AMSoil Bypass filter replacement question

[BruceM]

I've been running an AMSoil dual remote system for a little over a year now, and it has seen a little over recomended miles for the bypass filter. I'm gonna be changing the engine in the car, and when I do I was gonna sell off the dual remote setup, and go with a single added bypass filter and a regular spin on filter in the factory location. I don't like that flow restrictor there in the dual setup.

Anyhow, my BE-90 filter isn't really getting all that warm anymore, and I have been running dino oil of late cause of the impending change of the engine, so I was thinking of spinning the BE-90 off and finding a regulare oil filter to spin on there. I'm a big fan of the supertech filters, and was wondering if anyone knows a cross reference for the thread and style of the BE-90 to a regular off the shelf full flow filter? I think the remote loaction is such a nice thing to have, and I don't feel like spending the money on a new BE-90 for the system right now, especially since the engine is gonna get dumped and the setup will be different in about 4 months.

Thanks

 

[therion]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BruceM:
I've been running an AMSoil dual remote system for a little over a year now, and it has seen a little over recomended miles for the bypass filter. I'm gonna be changing the engine in the car, and when I do I was gonna sell off the dual remote setup, and go with a single added bypass filter and a regular spin on filter in the factory location. I don't like that flow restrictor there in the dual setup.

Anyhow, my BE-90 filter isn't really getting all that warm anymore, and I have been running dino oil of late cause of the impending change of the engine, so I was thinking of spinning the BE-90 off and finding a regulare oil filter to spin on there. I'm a big fan of the supertech filters, and was wondering if anyone knows a cross reference for the thread and style of the BE-90 to a regular off the shelf full flow filter? I think the remote loaction is such a nice thing to have, and I don't feel like spending the money on a new BE-90 for the system right now, especially since the engine is gonna get dumped and the setup will be different in about 4 months.

Thanks

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The filter is probably plugged with junk if you didnt change it often.

Why cant you just buy new fittings and hoses and reuse it??

 

[mangusta1969]

BruceM

The specs on the BE90 filter are as follows:

Threads: 1 inch x 16 threads/in
Height: 5.75 inches
Diameter: 4.25 inches
Gasket OD: 2.81 inches
Gasket ID: 2.46 inches
No Bypass valve, but the filter has an anti-drainback valve.

The slightly larger BE100 filter has the same dimensions, except the filter height is 7.375 inches.

I think the large 1 inch/16 threads/in fitting in a filter this size makes it sort of an unusual filter. I only know of one electronic filter catalog that lets you enter filter dimensions. It is for German Mann filters and is located here:

http://www.mann-hummel.com/mf_prodk...tlg_lang=1&ktlg_07_pdartg=O&ktlg_07_fifog=420

Unfortunately, the Mann catalog has no cross-referenced filters for these Amsoil bypass filters. Note: to use the Mann site, you have to convert inch dimensions to millimeters (1 inch=25.4mm).

Perhaps you can use the dimensions above with some auto part store print catalogs and look up some matching truck or fork lift applications/filters for the BE90/BE100 filters.

If you continue to use the bypass element on the dual element filter, you cannot just remove the internal valve spring in the filter housing, as Greencrew has suggested. As I understand the spring/valve design, this spring pressure on an internal valve is needed to create a small pressure differential within the housing. Without the pressure differential, all of the oil flow would just go through the lower restriction full flow filter element and no oil would flow through the bypass element.

I agree with you that the differential pressure spring design is a questionable design compromise and that your engine would be better off with a separate single element bypass filter housing. If the differential pressure valve assembly has a large diameter (around 1/2 inch or larger) opening, then its flow restriction for your full flow filter/engine would not be too bad.

I have been unable to obtain any design information from Amsoil on this valve design (opening pressure, full open pressure, effective oil passage size when open, etc.). If anyone has this information, posting it here would be useful.

 

[greencrew]

quote:

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Originally posted by mangusta1969:
BruceM

If you continue to use the bypass element on the dual element filter, you cannot just remove the internal valve spring in the filter housing, as Greencrew has suggested. As I understand the spring/valve design, this spring pressure on an internal valve is needed to create a small pressure differential within the housing. Without the pressure differential, all of the oil flow would just go through the lower restriction full flow filter element and no oil would flow through the bypass element.

I agree with you that the differential pressure spring design is a questionable design compromise and that your engine would be better off with a separate single element bypass filter housing.

---

My Frantz filter did not have a internal valve spring, and oil flowed through the by-pass filter just fine. It used a basic sandwich adapter with an in and out port. The filter was mounted upside down on top of the engine, and I had to allow it to cool before changing it.

With out the spring valve the design is the same as any other bypass setup with a sandwich adapter. Either that or there is a spring in the Frantz sandwich adapter and I just didn't know it.

Besides, if his BE90 is full it's not going to flow oil through it anyhow.

[ February 01, 2004, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: greencrew ]

 

[Gary Allan]

They're the same size as the Cummins diesel filters. Identical in size and thread.

 

[mangusta1969]

Greencrew,

What type of sandwich adapter plate are you using? I don't think it is a Frantz unit.

The Frantz web site only shows sandwich plates with a single oil fitting. With this approach, the oil flows from the fitting to the Frantz filter, then the return oil flow from the filter is piped to the oil pan or to the valve cover area.

If you are using something like a Permacool sandwich adapter with two oil fittings in the plate, there is also an internal valve. The two port adapter plates I am familiar with were all designed for use with an external oil cooler (extremely low flow restriction/high flow rate) and not for an external bypass filter (high flow restriction/low flow rate). For comparison, an external oil cooler should flow above 5-10 gallons per minute, while a typical bypass filter is flowing only .25 gpm through the bypass element and a small flow restriction orifice, which is part of the bypass filter design.

The purpose of the bypass valve in the Permacool adapter is to prevent engine damage in case the external oil cooler becomes plugged up with engine debris (e.g. valve train failure). It is also probably open at startup, when the oil is very thick due to low temperature and cannot easily flow through the smaller oil passages in the oil cooler.

If it were my engine, I would install (at least temporarily) an oil pressure gauge on the engine to verify that my oil pressure remained at good levels. An old rule of thumb is that you want to see about 10 psi for every 1000 rpm of engine speed, subject to the maximum limit of your engine's internal pressure bypass valve (typically 50-80 psi). You need to make certain that the pressure is being measured AFTER the full flow filter/bypass filter. Ideally, you want to measure the oil pressure as it enters the main bearing oil galleys.

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

You can remove the internal spring arrangement. By so doing, the flow through the (clean) bypass element will be reduced from about 20% to about 15%. This info from AMSOIL. This is a recommended procedure when throbbing from the fuel pump is transmitted to the vehicle in some installations.

If your bypass element is plugged, and no longer passing oil, leaving it in place won't make any difference.

As mentioned, the filter for the Dodge Cummins turbodiesel has the proper threading and gaskets.
That' if you must change...

Incidently, have found lawn services with Dixie Choppers using the replacement filters in place of the AMSOIL Bypass element factory installed on the top-of-the=line machines. They feel they are saving a bundle---all they are losing is the extra filtration which lets the smarter ones run for hundreds more hours on the engine.

 

[slider]

quote:

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Originally posted by mangusta1969:
Greencrew,


The purpose of the bypass valve in the Permacool adapter is to prevent engine damage in case the external oil cooler becomes plugged up with engine debris (e.g. valve train failure). It is also probably open at startup, when the oil is very thick due to low temperature and cannot easily flow through the smaller oil passages in the oil cooler.

If it were my engine, I would install (at least temporarily) an oil pressure gauge on the engine to verify that my oil pressure remained at good levels. An old rule of thumb is that you want to see about 10 psi for every 1000 rpm of engine speed, subject to the maximum limit of your engine's internal pressure bypass valve (typically 50-80 psi). You need to make certain that the pressure is being measured AFTER the full flow filter/bypass filter. Ideally, you want to measure the oil pressure as it enters the main bearing oil galleys.

---

I have often wondered if these sandwich adapters lower oil pressure when used as they are with bypass filters. The full flow for the engine is going through (usually) a .25" hole, plus whatever output the bypass is capable of, which is usually limited to about 1 qt./minute.

I would agree that it would be prudent to check the oil pressure at an appropriate place that is representative of what the engine usually sees before using one of these long term.

Has anyone here ever had a problem with lowered oil pressure in street cars using sandwich adapters with bypass filters?

 

[greencrew]

quote:

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Originally posted by mangusta1969:
Greencrew,

What type of sandwich adapter plate are you using? I don't think it is a Frantz unit.

---

I pulled out the folder because I just don't remember. I bought it March 1987. It was unit #1017 back then which came with Dual P/R-A addapter, line & fittings. What ever that means. Cost me $115 back then. There is a picture of the filter internals, and there is no internal valve or spring, just open ports. There are two holes drilled into the side of the sandwich adapter. One to to each oil path, supply and return.

Reading through this 1975 fact sheet it says:

"...the filter removes particles as small as one tenth of a micron..."

Anyhow, a full flow filter screwed on to the end of the sandwich adapater, and most of the oil went through it. The return line from the by pass tapped in where the oil returned back from the full flow filter to the engine. It's the same design you see on the dual bypass with the spring removed.

[ February 01, 2004, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: greencrew ]

 

[greencrew]

I always thought that was a proprietary design, and there was no possible match. Otherwise you would have a by-pass filter without a by-pass filter which would be confusing to the next owner.

I don't see a problem, you'll just end up with the regular dirty oil. If you don't like the spring in there, why not just remove it?

 

[RalphPWood]

Almost all of the Motor Guards I sell are used with the Pera-Cool sandwich adapter. For GM engines I like to use the flex-a-lite adapter. With the sandwich adapter you need a relief valve somewhere to give the oil another way to get to the engine in case the oil needed by the engine can't get thru the bypass filter. The spring in the relief valve is what keeps oil going thru the Motor Guard. There will be times when the Motor Guard can supply the engine like when the oil is hot and the engine is idling. Most of the time the relief valve will be open. Think of the Motor Guard as a restricted oil cooler. The GM engines with the stock relief valve in the filter mount will relieve the oil directly to the engine and bypass both filters. The flex-a-lite has a thermostat relief valve which will be open on the GM engines when the engine is cold. As it closes it will still operate as a pressure relief valve. The stock relief valve might also open. I would rather relieve the oil into the full flow filter but it doesn't make much difference if you keep the oil clean. I have Motor Guards on some diesel generators at a tourist resort in the Bahamas. They use the Perma-Cool 181 adapters. It would be very rare but one engine needed more oil than the relief valve could handle. They drilled a relief orifice in addition to the relief valve. I think it was a 1/8". Drill the orifice too large and you reduce the pressure drop thru the adapter to the point where the Motor Guard doesn't heat up. We had some trouble in Alaska in the 60's with Frantz sandwich adapters using conventional oil. Frantz drilled the orifices larger. You do what you gotta do. It is easy if you have an oil pressure gauge. I could see where an engine with a lot of clearance could require more oil to pressure up the system. You can also use a Motor Guard ATF filter that has a 1/8" orifice in the filter. The filter will heat up faster in cold weather. My Camry has no full flow filter. It has a modified Perma-Cool remote filter mount adpater. I drilled a relief orifice in the adapter. Frantz was big on adapters at one time. All Motor Guard had was the plates to eliminate the almost useless full flow filter.
I have a customer in Santa Cruz, CA that has a Perma-Cool remote mount that uses two Ford 3/4" filters. He wants to use the pressure drop across the filters to feed the Motor Guard. It is a Ford Powerstroke. I talked to the people at Perma-Cool about a sandwich adapter for a Cummins Dodge. They didn't have a sandwich adapter to fit the 1" -16 mount but suggested I use a remote mount then put a Ford 3/4"-16 181 adapter on it. The Cummins has a internal relief valve like my Ford diesel. On a 8.2 Detroit with two full flow filters it would be better to use GM adapter on both filters with two Motor Guards.
Normally Frantz and Motor Guard didn't use an orifice in the filters when using them with an adapter. When you look at a jegs.com catalog you understand that the people that buy all of that equipment can handle installing a filter. When you look at the instructions with a Perma-Cool adapter and it says that 1/2" hose is required that is only if you require full flow of oil thru a oil cooler. I just bought a 150 hp cooler kit from jegs.com. I will drill the existing Motor Guard for ATF which means it will have an internal element bypass orifice of 1/8". The motor oil will simply flow thru it either before or after the cooler. The Motor Guard will filter either direction so I don't need to determine which way the flow is going. I used a 3966 flex-a-lite adapter on the bosses 37,000 dollar 6.0 equipped Chevy pickup. I had to cut 1/4" off the center nut. The re wasn't very much elearance between the little filter and the front u-joint. The conventional hookup with a tee at the oil pressure switch didn't look too good I saw a wire going down into where I couldn't get my hand. I will choose the sandwich adapter every time.
When Motor Guard gave the OK for Perma-Cool adapters they had a friend.

Ralph

 

[greencrew]

Ralph, I agree, I wold always use a sandwich adapter. After hearing Bob's comments on full flow filters, and his experiment with running an empty filter I think that there is no need for a full flow filter when running a by-pass.