Amsoil Filter Failure

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jun 9, 2003
Messages
74
Location
Ontario, Canada
I'm a new member here, but thought you may be interested in a failure of an Amsoil Filter I had on my 2003 Honda Accord. It was an SDF20. As it turns out I should have used a SDF13, but there still seems to be a design problem.
I've posted pictures and info from Amsoil at this site.

edit out link

I also cut open several filters in a previous post at this site.
Would be interested to see what you folks think of the failure.

 -


 -


 -


2003 Acura MDX
2003 Accord 4cyl 5 spd
1969 Barracuda 340
1970 Superbird 440 6bbl

[ June 10, 2003, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
 
I had to edit out your direct link to that other forum, as it's against our policy here.

If you don't mind, could you repost your story on this forum, with the pictures too? It's just easier than having people click on a link to a seperate forum.

Thanks, and welcome to a fellow Ontarian!
 
Patman

Sorry - didnt realize you could not link. It is much less work to cross link- however, I'll repost the info here.
One question- how do I append photos to a post? I cant find the size limits etc
 
Thanks for adding the photos!!! You guys are fast!! I'd still like to know how to do it.

I've also attached some e-mail correspondence with Amsoil Technical Services.

The above are 3 photos of an Amsoil SDF20 oil filter that I just removed from our 2003 Accord (same filter as MDX) and cut open. As you can see - the element failed catastrophically!!! It appears to me that the element cannot handle the pressure drop across the filter under some conditions and has collapsed. The bypass relief valve was functional and not stuck.
The inner screen failed and the paper element ripped apart and it is clearly evident that it allowed unfiltered oil to enter the engine!!!
The filter had been on the vehicle since Dec 15, 2002 and had seen 7462 KM (4664Miles)
It was on the vehicle during some very cold weather this winter (-40) and this may have been a factor - but obviously I cant tell now.
In my other thread, I thought that Amsoil filters were well designed - but I was obviously wrong.
No more Amsoil filters for me!!!! (I installed a Fram X2 filter for now)
I later found out that the 2003 Accord is supposed to use a SDF13. Thinking that that may have been a cause of the filter, I advised Amsoil and this is their reply:
"I guess we didn’t get a chance to jump right on your issue the morning you sent it in because our server was down for a while and when the gates opened and someone saw the words “catastrophic failure” and the heads had to get together to look at the issue. While, I guess nobody stopped to think to check the usage application. Kind’a a first things first approach to problem solving. Anyway, about the time we get it altogether your second e-mail arrives and yes…. there is a difference in the filters although they will fit similar applications.

The filters use the same media but SDF13 has a lower pressure differential operating range for the by pass valve than the SDF20. Perhaps under “normal temperature” conditions (some thing warmer than 40 below) you may not have not had a media separation with the SDF20, but at that temp and the psid difference your Honda was pushing the SDF20 to its max.


Thanks for getting to us as soon as you did so we didn’t spend a lot of resources digging into the issue.
AMSOIL Technical Services
I then asked them about the differences between the SDF13 and 20 and this is the reply:
I asked Amsoil about the differences between these 2 filters and this is the reply:
"The SDF13 has a by-pass valve differential pressure range of 12-16 lbs. with an OD of 2.56” and a height of 2.625”. The SDF20 has a by-pass differential pressure of 18-20 lbs. and has a 2.92” diameter with a height of 3.451”. "

My next question was:
"Being an Engineer- I now have to ask you the really hard question!!! Why would the filter bypass on the SDF20 open at a pressure at or close to the element collapse pressure under very cold conditions? I would have expected a few psi of margin??"

Amsoil reply

"Filter design parameters follow the basic concept of your question. It is unclear what caused the failure; the by-pass valve, the by-pass valve differential pressure range, the viscosity of the engine lubricant, the media itself, or the incorrect application. It has been my experience that nothing seems to perform as expected at 40 below.

AMSOIL Technical Services"
 
PatMan

At the same web site, I had posted photos of 11 different oil filters that I cut open. There are 66 photos in total.
I can repost them all here if you think it is worthwhile - and if you tell me how to do it!!!
 
I assume you mean -40°C.

So what oil were you using?

Assuming the oil was in fully flowaable mode, it's difficult for me to say if it's a design flaw or a manufacturing error.

The center of Amsoil filters seems pretty stout, but it looks as if it went at the attachment point. What does your dealer say?
 
quote:

Originally posted by Pablo:
I assume you mean -40°C.

It really doesn't matter whether he meant Celsius or Fahrenheit, since at -40 they are equal (-40°C = -40°F).
pat.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by RealWing:
PatMan

At the same web site, I had posted photos of 11 different oil filters that I cut open. There are 66 photos in total.
I can repost them all here if you think it is worthwhile - and if you tell me how to do it!!!


It should be the same as when posting to other boards, simply put the image location in between these codes:


I'm curious though, why did you switch that car over to a Fram X2? I think the K&N is a better choice as it's one very durable filter and can definitely handle the high flow.

By the way, how did you know this filter failed? Or did you not find out until you cut it open?
 
RealWing,

What oil?

At -40 I'd only consider running a 0W oil and even then expect trouble. That's too cold for machinery and most people. Was the engine kept warm when not driving? Oil pan heater in addition to a water jacket heater? The filter shouldn't have failed, but you put it to a real test.


Ken
 
When was the filter taken off as well? You mentioned the install date, but not when it was removed. There is a 6 month time interval on the filter as well. Combined with the cold weather, wrong application and usage interval, the filter may have been pushed beyond it's design limits. I'm also curious as to how you new it had failed.
 
It would appear to me that the oil took the path of least resistance. What caused the sudden pressure, most likely could have been the cold.

It could be a manf. defect, these are made by automated machines but I would thing its more the temperature, that is logical. I once broke a rubber floor mat like it was a piece of glass at -30°.

At least the can did not fail or you would have lost all the oil and maybe the engine.


All the more reason to use the correct application filter. Pay attention you people who are experimenting with larger filters. Just because it fits does not mean it works.

What oil and viscosity was in at the time?
 
The top of the core is not potted. It is completely loose. I believe I noted that in my permeability test report. Poor mfg tolerances or just bad design.
 
A wild guess is the bypass valve stuck from the cold. I'm not sticking up for Amsoil but any fitler can fail like that. There is discussion of the benefits of the bypass valve location may avoid this problem?
 
quote:

Originally posted by Pablo:
Jason - interesting observation. I could see how this couldn't happen on a filter with the by-pass right at the outlet threads.

It could if the valve failed to open because it was "stuck" from the severe cold (-40). If the valve failed to open, the element would colapse at its weakest point, which appears to be what happened here.
 
Yeah G-man on the temp - shoulda remembered that (pretty scary that I didn't) !! Thanks. -40° is just stinkin' cold.

Still haven't seen what oil he was using.

As far as where the by-pass is located, in filters (Amsoil's SDF-34, 15, Ford FL-1A, etc) that are made as Ford says, the bypass coil spring and mechanism is right at the inlet. The crush as it appears in the lower picture wouldn't have happened that way in that type of filter. mainly because this mechanism structure is so robust and mechanically the reinforcement is much more. Not saying another path may have been created!

[ June 11, 2003, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom