2019 Tundra ATF.... Burned?

[Mainia]

Hi,

I have a 2019 Toyota Tundra with tow package which was supposed to come with an ATF cooler as per my list of options. Many discussions has Toyota saying "not needed". I wasn't towing until June and since put about 3000 desert and mountain and 100°++ days on the road. I had topped it off just before I left and nice clear pink...

I started monitoring temperatures just recently as I decided an ATF cooler may be worth the investment as I find myself full time RV'ing. I tow a 7000lb Airstream. I monitored my temperatures the past few weeks and was getting 130°+ on 75° days on rolling hills. When towing It spiked up to almost 160° on a long ~4% slope 90° ambient temperature.

I installed the ATF cooler today and here's the overflow to get to proper level. It's cloudy and smells burnt! I'll send for analysis but with what I've explained any thoughts?
Clean new ATF on left, burnt on right.

Total mileage ~15,000 miles...


Thanks!

I HATE WS. It is a flushing ATF. It is said to be a semi synthetic. My wifes Rav4 had worse looking at 22,000. I now have Redline D6 with 1.5 qts of Redline Racing and 1.5qts of Redline Racing low viscosity to closer match D6 viscosity to kill some of the slip agents. 50,000 miles with towing and it is still RED. WS is good for a flush. Run it for 6,000 on new vehicle and dump the break-in out and then add a "non price point" quality ATF.

 

[SoNic67]

I HATE WS. It is a flushing ATF. It is said to be a semi synthetic.

That's just Toyota's WS. It's indeed a worrisome fluid. People keep saying that "Toyota's worked for 100's of miles with that fluid". Wrong! They worked that long with the previous generation, non-LV Toyota fluid (T-IV for example). WS was introduced gradually in their transmissions.
"This fluid absorbs moisture and should never be reused. Always use fluid from an unopened container." See Toyota bulletin T-SB-003-11.

Maintenance schedule of many Toyota vehicles reveals that there is a 100,000 km (60,000 miles) replacement interval if the vehicle is used on short trips, city driving, hauling heavy loads, trailer towing, or using a car-top hauler.

On the other hand, AISIN, that makes those transmissions, has a full synthetic WS fluid. Rockauto sells it.

 

[2EHA]

WS is probably a discount knockoff of DexVI in the same way 3309 was a copy paste of Dex III

 

[kschachn]

Considering that Aisin ATF-0WS isn't licensed WS either, I'd just go to Walmart and buy some full synthetic Maxlife ATF for $18/four quarts.

 

[ollie]

Both my 2008 Tundra and my 2014 Tacoma come with a complimentary Lifetime Powertrain Warranty. That warranty certificate is good till 999,999 miles.

That is a fantastic incentive to purchase a Toyota. Is this a factory warranty or aftermarket? I have never heard of a factory lifetime powertrain warranty.

The closest I came to that was a factory 100,000 mile warranty on the powertrain of my 94 Silverado. Of course there is always aftermarket warranties. But sometimes they don't include seal or torque converter failure.

 

[SoNic67]

Aisin ATF-0WS isn't licensed WS either

What do you mean?
AISIN make the transmissions. It is listed by them as "type WS". So I would say it's better than any crummy WS that is destroyed by humidity.

AISIN

www.aisinaftermarket.com

 

[kschachn]

They make the transmissions. It is listed by them as "type WS". So I would say it's better than any crummy WS that is destroyed by humidity.

AISIN

www.aisinaftermarket.com

Okay.

 

[kschachn]

What do you mean?

If neither one is licensed WS then both are "recommended for". Valvoline Maxlife is available at most Walmart stores, are you paying less than $4.25 a quart for the Aisin fluid?

 

[SoNic67]

On the AISIN bottle it is marked clearly "Type WS". I don't get what other "licensing" is needed...
And on Rockauto it is $5.94/qt. Not the end of the world.

 

[jtwrace]

I have a 2019 Tacoma and while it's a different transmission, it had a very odd shift/shudder. After the dealer telling me it's normal, I decided to put in some Lubguard ATF Protectant. To my surprise, it solved the issue. I tow a ton too so it certainly can't hurt and has been incredible for the last 15k miles.

 

[SoNic67]

Lubguard ATF

I used their Platinum product in all my vehicles: https://www.lubegard.com/products/platinum/
I have a couple of Ford vehicles with almost 200k miles each, I think that says a lot

Use of Lubegard with WS: https://www.lubegard.com/viscosity-in-depth-review/

 

[kschachn]

Yes, but if you read the description that Aisin themselves give it says "ATF-0WS is specifically engineered for Toyota, Lexus, Scion, GM, and more Transmissions that requires WS Fluid". Toyota (like most other Asian manufacturers) does not license their fluid specifications, so any third-party fluid is always "recommended for those applications that require". Much the same as how Honda does not license ATF DW-1. Therefore the Valvoline product is in the exact same category as the Aisin product - recommended for WS applications.

Also I think the container you show is outdated, recently Aisin changed the way they label their products. Here is the current one:

https://aisinaftermarket.com/uploads/evq1y5in_ATF-0WS_Product_Annoucement_copy.pdf

 

[Astro14]

"We at Toyota have done extensive testing and concluded that nobody buys the arthritic dinosaur called the Tundra for serious work"

right...

 

[SoNic67]

Toyota (like most other Asian manufacturers) does not license their fluid specifications

That's just Toyota greed. Toyota doesn't make the transmissions, or the fluid inside of them. AISIN makes both.
I have used the Maxlife for flushes, but it's datasheet viscosity is slightly different from WS. So for extra $1.5/qt I can afford to use AISIN fluid.

right...

You are the exception that confirms the rule

 

[ollie]

right...

I will tell you I really like my basic 05 GMC Sierra. But IMHO there is no American manufacturer that can compete with the durability, reliability, or longevity of a Toyota. And especially when you abuse them.

 

[kschachn]

That's just Toyota greed. Toyota doesn't make the transmissions, or the fluid inside of them. AISIN makes both.
I have used the Maxlife for flushes, but it's datasheet viscosity is slightly different from WS. So for extra $1.5/qt I can afford to use AISIN fluid.

Okay if you say so. But don't let your obvious bias influence a largely technical decision. There is no objective evidence the Aisin branded fluid is any better or worse than the Valvoline product.

You know Aisin makes their own fluid? Are you sure about that? They have a blending facility?

 

[Astro14]

My Tundra is about to hit 50,000 miles. I’m delighted with it. It’s a great truck. It tows with ease. (that Mercedes + trailer were about 7,800#). It’s been a great truck, for all the other tasks, hauling building supplies and landscaping materials, going out to dinner (it has a very nice interior) and long, frequent road trips. It does them all well.

When shopping, I drove them all, Ram, Silverado, F-150. Each have some strengths and weaknesses, but I’m glad I chose the Tundra.

That said, mine came with a big oil-air transmission cooler. I wouldn’t have bought the truck without that. This 2019+ model change is just ridiculous. If I owned a 2019+, I would retrofit a big oil-air cooler, just as I’ve done on cars that came without them.

 

[SoNic67]

There is no objective evidence the Aisin branded fluid is any better or worse than the Valvoline product.

I didn't claim that. I just said that's slightly different than Valvoline. And that PERSONALLY I trust them more, because they make transmissions. As opposed of Valvoline or Toyota.

 

[wdn]

If neither one is licensed WS then both are "recommended for". Valvoline Maxlife is available at most Walmart stores, are you paying less than $4.25 a quart for the Aisin fluid?

Why buy unlicensed, unapproved Maxlife when you can buy Castrol MAXLIFE full synthetic ATF that is certified for use in all Toyota vehicles?

 

[2EHA]

That's just Toyota greed. Toyota doesn't make the transmissions, or the fluid inside of them. AISIN makes both.

Toyota owns 51% of Aisin, for all intents and purposes it is Toyota’s transmission development division in the same way the Jatco is for Nissan.

Aisin was also one of the first truly global pieces of the Japanese auto industry. They gradually took over Borg-Warner’s auto transmission operations in the 70s and have been selling transmissions to western manufacturers ever since.