Accord catcon.

[simple_gifts]

Well I've been searching for a car for a friend of mine's daughter (almost 16). Car will be used for just around town.

A coworker is trading in her 1998 Accord 4dr 4cyl auto 118K for a new car; dealer says it needs a new cat (CEL) and coworker doesn't want to spend the $1000. Dealer has offered $2800 for the car and insists a new cat must be installed only by the dealer, honda insists.

Questions
1) Is a replacement cat a Honda only part? Not sure how Honda can insist anything since car isn't under warranty. A muffler shop told my friend the same story, they couldn't do the work.

2) Does anyone think the fact I know my coworker bought the car new and was always dealer serviced (possibly with records) make the car worth buying at that price. I have told my friend that if she wants only to spend 5K for a car, one with a well known history is much better than a [censored] shoot; it probably wont' get better than this. Recognize the fact that I'm recommending a purchase for someone else.

I actually told her to spend 9K on a 3 year old corolla, but they seem to be not in the 9K range 8( and she doesn't want to spend that much for a car.

Any input is appreciated.

-Thomas.

 

[jmac]

$1000 seems awfully steep for a new cat, even an OEM one including install.
I have never heard that this is a dealer install only item. I have read of plenty of DIY's getting aftermarket cats and installing themselves, but they aren't generally as good as an OEM cat.
The CEL might not be the cat itself, could be a tired O2 sensor, these generally fail more often, and can set some of the same codes. Or could be that the EGR tubes are blocked and need cleaning and EGR valve R/R.
It would be good to pull the codes yourself and see what they are. These cars it is super easy to pull codes from with CEL on. Without a scanner, there should be a two pin connector under the glove box that you can jumper together with key off, then turn key on and the series of long and short blinks of the CEL will be the codes. Long blinks will be tens and short blinks will be ones to add up to code set.
There should be plenty of shops that do primarily Hondas that could diagnose and fix this car for less than the dealer.
Due to early emmissions failures on these cars, Honda put out an extended warranty on emmissions items for all of the fleet up to a certain milaage and you did not have to be the original owner. I think this car falls in the year range and quite possibly milage for that FREE replacement. Might be worth checking into. More info could be found on forums like cordclub.com or Honda-Tech.com.
This 6th generation car falls into the range that had a defect in factory AT, with many early failures, with that mileage unless tranny work has already been performed it could have a tranny problems ready to come up.
Otherwise I agree, a known history car is better than a not known one, unless you really know what to look for.

 

[Lonnie]

You don't think the dealer taking the trade-in would stretch the truth, do you? On a scale of 0-10 on the [censored] meter this is a 12. OEM cats are best and after market cats vary. Contact a local muffler shop and talk to some local Honda independent repair shops. You will get a good picture of were you stand. Also confirm that a cat is even needed. By asking around like this you will be surprised at what an expert you will soon become.

 

[mstrjon32]

First of all, it is unlikely that a car with only 118K miles is in need of a cat replacement, unless there was some defect or malfunction which ruined the cat. My last car I sold with 195K miles and it had the original cat, and had no problems passing emissions, and my mom got rid of her old car at 216K with the original cat. I've had friends with even older cars, one actually an Accord, with 260K miles, that had the original cat!

If it were my car, I'd scan the codes, and if indeed, the code is for the downstream O2 sensor, just replace the sensor first. If the cat actually does need replacement, I'd replace the cat with a cheap after-market one (you can get one for as little as $50, but often the really cheap ones won't work well enough to get you past emissions when brand new--you might also try a junk yard and get a used OEM part), and then double check the performance of the engine otherwise.

Also, jmac, don't think I've ever seen an OBD-II '98 MY car that you can use the jumper trick on. The last car I owned that this worked on was an '89 Regal that was capable of producing something like 63 codes; nothing compared to modern systems with hundreds if not thousands of possible codes. I'm pretty sure with a '98 you are going to have to use a proper OBD-II scanner to read the codes; unless Hondas are still set up to work with the jumper and I just don't know about it. Besides, any Advanced Auto Parts or similar store should have a code reader that you can use for free.

 

[jmac]

Hi mstrjon, maybe not with the 6ht gen 98, but I know for a fact that the trick can be used with the 5th gen 96 and 97 MY OBD-II cars, and it is even described in maintenance and service munuals like Haynes, and I thought I had read of 6th gen Honda owners doing the same trick. Of course the codes don't go past 99, so your not going to get a 4 digit code, but the definitions for the Honda codes are listed in many places. You can put a scanner on (autozone will do for free) into port, for 5th gen is located behind center console ashtray to pull full OBD-II codes.

 

[jmac]

Oh, and I meant 5th and 6th gen Hondas specifically.

 

[Chris142]

Quote:

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1) Is a replacement cat a Honda only part? Not sure how Honda can insist anything since car isn't under warranty. A muffler shop told my friend the same story, they couldn't do the work.

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Alot of the OBD2 cars are dealer only cats. There is a place that rebuilds them. Called SOL industries. Might look them up and give em a call.

 

[skate1968]

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You don't think the dealer taking the trade-in would stretch the truth, do you? On a scale of 0-10 on the [censored] meter this is a 12. OEM cats are best and after market cats vary.

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I agree. I love hondas but I generally don't trust Honda Stealerships.

 

[1998Volvo]

Quote:

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Questions

Is a replacement cat a Honda only part? Not sure how Honda can insist anything since car isn't under warranty. A muffler shop told my friend the same story, they couldn't do the work.

Any input is appreciated.

-Thomas.

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Full disclosure: I am a Honda fan. We have 2 Honda trucks, 1 Honda car, and 3 pieces of Honda lawn/garden equipment. I own stock in Honda.

I never, ever take our Hondas to the Honda dealer for anything except warranty repairs.

Maintenance and repair on these cars is pretty much foolproof, and parts are easily available online at a discount. If an ASE-certified repair shop can't fix a Honda, they should give up, sell their tools and go work at Starbucks.

The only time I've needed to replace a cat is when the flanges cracked and broke off the one on my first Saab. (I replaced it with a generic aftermarket cat, and BTW it didn't fit very well.)

So while it is possible that the cat has somehow become clogged, I don't think it is likely.

In the event the cat really does need replacement, I checked the website of one of the online Honda dealers (College Park Honda) that discounts parts and their price for a '98 Accord cat is $422.31. The OEM Honda parts tend to fit better and so are easier to install, I buy Honda parts but I buy them at a discount when I can.

 

[jmac]

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Quote:

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1) Is a replacement cat a Honda only part? Not sure how Honda can insist anything since car isn't under warranty. A muffler shop told my friend the same story, they couldn't do the work.

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Alot of the OBD2 cars are dealer only cats. There is a place that rebuilds them. Called SOL industries. Might look them up and give em a call.

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There are aftermaket OBDII cats for the Accord, like was noted though, some not worth the money you pay for them at any price.
Manchester motorsports lists 2OEM converters for this Accord, one is $328 and one is $503, to give you an idea. Any muffler shop should be able to install, if it is indeed the cat is bad which is unlikely. Sorry I do not know the difference in the two or why there are two listed.
Plenty of discussion on aftermarket cats on Honda forums.

 

[The Critic]

Many of those OE catalytic converters will run well over $700 for the part alone. $1000 sounds reasonable for a new OE unit with installation. Since you do not live in CA, you may be able to find an aftermarket "direct fit" unit for a few hundred dollars and have it installed. Those of us who live in CA really suffer when it comes to catalytic converters as we have very, very strict emission standards here and we are not legally allowed to use the "49 state" converters.

Needing a new converter at 118k isn't unreasonable if that's truly what's causing the CEL. A lot of converters only last about 100k, though the new PZEV vehicles have their converters warrantied for 150k here in CA and several other states.

 

[jmac]

Quote:

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I never, ever take our Hondas to the Honda dealer for anything except warranty repairs.

Maintenance and repair on these cars is pretty much foolproof, and parts are easily available online at a discount. If an ASE-certified repair shop can't fix a Honda, they should give up, sell their tools and go work at Starbucks.

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1998 Volvo, I agree 100%

 

[1998Volvo]

Quote:

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Does anyone think the fact I know my coworker bought the car new and was always dealer serviced (possibly with records) make the car worth buying at that price. I have told my friend that if she wants only to spend 5K for a car, one with a well known history is much better than a [censored] shoot; it probably wont' get better than this. Recognize the fact that I'm recommending a purchase for someone else.

Any input is appreciated.

-Thomas.

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Part 2:

I might suggest spending $100 and having your mechanic check it out, including a compression test. You can check the KBB prices at KBB-dot-com. But a $2800 Honda Accord with service records sounds interesting even if it does need a ($422) new cat. I'd be reluctant to recommend buying some unseen car somewhere in cyberspace, but if it were my daughter, my co-worker, and my $2800 I would be very very interested. All IMHO, caveat emptor, buyer beware, etc. etc. etc.

 

[jmac]

Plus that is what the dealer is willing to give for it, after fixing whatever is wrong with it, it would likely end up on his lot for a price somewhere north of $5K.

 

[simple_gifts]

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Plus that is what the dealer is willing to give for it, after fixing whatever is wrong with it, it would likely end up on his lot for a price somewhere north of $5K.

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That was what I was thinking. My coworker is a trusting induhvidual; she would not think the dealer is taking her for a ride.

Poking around on the net, I see there is an extended warranty for emissions related items because of an EPA ruling or something, not sure if it impacts 1998, but emissions related repairs seems to be covered to 150K, 14 years....

Should I be worried about the AT, seems like most of the problems occur with the V6, which this is not.

I will have to check out Manchester Honda/Motorsports, I used to work 4 buildings away years ago, but had totally forgotten about it; I'm not a "honda guy"

Thanks to all who have responded/will respond.

 

[The Critic]

Some of the early 6th gen I4 Accords did have some transmission issues, but no where to the extent of the V6 ones.

 

[Mokanic]

Quote:

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Well I've been searching for a car for a friend of mine's daughter (almost 16). Car will be used for just around town.

A coworker is trading in her 1998 Accord 4dr 4cyl auto 118K for a new car; dealer says it needs a new cat (CEL) and coworker doesn't want to spend the $1000. Dealer has offered $2800 for the car and insists a new cat must be installed only by the dealer, honda insists.

Questions
1) Is a replacement cat a Honda only part? Not sure how Honda can insist anything since car isn't under warranty. A muffler shop told my friend the same story, they couldn't do the work.

2) Does anyone think the fact I know my coworker bought the car new and was always dealer serviced (possibly with records) make the car worth buying at that price. I have told my friend that if she wants only to spend 5K for a car, one with a well known history is much better than a [censored] shoot; it probably wont' get better than this. Recognize the fact that I'm recommending a purchase for someone else.

I actually told her to spend 9K on a 3 year old corolla, but they seem to be not in the 9K range 8( and she doesn't want to spend that much for a car.

Any input is appreciated.

-Thomas.

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Brown Recycling takes O.E. converters and rebuilds them. Have put several on Hondas such as the one you speak of. One will set you back about 100bucks and will fit perfectly. No need to butcher up your exhaust to put in a generic unit.
Honda used some U.S. sourced converters for these cars and failure was common after 100K miles.

 

[Aldaris]

She could definitely sell that car for at least 5 grand if it's in good shape. It's got a semi-modern good-looking body style. An aftermarket cat will run her about $150. The dealer wants to make a quick couple grand flipping that car.

 

[rjundi]

There are many aftermarket cats that will work will an Accord. No need to spend the extra $$$ on OEM parts.

You will likely have to change the two O2 sensors also since the poor running cat at least damaged the downstream one or the upstream/downstream caused the cat to go bad.

 

[simple_gifts]

Car was rear-ended yesterday; everyone OK, better it be rear ended two days before I bought it than two days after.

Thanks for all the input.....

-Thomas