOCI without some significant wear. Have you seen the VOA on that stuff, yuck!
 

The Critic

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Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
Me, I face a $80 bill for Subaru syn 0-20 for my 2012 Forester at the stealer. Guess what I am going to do???
You should find a Honda dealer that services all makes/models. I've found that nearly every Honda dealer only has a $10-$15 up charge for the 0w-20 blend, while almost every Toyota dealer has a $30 up charge. It doesn't make much sense, does it?
 
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Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Your thread begs the question for 0W-20 oil users (I now have two late model OE 0W-20 engines): Is saving a couple of bucks a quart ENOUGH for you to use a lower quality oil in your baby?
Castrol already offers a 0W-20 in their Edge line; I've seen it at Advance Auto. I didn't notice the price; it likely carries a huge premium there. If Castrol can get this GTX 0W-20 in a jug on the shelves at major discount retailers, for $20/jug, then it should be a great value. "Synthetic" and "semi-synthetic" are largely marketing terms anyway, especially because we don't know the actual blended ratios of the base stocks.
Competition in the 0W-20 space is good for prices. One (of several) local W-Ms now has QSUD 0W-20 priced at $20.47 for a five quart jug. Two years ago when I first started needing 0W-20, my options were individual quart bottles of M1 AFE - nothing else.
 
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Few years ago only 0W20 can be found at local parts store and Walmart was M1 AFE. Now many brands and syn/syn-blend 0W20 are available, this competition will keep the price of 0W20 low.
 

Patman

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Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Right now, the "cheapest 0W-20 available" is Mobil 1 AFE 0W-20, if by cheapest you mean most inexpensive.
Not true, Toyota 0w20 is less expensive that M1 0w20.
 
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