I appreciate everyone's concern for my career.
Time will tell, though, I think, at this point, I am a Bosnian optimist...
Time will tell, though, I think, at this point, I am a Bosnian optimist...
Airline Fleet/Management in a crisis
- Thread starter Astro14
- Start date
Originally Posted by Astro14
I appreciate everyone's concern for my career.
Time will tell, though, I think, at this point, I am a Bosnian optimist...
LOL.
I appreciate everyone's concern for my career.
Time will tell, though, I think, at this point, I am a Bosnian optimist...
LOL.
ATC comment: Our daily traffic is down ~60% (enroute center in the midwest). Overnights shifts are still normally busy because of FDX & UPS cargo demand. Also odd to see everybody up at their max ceilings. 737-900s at FL410 defies all logic. Hopeful for a speedy recovery for the industry and all involved here.
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MolaKule
Staff member
I am concerned for my friends who still work here.
https://www.kcrg.com/content/news/C...ounces-pay-cuts-furloughs-569627961.html
More stuff like this is inevitable until we get ramped back up.
https://www.kcrg.com/content/news/C...ounces-pay-cuts-furloughs-569627961.html
More stuff like this is inevitable until we get ramped back up.
I'm now getting a number of very serious inquiries about corporate (personal) jet operations. I am experienced with the larger Gulfstream jets and most first time owners don't really understand just how expensive it is. They all claim to want a G550, until the real costs are understood.
In any case, the underlying theme is avoidance of pathogens by 50 somethings and up. Despite that fact that small jet operations have ceased, we do expect things to go back to normal for us.
I truly feel badly for the airlines, as enclosed areas are seen as very risky. Despite the fact that modern airliners do a superb job managing internal airflow, and therefore greatly reduce the risk of pathogens, when compared to a bus or train. I think the public is going to be generally reluctant to fly in airliners until it seems not to be a risk. That could take some time.
In any case, the underlying theme is avoidance of pathogens by 50 somethings and up. Despite that fact that small jet operations have ceased, we do expect things to go back to normal for us.
I truly feel badly for the airlines, as enclosed areas are seen as very risky. Despite the fact that modern airliners do a superb job managing internal airflow, and therefore greatly reduce the risk of pathogens, when compared to a bus or train. I think the public is going to be generally reluctant to fly in airliners until it seems not to be a risk. That could take some time.
Originally Posted by Cujet
I'm now getting a number of very serious inquiries about corporate (personal) jet operations. I am experienced with the larger Gulfstream jets and most first time owners don't really understand just how expensive it is. They all claim to want a G550, until the real costs are understood.
In any case, the underlying theme is avoidance of pathogens by 50 somethings and up. Despite that fact that small jet operations have ceased, we do expect things to go back to normal for us.
I truly feel badly for the airlines, as enclosed areas are seen as very risky. Despite the fact that modern airliners do a superb job managing internal airflow, and therefore greatly reduce the risk of pathogens, when compared to a bus or train. I think the public is going to be generally reluctant to fly in airliners until it seems not to be a risk. That could take some time.
Air flow is not only issue. It is touching surfaces etc. Than airport environment, waiting in lines etc.
The more time passes we will have better understanding how this illness works. It is very randomized. I know several first responders who got sick. One mid 50's had a flu like symptoms. One fire inspector is in hospital, and one 41 years old with no preexisting conditions died. That scares people; not knowing what they are dealing with. Once states start to open, I think you might see more road traveling. People will drive to not congregate. From what I read today, NIH might, might have vaccine for first responders in November. If that happens that could be game changer. Until then....
I'm now getting a number of very serious inquiries about corporate (personal) jet operations. I am experienced with the larger Gulfstream jets and most first time owners don't really understand just how expensive it is. They all claim to want a G550, until the real costs are understood.
In any case, the underlying theme is avoidance of pathogens by 50 somethings and up. Despite that fact that small jet operations have ceased, we do expect things to go back to normal for us.
I truly feel badly for the airlines, as enclosed areas are seen as very risky. Despite the fact that modern airliners do a superb job managing internal airflow, and therefore greatly reduce the risk of pathogens, when compared to a bus or train. I think the public is going to be generally reluctant to fly in airliners until it seems not to be a risk. That could take some time.
Air flow is not only issue. It is touching surfaces etc. Than airport environment, waiting in lines etc.
The more time passes we will have better understanding how this illness works. It is very randomized. I know several first responders who got sick. One mid 50's had a flu like symptoms. One fire inspector is in hospital, and one 41 years old with no preexisting conditions died. That scares people; not knowing what they are dealing with. Once states start to open, I think you might see more road traveling. People will drive to not congregate. From what I read today, NIH might, might have vaccine for first responders in November. If that happens that could be game changer. Until then....
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First, modern airliners have HEPA filters in the air conditioning system. Those were put in from the factory. They stop particles down to, and including, viruses. Even in the 1980s, that was part of the design objectives of airplane manufacturers.
Next, my airline did wipe down all surfaces, armrests, tray tables, etc. as part of a regular cleaning before any of this happened.
Further, my airline is now "fogging" the interiors with anti-bacterial/viral sanitizers when the airplane blocks in. Empty cabin, fans and recirculating off, and it will kill anything that the wipe down didn't get.
Look, if you got sick from flying in the past, it was the passenger that elected to fly sick and sat next to you. Their germs were stopped by the HEPA filters, so it didn't come from rows away, it came from the sick person that practiced poor hygiene, sneezed on you, or touched the common surfaces, like the lav door, or arm rest.
Social distance is difficult to maintain on an airplane.
But the airplane isn't the disease vector, the other passengers are.
Next, my airline did wipe down all surfaces, armrests, tray tables, etc. as part of a regular cleaning before any of this happened.
Further, my airline is now "fogging" the interiors with anti-bacterial/viral sanitizers when the airplane blocks in. Empty cabin, fans and recirculating off, and it will kill anything that the wipe down didn't get.
Look, if you got sick from flying in the past, it was the passenger that elected to fly sick and sat next to you. Their germs were stopped by the HEPA filters, so it didn't come from rows away, it came from the sick person that practiced poor hygiene, sneezed on you, or touched the common surfaces, like the lav door, or arm rest.
Social distance is difficult to maintain on an airplane.
But the airplane isn't the disease vector, the other passengers are.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
And my flights are one of the most common places I have used Germ-X for many years …
Yet I rarely see anyone else do that …
I'll probably switch to my Rx safety glasses going forward … they fit tight and wrap around …
Yet I rarely see anyone else do that …
I'll probably switch to my Rx safety glasses going forward … they fit tight and wrap around …
Lately I've seen some pretty aggressive passenger wiping of tray tables, etc...times have changed.
I imagine no one will be complacent about hygiene and cleanliness going forward.
Even decades ago, it was common in Asia for people to wear masks if they had a cold. Struck me as odd walking around, say Beijing or Tokyo, seeing so many people wearing masks. But in a culture with population density it makes sense.
It may well become more acceptable in Western culture for people to wear them when in public, particularly when sick.
There are certainly lots of times when I have wished the sick, coughing, wheezing passenger next to me had the courtesy for follow that Asian custom...
I imagine no one will be complacent about hygiene and cleanliness going forward.
Even decades ago, it was common in Asia for people to wear masks if they had a cold. Struck me as odd walking around, say Beijing or Tokyo, seeing so many people wearing masks. But in a culture with population density it makes sense.
It may well become more acceptable in Western culture for people to wear them when in public, particularly when sick.
There are certainly lots of times when I have wished the sick, coughing, wheezing passenger next to me had the courtesy for follow that Asian custom...
Originally Posted by 4WD
And my flights are one of the most common places I have used Germ-X for many years …
Yet I rarely see anyone else do that …
I'll probably switch to my Rx safety glasses going forward … they fit tight and wrap around …
The wife and I have been using hand sanitizer as well for a long time on flights after visiting the lavatory and before meals.
Another interesting point; I believe that close encounters with passengers are reduced depending on the seats you choose. On a wide body we take the aisle and middle seat in the middle row. This takes away the chance of a passenger having to pass by you on their way to the lav or wherever. It's also easier for us to manage as we don't have to worry about that third person like you have to when you are in the window aisle.
Of course, on a narrow body this won't work.
And my flights are one of the most common places I have used Germ-X for many years …
Yet I rarely see anyone else do that …
I'll probably switch to my Rx safety glasses going forward … they fit tight and wrap around …
The wife and I have been using hand sanitizer as well for a long time on flights after visiting the lavatory and before meals.
Another interesting point; I believe that close encounters with passengers are reduced depending on the seats you choose. On a wide body we take the aisle and middle seat in the middle row. This takes away the chance of a passenger having to pass by you on their way to the lav or wherever. It's also easier for us to manage as we don't have to worry about that third person like you have to when you are in the window aisle.
Of course, on a narrow body this won't work.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
some window seats are cool … got an UAL Polaris single/window coming home from Tokyo on B772
This is a web shot of one just like it.
This is a web shot of one just like it.
Originally Posted by 4WD
some window seats are cool … got an UAL Polaris single/window coming home from Tokyo on B772
This is a web shot of one just like it.
That is the better alternative of course. I'm a frugal person so I usually fly in the back. ...
some window seats are cool … got an UAL Polaris single/window coming home from Tokyo on B772
This is a web shot of one just like it.
That is the better alternative of course. I'm a frugal person so I usually fly in the back. ...
Originally Posted by Astro14
First, modern airliners have HEPA filters in the air conditioning system. Those were put in from the factory. They stop particles down to, and including, viruses. Even in the 1980s, that was part of the design objectives of airplane manufacturers.
Next, my airline did wipe down all surfaces, armrests, tray tables, etc. as part of a regular cleaning before any of this happened.
Further, my airline is now "fogging" the interiors with anti-bacterial/viral sanitizers when the airplane blocks in. Empty cabin, fans and recirculating off, and it will kill anything that the wipe down didn't get.
Look, if you got sick from flying in the past, it was the passenger that elected to fly sick and sat next to you. Their germs were stopped by the HEPA filters, so it didn't come from rows away, it came from the sick person that practiced poor hygiene, sneezed on you, or touched the common surfaces, like the lav door, or arm rest.
Social distance is difficult to maintain on an airplane.
But the airplane isn't the disease vector, the other passengers are.
Airplane is not a factor, but we are dealing with virus where 25% of people do not show any symptoms. Forget the plane, what about customs? I was once going through IAD customs, I thought I would get run over. What about people movers? Trains to get to gate? Some German city did random testing of its population, 14% had antibodies and never suspected they had COVID-19.
Also, that is what I was saying about surfaces. lavatories? Flight attendant will not disinfect lavatories every time someone takes a dump.
First, modern airliners have HEPA filters in the air conditioning system. Those were put in from the factory. They stop particles down to, and including, viruses. Even in the 1980s, that was part of the design objectives of airplane manufacturers.
Next, my airline did wipe down all surfaces, armrests, tray tables, etc. as part of a regular cleaning before any of this happened.
Further, my airline is now "fogging" the interiors with anti-bacterial/viral sanitizers when the airplane blocks in. Empty cabin, fans and recirculating off, and it will kill anything that the wipe down didn't get.
Look, if you got sick from flying in the past, it was the passenger that elected to fly sick and sat next to you. Their germs were stopped by the HEPA filters, so it didn't come from rows away, it came from the sick person that practiced poor hygiene, sneezed on you, or touched the common surfaces, like the lav door, or arm rest.
Social distance is difficult to maintain on an airplane.
But the airplane isn't the disease vector, the other passengers are.
Airplane is not a factor, but we are dealing with virus where 25% of people do not show any symptoms. Forget the plane, what about customs? I was once going through IAD customs, I thought I would get run over. What about people movers? Trains to get to gate? Some German city did random testing of its population, 14% had antibodies and never suspected they had COVID-19.
Also, that is what I was saying about surfaces. lavatories? Flight attendant will not disinfect lavatories every time someone takes a dump.
Not a fan of virtual meetings however the entire world just got a crash course in it including geezers and stubborn who don't adopt tech.
People know what it is now and what can be accomplished. I see drop in business air travel.
People know what it is now and what can be accomplished. I see drop in business air travel.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Don't expect change for me once I can fly … But lots of these accountants flying around in teams to do audits around the globe ? They have already been told here is your new software and hardware to do that remote in conjunction with the nationals in that country.
Originally Posted by madRiver
Not a fan of virtual meetings however the entire world just got a crash course in it including geezers and stubborn who don't adopt tech.
People know what it is now and what can be accomplished. I see drop in business air travel.
That would favor the smaller aircraft then. Dreamliners and the Airbus equivalents for international as a example.
Not a fan of virtual meetings however the entire world just got a crash course in it including geezers and stubborn who don't adopt tech.
People know what it is now and what can be accomplished. I see drop in business air travel.
That would favor the smaller aircraft then. Dreamliners and the Airbus equivalents for international as a example.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by madRiver
Not a fan of virtual meetings however the entire world just got a crash course in it including geezers and stubborn who don't adopt tech.
People know what it is now and what can be accomplished. I see drop in business air travel.
That would favor the smaller aircraft then. Dreamliners and the Airbus equivalents for international as a example.
Depends upon what the new normal is in routes.
Big boys flying hub-to-hub along with smaller spokes served by single aisles might be returning.
It should also be noted that most of the smaller widebodies are still plenty big and the 787s and A350s fly most of their routes with a hub at one end or the other and often both.
To make point to point work you need at least a couple of hundred passenger per day each way accompanied with enough premium demand to fill the front cabin or two with paying premium traffic.
Originally Posted by madRiver
Not a fan of virtual meetings however the entire world just got a crash course in it including geezers and stubborn who don't adopt tech.
People know what it is now and what can be accomplished. I see drop in business air travel.
That would favor the smaller aircraft then. Dreamliners and the Airbus equivalents for international as a example.
Depends upon what the new normal is in routes.
Big boys flying hub-to-hub along with smaller spokes served by single aisles might be returning.
It should also be noted that most of the smaller widebodies are still plenty big and the 787s and A350s fly most of their routes with a hub at one end or the other and often both.
To make point to point work you need at least a couple of hundred passenger per day each way accompanied with enough premium demand to fill the front cabin or two with paying premium traffic.
Originally Posted by Cujet
snip
eND sNIP
I truly feel badly for the airlines, as enclosed areas are seen as very risky. Despite the fact that modern airliners do a superb job managing internal airflow, and therefore greatly reduce the risk of pathogens, when compared to a bus or train. I think the public is going to be generally reluctant to fly in airliners until it seems not to be a risk. That could take some time.
I have noticed when the plane is on Shore Power and/or just APU, cabin air flow is greatly reduced. There is almost no airflow in the walk way to the plane. People loading, brushing past me, reaching for the overhead bins. Once the main engines start, air flow and temp control improve a lot. Loading from the rear forward would seem to be the best, but the first class passengers might protest.
So I would expect these times to be peak exposure.
Rod
snip
eND sNIP
I truly feel badly for the airlines, as enclosed areas are seen as very risky. Despite the fact that modern airliners do a superb job managing internal airflow, and therefore greatly reduce the risk of pathogens, when compared to a bus or train. I think the public is going to be generally reluctant to fly in airliners until it seems not to be a risk. That could take some time.
I have noticed when the plane is on Shore Power and/or just APU, cabin air flow is greatly reduced. There is almost no airflow in the walk way to the plane. People loading, brushing past me, reaching for the overhead bins. Once the main engines start, air flow and temp control improve a lot. Loading from the rear forward would seem to be the best, but the first class passengers might protest.
So I would expect these times to be peak exposure.
Rod
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Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
Originally Posted by Cujet
snip
eND sNIP
I truly feel badly for the airlines, as enclosed areas are seen as very risky. Despite the fact that modern airliners do a superb job managing internal airflow, and therefore greatly reduce the risk of pathogens, when compared to a bus or train. I think the public is going to be generally reluctant to fly in airliners until it seems not to be a risk. That could take some time.
I have noticed when the plane is on Shore Power and/or just APU, cabin air flow is greatly reduced. There is almost no airflow in the walk way to the plane. People loading, brushing past me, reaching for the overhead bins. Once the main engines start, air flow and temp control improve a lot. Loading from the rear forward would seem to be the best, but the first class passengers might protest.
So I would expect these times to be peak exposure.
Rod
Actually it is not a bad idea. The Business and First class passengers can hang out in the lounge until the right moment. Especially for business class, you have to endure all the Y passengers going by and on a wide body that can take some time. The passengers carrying oversized carry ons through these sections usually causes some disgruntlement.
Originally Posted by Cujet
snip
eND sNIP
I truly feel badly for the airlines, as enclosed areas are seen as very risky. Despite the fact that modern airliners do a superb job managing internal airflow, and therefore greatly reduce the risk of pathogens, when compared to a bus or train. I think the public is going to be generally reluctant to fly in airliners until it seems not to be a risk. That could take some time.
I have noticed when the plane is on Shore Power and/or just APU, cabin air flow is greatly reduced. There is almost no airflow in the walk way to the plane. People loading, brushing past me, reaching for the overhead bins. Once the main engines start, air flow and temp control improve a lot. Loading from the rear forward would seem to be the best, but the first class passengers might protest.
So I would expect these times to be peak exposure.
Rod
Actually it is not a bad idea. The Business and First class passengers can hang out in the lounge until the right moment. Especially for business class, you have to endure all the Y passengers going by and on a wide body that can take some time. The passengers carrying oversized carry ons through these sections usually causes some disgruntlement.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Actually it is not a bad idea. The Business and First class passengers can hang out in the lounge until the right moment. Especially for business class, you have to endure all the Y passengers going by and on a wide body that can take some time. The passengers carrying oversized carry ons through these sections usually causes some disgruntlement.
Great point. I've always believed most airlines missed the mark on loading protocols. Loading by exact seat location, from back outboard seats, all the way to forward inboard seats, could reduce pathogen exposure. These are things that really don't cost the airline money, and if promoted properly, may help sooth some nerves.
Actually it is not a bad idea. The Business and First class passengers can hang out in the lounge until the right moment. Especially for business class, you have to endure all the Y passengers going by and on a wide body that can take some time. The passengers carrying oversized carry ons through these sections usually causes some disgruntlement.
Great point. I've always believed most airlines missed the mark on loading protocols. Loading by exact seat location, from back outboard seats, all the way to forward inboard seats, could reduce pathogen exposure. These are things that really don't cost the airline money, and if promoted properly, may help sooth some nerves.
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