9005 upgrade bulbs?

[pitzel]

Originally Posted by AZjeff
Found some Wagner brand on Amazon for $12.72 each with good reviews going to give them a try.



Those are supposedely made by Philips, but over on "candlepowerforums", the claim was made that they're "seconds". Don't know if that's a plausible claim though. FWIW, I have bought genuine ones off of eBay shipped in the lower 48 for a slight bit less, although they don't come in OEM packaging. PM me if you want the ebay seller's name.

 

[Dave_Mark]

Originally Posted by pitzel
Originally Posted by AZjeff
Found some Wagner brand on Amazon for $12.72 each with good reviews going to give them a try.



Those are supposedely made by Philips, but over on "candlepowerforums", the claim was made that they're "seconds". Don't know if that's a plausible claim though. FWIW, I have bought genuine ones off of eBay shipped in the lower 48 for a slight bit less, although they don't come in OEM packaging. PM me if you want the ebay seller's name.


Completely true. Wagner 9011s are simply QA rejected bulbs. Just look at images of Wagner bulbs online: note how the Wagner 9011 has a crooked, sloppily placed filament, while the Philips 9011 filament has no issues with standing tall and proud. Sloppy filament placement=leaving performance on the table. Plus, if you look at a Wagner bulb, it says Philips on the base.

To some people, the Wagner might be worth the savings, but there's a reason the Wagners are usually a few bucks less than the Philips.

https://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Light...agner+9011&qid=1575104269&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/PHILIPS-9011...=9011+bulb&qid=1575104281&sr=8-8

 

[AZjeff]

Who knew about the Wagner bulbs unless you're a bulb nerd? Lower price doesn't always mean lower quality, oil is a good example of that. They're pretty harsh over on candlepowerforums, insisting a guy with an old 300k Corolla buy new OEM headlights instead of 9011s and restoring his.

 

[pitzel]

Originally Posted by Dave_Mark

To some people, the Wagner might be worth the savings, but there's a reason the Wagners are usually a few bucks less than the Philips.


Just to clarify, do the Wagners have any distinguishing marks to show they're Wagners? Or could someone fraudulently, if bought by way of bulk packaging, easily substitute a Wagner for a Philips?

 

[Dave_Mark]

Originally Posted by AZjeff
Who knew about the Wagner bulbs unless you're a bulb nerd?


Even the layperson can know, thanks to the fact that the information is publicly posted online in at least two forums now, and has been posted for at least the past few years.

Quote
They're pretty harsh over on candlepowerforums, insisting a guy with an old 300k Corolla buy new OEM headlights instead of 9011s and restoring his.


I don't read over there often enough to know exactly what thread you're referring to, but they don't "insist" on anything--you don't get banned or suspended for refusing to listening to the free advice. Plus, if you're going to post in a little-known forum dedicated to automotive lighting, and ask for upgrades, what do you expect apart from maximum upgrade advice?

It's a screwed if you do and screwed if you don't situation--suggest a lens restoration and a cheap 9005 bulb, and you run into the possible issue of people complaining that they wasted their money on little to no improvement. Suggest an overhaul with brand new, known good parts and technically superior bulbs, and you run into the ever present issue of people who want upgrades but don't want to pay

. I think it's prudent to outline how to achieve the maximum upgrade, and leave it to the user to decide how far they want to go about things...you certainly won't get banned for saying you ignored some advice or every piece of advice.

Finally, perhaps this diagram from a European standards development committee's presentation will help put things in perspective for you, and why some people feel that the savings from the Wagner bulb isn't worth it. 30 meters is about 100 feet... Nothing to scoff at!

http://imgur.com/a/T2dvGrC

 

[Dave_Mark]

Originally Posted by pitzel
Originally Posted by Dave_Mark

To some people, the Wagner might be worth the savings, but there's a reason the Wagners are usually a few bucks less than the Philips.


Just to clarify, do the Wagners have any distinguishing marks to show they're Wagners? Or could someone fraudulently, if bought by way of bulk packaging, easily substitute a Wagner for a Philips?


As far as I know, no distinguishing marks. Yes, someone could commit that sort of fraud, but Philips bulbs generally have straight and well-aligned filaments, and in at least some cases, it'll be fairly obvious to the observant person that they've been duped with a Wagner bulb.

 

[AZjeff]

Originally Posted by Dave_Mark
Originally Posted by AZjeff
Who knew about the Wagner bulbs unless you're a bulb nerd?


Even the layperson can know, thanks to the fact that the information is publicly posted online in at least two forums now, and has been posted for at least the past few years.

Quote
They're pretty harsh over on candlepowerforums, insisting a guy with an old 300k Corolla buy new OEM headlights instead of 9011s and restoring his.


I don't read over there often enough to know exactly what thread you're referring to, but they don't "insist" on anything--you don't get banned or suspended for refusing to listening to the free advice. Plus, if you're going to post in a little-known forum dedicated to automotive lighting, and ask for upgrades, what do you expect apart from maximum upgrade advice?

It's a screwed if you do and screwed if you don't situation--suggest a lens restoration and a cheap 9005 bulb, and you run into the possible issue of people complaining that they wasted their money on little to no improvement. Suggest an overhaul with brand new, known good parts and technically superior bulbs, and you run into the ever present issue of people who want upgrades but don't want to pay

. I think it's prudent to outline how to achieve the maximum upgrade, and leave it to the user to decide how far they want to go about things...you certainly won't get banned for saying you ignored some advice or every piece of advice.

Finally, perhaps this diagram from a European standards development committee's presentation will help put things in perspective for you, and why some people feel that the savings from the Wagner bulb isn't worth it. 30 meters is about 100 feet... Nothing to scoff at!

http://imgur.com/a/T2dvGrC


OK, you're a bulb guy. Thanks for the reply. A bulb layperson can also look at the Amazon reviews, see 4.5 star rating with 71 reviews and reasonably conclude the Wagner bulbs aren't garbage like LED or HID "upgrade" stuff without further searching. I have a hard time spending close to $50 for 2 headlight bulbs with no idea how much difference they'll make, $25 is easier to experiment with for me. Is it proven that 100% of these Wagner bulbs are misaligned?

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by AZjeff

OK, you're a bulb guy. Thanks for the reply. A bulb layperson can also look at the Amazon reviews, see 4.5 star rating with 71 reviews and reasonably conclude the Wagner bulbs aren't garbage like LED or HID "upgrade" stuff without further searching. I have a hard time spending close to $50 for 2 headlight bulbs with no idea how much difference they'll make, $25 is easier to experiment with for me. Is it proven that 100% of these Wagner bulbs are misaligned?


A slight misalignment can have a HUGE impact on beam pattern. But the Wagner bulbs will be fine, as there is play in the headlight and where the bulb locks in, so even if they are off a little you can wiggle it back to being correct. They wouldn't sell them if they were crazy out of spec.

 

[pitzel]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by AZjeff

OK, you're a bulb guy. Thanks for the reply. A bulb layperson can also look at the Amazon reviews, see 4.5 star rating with 71 reviews and reasonably conclude the Wagner bulbs aren't garbage like LED or HID "upgrade" stuff without further searching. I have a hard time spending close to $50 for 2 headlight bulbs with no idea how much difference they'll make, $25 is easier to experiment with for me. Is it proven that 100% of these Wagner bulbs are misaligned?


A slight misalignment can have a HUGE impact on beam pattern. But the Wagner bulbs will be fine, as there is play in the headlight and where the bulb locks in, so even if they are off a little you can wiggle it back to being correct. They wouldn't sell them if they were crazy out of spec.


The allegation is that the filament in the Wagner bulbs is misaligned relative to the bulb's glass housing, and that such misalignment causes a reduction in the light output.

Not being a problem of user installation, or something that's correctable through user installation.

(I personally have no idea whether there's even a shred of truth to such, but the people on "candlepowerforums" were so adamant about it being a potential issue, albeit with the caveat that certain outspoken "candlepowerforums" posters can be overly dramatic....).

 

[AZjeff]

If anyone is still looking here I just received 2 Wagner 9011s from Amazon and the filaments are dead straight aligned and identical to each other. Maybe it's an internet problem?

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by AZjeff
If anyone is still looking here I just received 2 Wagner 9011s from Amazon and the filaments are dead straight aligned and identical to each other. Maybe it's an internet problem?


After reading what Dave_Mark said in the other thread, that's all I think is happening. Philips probably wants their bulbs within +/-X% of nominal, anything outside that is "rejected" by Philips and it becomes a Wagner bulb.

 

[Dave_Mark]

I've stopped using 9012s for my low-beams and instead have been using 9011s for both lows and highs since I like maximum output. I run my alternator at 14.6-14.8 volts, and at 14.6 volts we're looking at 3500 lumens per bulb, 7000 lumens on low-beam, 14,000 raw lumens when both lows and highs are on, and a lot of confused F-150 drivers driving around at night with 50" light bars switched on when I flick my high-beams on. I use a wiring harness so I know every bulb is being fed a good and healthy 14.6-14.8 volts. No 18ga wires and 20ga grounds here, no sir. And I get surprisingly decent life out of my 9011 bulbs still--they definitely aren't popping every other week.

The Wagners might be a good choice--if I can get 4 decent 9011 bulbs at $12 a piece that might be a better value proposition than getting 4 name-brand 9011 bulbs at $23 a piece.

And although I do yearn for the new reigning champ of 9011 bulbs, the resurrected Toshiba 9011, which is making a comeback after being deep 6'd almost a decade ago, I'm not sure if paying $55 a piece for 4 bulbs is worth it. Maybe the expressions on confused light bar users would be worth it when they realize their $1000 50" light bar has nothing on a 4x 9011 setup.

And don't some GM's have their alternator voltage regulator pegged to like 15.4 volts or something? At 15.4 volts that's over 4200 lumens per 9011 bulb. That would be pretty crazy. Amazing what halogen technology can do if one really sits down and tinkers a bit.

 

[AZjeff]

I ordered the Wagners from Amazon before it was pointed out they're junk so I ordered 2 Philips and intended to send the Wagners back. The Wagners came yesterday and the Philips came today. The Wagner box says made in Germany or Korea, the Philips box says designed in Germany, made in Korea. Now the interesting part, they're different internally. Not the same bulb.

Wagner box and bulb:

and Philips package and bulb:

What's interesting to me is the element in the Philips is obviously not centered in the bulb and it's slightly crooked. This is visually apparent and not because of the photo taken at an angle. After the Wagner bashing on candlepowerforums I don't know what to think. I can put all 4 in the RAV4 or 2 in the RAV and 2 in the Titan.

 

[Skippy722]

I vote put one of each in and see how/if it affects the beam pattern. I have the Philips 9011's in my projector style headlights and they work perfectly fine. May or may not cast a different beam in reflector style headlights.

 

[AZjeff]

The RAV has projector lows and reflector highs. It might get all 4 since it's my 4am commuter car.

Be interesting to see what your bulbs look like and if the element is straight and centered.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by AZjeff
The RAV has projector lows and reflector highs. It might get all 4 since it's my 4am commuter car.

Be interesting to see what your bulbs look like and if the element is straight and centered.


If it's not frigidly cold and/or windy when I get home I'll take a look.

 

[Dave_Mark]

What is printed on the bottom of the Wagner bulbs? Last I checked, they were branded Philips.

 

[Skippy722]

My Philips 9011 filaments look just like your Wagners.

 

[AZjeff]

Originally Posted by Dave_Mark
What is printed on the bottom of the Wagner bulbs? Last I checked, they were branded Philips.


The Wagners say Wagner and Made in Germany. The Philips bulbs don't have COO (but the box says Korea).

So my Wagners look like your Philips and my Philips are different and look a little sloppy. What would they say about that over on candlepowerforums?

 

[Dave_Mark]

I'm not sure what you're seeing with the Philips, as they look fine to me. If you're talking about the support post, then yes, that's supposed to be bent like that. The coiled filament itself is straight and aligned. And as I discussed earlier, there are factors that can't be seen with the naked eye.

The Wagners look equally fine and looks like you've got a great deal, and they'll likely perform just as well.

Originally Posted by AZjeff
So my Wagners look like your Philips and my Philips are different and look a little sloppy. What would they say about that over on candlepowerforums?


Sounds like a great question for you to ask over there

! I don't know everything and if they have updated information, I'd love to hear it. Generally, I try to stay away from Wagner as the majority of their line-up consists of blue and yellow-tinted bulbs that claim to cut through fog or light up road signs or other gimmicks, so it's nice to see a diamond in the rough in the form of their 9011 bulbs.