1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution

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Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
The problem is the 0w-20 in a turbo car. need a sheer stable oil in a turbo car. EU spec is acea a5 or a3

Sheer stability is always important. Don't want people seeing in, do we?
 
When I changed the oil at 5k on my '18 civic I completely forgot to fill the blackstone sample bottle.
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Ive read some threads on civicX that some people were getting around 4 quarts drained after a 10k oci which is interesting. Mine drained around 3.5 or so. I find that I suck trying to read the dip stick on this engine.

Someone mentioned Blackstone isnt the best for fuel dilution...so as someone new to oil analysis who do you recommend to send it off to? Ill be at 10k in another month and a half so hopefully i wont forgot to fill the sample again! I plan on changing the oil every 5k just to monitor the fuel dilution with this engine...but changing the oil 5-6 times a year gets old.
 
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I personally use Oil Analyzers. You can by their kits on amsoil site, with preferred customer subscription it comes out much cheaper for me since i’m buying their oil anyways. Although beware that they began charging for kits shipping which really sucks and makes no sense
 
Originally Posted By: Highkm



"trust the engineers", "trust the manufacturer", "follow your owners manual". No thanks. I'll use critical thinking in the best interest my assets. This UOA is a perfect example of why.

In case it hasn't been mentioned, this OCI was 6,964 miles. I would up the viscosity using a D1G2 5w30 at minimum and change at 5k miles at an absolute maximum until Honda solves this.
 
There’s a guy on civic x forum that is having engine replaced with 7000km only. Cam shaft damage due to “low oil visocity” as he claims.
 
Originally Posted By: parshisa
There’s a guy on civic x forum that is having engine replaced with 7000km only. Cam shaft damage due to “low oil visocity” as he claims.


That's terrible. Honda is so late to the DI game with no prior experience and are suffering from Gen 1 TGDI problems worse than other manufacturers when they had their Gen 1 DI systems, 2 or 3 generations ago. It's rather unfortunate
 
Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: Highkm



"trust the engineers", "trust the manufacturer", "follow your owners manual". No thanks. I'll use critical thinking in the best interest my assets. This UOA is a perfect example of why.

In case it hasn't been mentioned, this OCI was 6,964 miles. I would up the viscosity using a D1G2 5w30 at minimum and change at 5k miles at an absolute maximum until Honda solves this.


Yea I agree. Blindly following the manufacturer is just plain dumb. Let's see how many engines they will replace during this ordeal.

I still can't believe they actually released this engine to the public with these UOA results. Pathetic engineering.
 
dumb to run a turbo to 11KKM with FF.

Should have been out by 5K at the MOST

New engines shear the (edit-mod) out of oil.

Now you add in Fuel dilution.

Since ive had over 60 cars and over 50 NEW I have some experience here,.
 
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Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Your Honda factory fill oil will be as good as it gets. Changing to another synthetic won't help you one iota. If the fuel dilution issue persists & bothers you, maybe move to a 5W30. With the fuel dilution, it will over time 'thin' to around about a 0W20.
Mobil1 AFE 0w30 prescribed here. Yes, go up one grade in this case.
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Too much of the engine gets boundary lubrication when kv100 is 5.

Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
If you're feeling adventurous, talk to Honda about replacing the radiator cap; one with a higher temperature set-point. It might be what this engine needs to purge the condensed gas from the sump.
Do you mean go to a higher Fahrenheit thermostat? Cap is just a pressure vent for when things get really bad.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Your Honda factory fill oil will be as good as it gets. Changing to another synthetic won't help you one iota. If the fuel dilution issue persists & bothers you, maybe move to a 5W30. With the fuel dilution, it will over time 'thin' to around about a 0W20.
Mobil1 AFE 0w30 prescribed here. Yes, go up one grade in this case.
01.gif
Too much of the engine gets boundary lubrication when kv100 is 5.

Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
If you're feeling adventurous, talk to Honda about replacing the radiator cap; one with a higher temperature set-point. It might be what this engine needs to purge the condensed gas from the sump.
Do you mean go to a higher Fahrenheit thermostat? Cap is just a pressure vent for when things get really bad.



Do the mobil1 0w-30 have the acea a5 spec in us?
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
If you're feeling adventurous, talk to Honda about replacing the radiator cap; one with a higher temperature set-point. It might be what this engine needs to purge the condensed gas from the sump.
Do you mean go to a higher Fahrenheit thermostat? Cap is just a pressure vent for when things get really bad.

I'm not speaking for SoJ, but probably a thermostat with higher F is inferred that makes sense.
Yes, upping a viscosity grade to xW30 AND with ACEA specs would be my preference.
 
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Bjornviken and zeng, Mobil1 AFE 0w30 is not ACEA A5. Since its dexos1 Gen2, it does include higher performance specs that cover most of A5. GM's dexos1 Gen2 is better on wear than A5, but not as tough on piston deposits. (Mobil1 5w30 is available that is ACEA A5 for those that think they need it.)

The subject of this thread, a Honda 1.5L in the U.S., does not require A5 nor dexos1 for that matter. Honda just says use a 0w20 that has SN. Going to a 0w30 SN is plenty here.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Your Honda factory fill oil will be as good as it gets. Changing to another synthetic won't help you one iota. If the fuel dilution issue persists & bothers you, maybe move to a 5W30. With the fuel dilution, it will over time 'thin' to around about a 0W20.
Mobil1 AFE 0w30 prescribed here. Yes, go up one grade in this case.
01.gif
Too much of the engine gets boundary lubrication when kv100 is 5.

Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
If you're feeling adventurous, talk to Honda about replacing the radiator cap; one with a higher temperature set-point. It might be what this engine needs to purge the condensed gas from the sump.
Do you mean go to a higher Fahrenheit thermostat? Cap is just a pressure vent for when things get really bad.



Regarding radiator caps & thermostats, I have confessed on many occasions that I don't do 'mechanical'! The last time I actually took off a radiator cap was probably in 1978, on my old Austin 1100. My recollection back then was that the thermostat (which restricted the flow of coolant to the radiator) was a simple bi-metallic thingee integrated into the radiator cap itself. I humbly accept that things may have changed somewhat over the ensuing four decades!

But my point still stands. If the coolant thermostat is set too low (say 80°C) then in all likelihood, it will keep the engine oil temperature too low and any fuel dilution will be glacially slow to purge itself. A higher thermostat setting (especially in winter) might offer a 'cure' but only for longer distance drives. Obviously if you just pop down to the shops & back, the engine won't warm-up regardless of what the thermostat says.

Regarding 5 cst and boundary conditions; I don't think you can say that definitely. If you got the engine oil upto 150°C then I would absolutely agree with you but at that temperature, any gasoline would quickly be purged, so the oil's viscosity would revert to a less diluted, more normal level. At 100°C, hmm...I think your HTHS would still be in safe territory for the bearings. At an oil temperature of 80°C (which I think would be more consistent with driving in the kind of bitterly cold conditions that promote fuel dilution in the first place) then the KV of the oil, even with lots of fuel dilution, will be relatively high, so boundary conditions will almost certainly be avoided.

I tend to regard fuel dilution as God's way of helping engines in cold weather. Fuel dilution bought on my extreme cold will deffo help with cold startability and improve fuel economy during the warm-up phase.
 
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Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Bjornviken and zeng, Mobil1 AFE 0w30 is not ACEA A5. Since its dexos1 Gen2, it does include higher performance specs that cover most of A5. GM's dexos1 Gen2 is better on wear than A5, but not as tough on piston deposits. (Mobil1 5w30 is available that is ACEA A5 for those that think they need it.)

The subject of this thread, a Honda 1.5L in the U.S., does not require A5 nor dexos1 for that matter. Honda just says use a 0w20 that has SN. Going to a 0w30 SN is plenty here.



Yes it have dexos gen 2 but its still a acea a1. And A5 outperforms a A1 in a turbo engine according to the ACEA. We have Mobil 1 0w-30 api SL A5. Its rated to a api sl for its zddp levels.In a turbo Honda 0w-20 does not work according to uoa. I would go for the EU spec recommendation and see if its better. Would be nice to see how the annual protection(Mobil1) works. Hope they would bring it to the EU
 
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Originally Posted By: parshisa
There’s a guy on civic x forum that is having engine replaced with 7000km only. Cam shaft damage due to “low oil visocity” as he claims.


That's terrible. Honda is so late to the DI game with no prior experience and are suffering from Gen 1 TGDI problems worse than other manufacturers when they had their Gen 1 DI systems, 2 or 3 generations ago. It's rather unfortunate


Did you read the whole story? The guy just had his oil changed at the dealer, then it blows in a couple weeks? No way the oil sheared and failed that fast. The dealer screwed something up (over or under filled?)
 
oil dilution is simply an operational hazard. As engines get smaller and more efficient in order to deal with these EPA mandates, there really isn't much more any manufacturer can do. Oil dilution is nothing new. When you're shoving 14 pounds of boost mixed with fuel into a cylinder and no matter how "tight" the rings are, some of it will be forced through the cylinder. It's GOING to happen. Everybody is freaking out about this when you look at civic and crv forums. Almost a knee jerk reaction without understanding the situation. In the case of short drives, that is considered extreme and EVERY manufacturer tells you in the owners manual to change the oil way more frequently, say around 5K or so. Nothing new there.
 
Originally Posted by Schmoe
oil dilution is simply an operational hazard. As engines get smaller and more efficient in order to deal with these EPA mandates, there really isn't much more any manufacturer can do. Oil dilution is nothing new. When you're shoving 14 pounds of boost mixed with fuel into a cylinder and no matter how "tight" the rings are, some of it will be forced through the cylinder. It's GOING to happen. Everybody is freaking out about this when you look at civic and crv forums. Almost a knee jerk reaction without understanding the situation. In the case of short drives, that is considered extreme and EVERY manufacturer tells you in the owners manual to change the oil way more frequently, say around 5K or so. Nothing new there.


It may be "normal" but it is not *optimal*. Keep in mind these cars have OLMs, which dictate OCI. More often than not they do not adjust adequately to accommodate the extreme use case you mentioned. Recommending low viscosity weight oil, when user experiences have shown a 20-25% reduction in viscosity, is irresponsible. Couple that with severe service short trips, and you have an engine that I would not want to buy used. These are legitimate concerns, not flights of fancy.
 
And Honda constantly pushing for 10k miles on FF? This sample shows how wrong Honda is.!
This oil is beat up and had been bet up for at least half the duration.
Now that you changed it, do a 4k mile or 6j km next time and take it from there how to access the interval. 10k miles is what it is and usually doesn't work on new engines and for some drivers.
 
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