2009 BMW 650i

Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Messages
244
Location
Odessa, TX
At purchase the BMW dealer used BMW Twin Turbo 0w30 LL-01FE. In speaking with service advisor they use 0w30 in all vehicles that once called for 5w30 under the LL-01 spec. This car has N62 4.8 liter V8 that is naturally aspirated.

Some Bimmer forums are claiming the 0w30 is too thin for the V8 and one should run 0w40 or 5w40 that meets LL-01.

I’m leaning toward Castrol 5w40. Am I overthinking this?
 
Castrol 0w40 is considered a better oil than 5w40. However, it no longer has LL01 certification, that said, it's perfectly capable for your engine.
 
No need for a fuel efficient oil like a 0w30 FE in that engine, Castrol 0w40 or M1 0w40 would be my choice without any doubt. The Castrol EDGE 5W-30 M is Euro spec and LL-04 but I don't think finding it in the US will be very easy.
 
Last edited:
At purchase the BMW dealer used BMW Twin Turbo 0w30 LL-01FE. In speaking with service advisor they use 0w30 in all vehicles that once called for 5w30 under the LL-01 spec. This car has N62 4.8 liter V8 that is naturally aspirated.

Some Bimmer forums are claiming the 0w30 is too thin for the V8 and one should run 0w40 or 5w40 that meets LL-01.

I’m leaning toward Castrol 5w40. Am I overthinking this?
No you are not overthinking. N62 should not use 0W30 LL01FE IMO. It runs super hot, it is known leaker etc.
Castrol 0W40 or Mobil1 0W40. Both do not have LL01 due to BMW updating LL01 in 2018. But, in your engine will do great.
If you want LL01, better choices than Castrol Edge 5W40 would be Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 and Valvoline 5W40 European Vehicle.
Valvoline you can find in Wal Mart, Pennzoil goes on sale all the time in Advance Auto Parts at $33 for 5qt+ filter.
 
No you are not overthinking. N62 should not use 0W30 LL01FE IMO. It runs super hot, it is known leaker etc.
Castrol 0W40 or Mobil1 0W40. Both do not have LL01 due to BMW updating LL01 in 2018. But, in your engine will do great.
If you want LL01, better choices than Castrol Edge 5W40 would be Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 and Valvoline 5W40 European Vehicle.
Valvoline you can find in Wal Mart, Pennzoil goes on sale all the time in Advance Auto Parts at $33 for 5qt+ filter.


The oil temp gauge in the instrument cluster almost always reads between 220 and 240 at operating temps.

The owners manual says 0w30, 5w30, 0w40 and 5w40 are acceptable. I think the 0w40 will be the one to go with.
 
The oil temp gauge in the instrument cluster almost always reads between 220 and 240 at operating temps.

The owners manual says 0w30, 5w30, 0w40 and 5w40 are acceptable. I think the 0w40 will be the one to go with.
Yes, but as long as they are LL01. That manual is from 2009 so a lot of 0W oil were LL01 approved. In 2018 BMW updated approval for B generation of engines, and for now, 0W oils are not approved.
What you should look in absence of LL01 on oil packaging is MB229.5 approval which is more stringent and comprehensive than LL01.
 
I Think HTHS in LL01fe i 3.0, in LL01 its minimum 3.5. I have a 2013 750ix also with superhot engine. In Europe asking for LL04 who got HTHS of minimum 3.5. I use 5w40 in it with HTHS 3.9
 
Yes, but as long as they are LL01. That manual is from 2009 so a lot of 0W oil were LL01 approved. In 2018 BMW updated approval for B generation of engines, and for now, 0W oils are not approved.
What you should look in absence of LL01 on oil packaging is MB229.5 approval which is more stringent and comprehensive than LL01.

Is it more stringent and comprehensive than the updated LL01 spec?
 
Is it more stringent and comprehensive than the updated LL01 spec?
What changed with current LL01 is that current one has more stringed oxidation limit. However, oxidation limits in BMW approvals are already most stringent. Why? They introduced N20, B38,48 and 58 engine tests. Why those engines need more stringent oxidation requirements, compared to already very stringent, I do not know.
But, as you can see, I do not have an issue using oil that is not approved for current LL01 in my BMW.
If I had newer BMW, I would use only approved oil.
 
What changed with current LL01 is that current one has more stringed oxidation limit. However, oxidation limits in BMW approvals are already most stringent. Why? They introduced N20, B38,48 and 58 engine tests. Why those engines need more stringent oxidation requirements, compared to already very stringent, I do not know.
But, as you can see, I do not have an issue using oil that is not approved for current LL01 in my BMW.
If I had newer BMW, I would use only approved oil.

I've been using M1 0W40 and Castrol 0W40 interchangeably since I've owned my '08 550i. So I have no problem using oil that is not approved for the current LL01 spec.

I was just curious about your quote:

"What you should look in absence of LL01 on oil packaging is MB229.5 approval which is more stringent and comprehensive than LL01."

Does this comparison refer to the Current LL01 spec or are you comparing MB229.5 to the older LL01 spec?
 
I've been using M1 0W40 and Castrol 0W40 interchangeably since I've owned my '08 550i. So I have no problem using oil that is not approved for the current LL01 spec.

I was just curious about your quote:



Does this comparison refer to the Current LL01 spec or are you comparing MB229.5 to the older LL01 spec?
Older and current. MB229.5 like all specifications is going through updates too.
 
I've been using M1 0W40 and Castrol 0W40 interchangeably since I've owned my '08 550i. So I have no problem using oil that is not approved for the current LL01 spec.

I was just curious about your quote:



Does this comparison refer to the Current LL01 spec or are you comparing MB229.5 to the older LL01 spec?

Have you noticed any difference between Castrol and Mobil 0w40? I have an 07 750 and about to do an oil change
 
No you are not overthinking. N62 should not use 0W30 LL01FE IMO. It runs super hot, it is known leaker etc.
Castrol 0W40 or Mobil1 0W40. Both do not have LL01 due to BMW updating LL01 in 2018. But, in your engine will do great.
If you want LL01, better choices than Castrol Edge 5W40 would be Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 and Valvoline 5W40 European Vehicle.
Valvoline you can find in Wal Mart, Pennzoil goes on sale all the time in Advance Auto Parts at $33 for 5qt+ filter.

It seems like Castrol 5w40 now has the MB 229.5 approval in addition to BMW ll01. Is it still inferior to penzzoil and valvoline?
 
No, other than the fact it is all Grp III unlike Castrol 0w40 and Mobil 1 0w40 which both have some PAO (Castrol more). Pennzoil has some GTL which is often referred to as Grp III+ if that matters. I don't know on the Valvoline but I doubt it, I have it in my KIA though LOL.

Bottom line is all of the oils you mentioned meet a host of tough Euro specs and any of them will work just fine in your BMW.
 
It seems like Castrol 5w40 now has the MB 229.5 approval in addition to BMW ll01. Is it still inferior to penzzoil and valvoline?
They definitely improved it, but that Castrol is, how to say, chronically behind other line ups. It is not top product. Noack is still at 11%, KV100 is above 14, but HTHS is 3.7. So with Castrol 0W40 you getting same HTHS, lower Noack and lower KV100, indicating better base stock.
So, why getting 5W40 when for the same price there is better product?
And yes, on paper, Valvoline still looks better.
 
They definitely improved it, but that Castrol is, how to say, chronically behind other line ups. It is not top product. Noack is still at 11%, KV100 is above 14, but HTHS is 3.7. So with Castrol 0W40 you getting same HTHS, lower Noack and lower KV100, indicating better base stock.
So, why getting 5W40 when for the same price there is better product?
And yes, on paper, Valvoline still looks better.
Thank you for the reponse.

How about Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0w40? How does it compare to Castrol and Mobil 1 0w40?!
 
I keep reading about how great Castrol 0W40 is, but is it not LL-01 approved? There must be a clear reason why it isn’t while the more “inferior” 5W40 is. My car is out of warranty but I am just curious.
 
I keep reading about how great Castrol 0W40 is, but is it not LL-01 approved? There must be a clear reason why it isn’t while the more “inferior” 5W40 is. My car is out of warranty but I am just curious.
All 0W40 oils lost LL01. Reason is higher natural oxidation that oils with true synthetics have.
BMW has most stringent oxidation requirements in industry. However, other parameters of their specification are not as stringent as MB229.5.
Any older BMW engine (M50, 52, 54, N51, 52, 54, 55, 62, 63, 63TU etc) are good with MB229.5. Current LL01 that was updated in 2018 is developed also with N20, B48/58 engines in mind. Why those engines need such stringent oxidation requirements IDK.
 
I emailed Castrol directly, and this is their response:

"According to Castrol’s lubrication guide recommended for the 2007 BMW 750Li 4.8L 8-cyl with the N62 engine is the following:

5W-30 or 5W-40 engine oil meeting BMW LongLife LL-01.

Castrol EDGE 0W-40 oil does not align to the oil grade recommended by BMW for this engine and would not be recommended for use in said vehicle. In this case, Castrol EDGE 5W-30 A3/B4 or Castrol EDGE 5W-40 would be the right choice.

While a certain grade of oil may be suitable for one vehicle, it does not mean it is best for your vehicle. The GRADE of oil depends on the vehicles engine design, and the GRADE recommended by the vehicle manufacturer is the BEST for your specific vehicle.

Oil flow is critical to proper engine protection. When your engine starts, the engine oil circulating throughout the engine must be pumped to reach critical engine parts. Using a grade that is too heavy can hamper the lubrication. Conversely, using a grade that is to light for your vehicle can hamper the high shear protection needed for your engine and can cause vehicle damage."
 
Back
Top