All Electric MACK Trash Truck

PimTac said:
I’d like to see the range/work capacity of this truck. With all the mechanics of picking up containers and compacting inside, the power demands on the batteries have to be huge.
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Twin 130kW motors, for 496hp combined. [Not sure how that works out, 1hp is 746W, so I get 349hp. ?] If we assume 100% efficiency, then the battery load must be... 260kW. I'm guessing the duty cycle is actually quite high, like 20 seconds full output, 20 seconds full charge, 20 seconds cooling. Derating from even that, the battery pack must be both huge and with quite a bit of cooling, I'd wager.

Anyhow. 260kW. At 1,000V that'd be 260A. 500V->520A, etc. Hope they don't park downtown, the amount of copper in this thing would bring a pretty penny.
 
PimTac said:
I’d like to see the range/work capacity of this truck. With all the mechanics of picking up containers and compacting inside, the power demands on the batteries have to be huge.
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Exactly. For EV work trucks to be viable, battery density is key.
Tesla has been testing the Semi around the South Bay; its success is tied to battery density.
Semi range, loaded, is expected to be 300 or 500 miles depending on configuration.

Next Tuesday's Battery Day is ....
 
ABN_CBT_ENGR said:
???

What would you call the distance traveled over the "route"? ( and whatever power for the lift and compaction HPU)
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Range is a funny word it is stated in distance units but it also is storage capacity. They would have to state a range for each route since they are so different, what sense is that? I would call route distance miles. Maybe it takes100 kw hrs or maybe 200kw hrs to do it. As a plug in owner I can vouch that range is a ball park or nebulous term according to conditions. It’s the same as saying the range of a gas vehicle is 400 miles. Well maybe, maybe not.
In my area they have trolley buses that wirelessly charge through the pavement in certain locations. Looks like a circle in the pavement and the trolley parks over it.
 
Farnsworth said:
Range is a funny word it is stated in distance units but it also is storage capacity. They would have to state a range for each route since they are so different, what sense is that? I would call route distance miles. Maybe it takes100 kw hrs or maybe 200kw hrs to do it. As a plug in owner I can vouch that range is a ball park or nebulous term according to conditions. It’s the same as saying the range of a gas vehicle is 400 miles. Well maybe, maybe not.
In my area they have trolley buses that wirelessly charge through the pavement in certain locations. Looks like a circle in the pavement and the trolley parks over it.
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No, only in a made up metric for political or marketing purposes.

Mainly so points that you bring up can be skillfully avoided without directly answering them.

Range is a very specific term- its the distance between point A and B under a defined set of parameters

Payload is also a very specific term- its the total forces the available energy has to overcome to operate within those parameters.

Add those 2 together and that's what the battery will have to provide over the specified range.

The people who want to obfuscate or talk around this all important point without directly addressing it in terms that are easy to compare with the ICE counterparts generally do so because they already know the answer and don't want it out there for the general public.

Otherwise they would lead out of the gate with it as if it were the next wonder drug.
 
ABN_CBT_ENGR said:
No, only in a made up metric for political or marketing purposes.

Mainly so points that you bring up can be skillfully avoided without directly answering them.

Range is a very specific term- its the distance between point A and B under a defined set of parameters

Payload is also a very specific term- its the total forces the available energy has to overcome to operate within those parameters.

Add those 2 together and that's what the battery will have to provide over the specified range.

The people who want to obfuscate or talk around this all important point without directly addressing it in terms that are easy to compare with the ICE counterparts generally do so because they already know the answer and don't want it out there for the general public.

Otherwise they would lead out of the gate with it as if it were the next wonder drug.
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If one town is a distance of 25 miles away, we don’t say that’s the range of the town from here. I never really thought about the word much until now. What car makers usually say range is up to a distance or under standard test conditions. I can see why Mack doesn’t state a range for a garbage truck that sees widely varying usage over short distances and the same distances. Some are hilly some are not. Some are in cities some are not. Garbage companies would have to run tests just like on a diesel truck to make sure on a route they don’t run out of fuel for the day. Then they would know the range of their batteries in that specific case.
 
Farnsworth said:
If one town is a distance of 25 miles away, we don’t say that’s the range of the town from here. I never really thought about the word much until now. What car makers usually say range is up to a distance or under standard test conditions. I can see why Mack doesn’t state a range for a garbage truck that sees widely varying usage over short distances and the same distances. Some are hilly some are not. Some are in cities some are not. Garbage companies would have to run tests just like on a diesel truck to make sure on a route they don’t run out of fuel for the day. Then they would know the range of their batteries in that specific case.
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More Straw

Distance is a length between points

Range is travel of an item

Nowhere near similar in definition or proper usage
 
Maybe range is not a good term for this application because of the added machinery on these trucks the batteries will have to power. One truck in a urban setting picking up a receptacle every 50 feet versus a rural suburban route where the spacing would be much more and include more road driving in between subdivisions for example.
 
The average sanitation truck gets maybe 1 mpg in service. All they do it move 100', cycle the compactor, move another 100', cycle the compactor... rinse, repeat. Head to the incinerator. Suburban routes would be really different, but urban routes don't travel that many miles.

I always thought there was a lot of room for accumulators, or a dual-power system. But electric makes a lot of sense. I wonder about the weight. Municipal refuge trucks go overweight without blinking, and a bunch of batteries would limit trash capacity.
 
you did see the part about 'state owned"?

Its easy to have a puff piece when the "Ministry of Truth' controls the message.

On those Haul Trucks with the downhill charging, That's not as promising as the article leads people to believe. ( not likely to see a follow up)
 
No, I didn't dive into deep state truth messages to the expected extent obviously. Please extend on any issues of finding your personal range.
 
That's from 2017, hoping they would have great news that everything is working well, or maybe not....
I lead an all EV project in Canada to deliver CPG to stores on routes of about 40 miles a day. It was $1,000,000 for 6 - Class 5 trucks, and Federal gov't reimbursed $500,000. All the gov't wanted for the $500k was a final in service report and they didn't care after that.
We had them on routes for about 6 months, but couldn't continue as they were down with breakdowns more than they were up.
Smith trucks imported from UK and assembled in Kansas City.
There was incredible internal pressure to make fleet green, making a square peg fit a round hole.
The trucks are probably rusting in some corner of a lot somewhere in the US.
 
Smith trucks may be gone since 2017 but the eMining dumper or the electricity in general doesn't seem to have come to a halt. Not even Die letzten Tage der Schweiz have been broadcasted recently ;-) I dunno...



A larger Anglo American British is more hybrid in layout like the rapid old DET-250, for contemporary fleets we'd perhaps have to look at Afrika or wherever chinese trucks are on duty.
The Anglo American https://www.mining-technology.com/f...d-the-worlds-largest-electric-mining-vehicle/
to the right today even has the newest news according to which not only lithium is bad.

Interests always can be a thing of facets and aspects and perspectival disinterest. I really dunno...
 
Hmm. I was reading the other day about how Camry hybrid was catching up to Prius in terms of mpg. Makes one wonder if Prius makes sense anymore. But. Would hybrid sedans be where they were had Prius not done its thing? Some evolutionary dead ends help pave the road towards better solutions. Another example would the be Model T--utterly arcane system of vehicle controls, yet that vehicle helped put America on the road.

Sometimes an idea has to be beaten to death, and even then, yields knowledge. Most of us thought hybrids would never take off.
 
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