Toyota ATF WS
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Originally Posted by NH73
My biggest beef is WS is not full synthetic. Many things are really said. But so far, a lot seemed happy using Valvoline Maxlife. I know WS is specced for Hybrids as well. Is there anything I need to consider vs. a conventional gas car.
Whether it is full synthetic or not it is irrelevant. Porsche PDK is not running on full synthetic, but work like a charm in absolute monsters of vehicles. Final product is what matters.
My biggest beef is WS is not full synthetic. Many things are really said. But so far, a lot seemed happy using Valvoline Maxlife. I know WS is specced for Hybrids as well. Is there anything I need to consider vs. a conventional gas car.
Whether it is full synthetic or not it is irrelevant. Porsche PDK is not running on full synthetic, but work like a charm in absolute monsters of vehicles. Final product is what matters.
Originally Posted by NH73
Originally Posted by Gebo
Maybe what the owner's manual says???
Yep, your car will fall apart, exploded, if you don't use what is badged by the auto manufacturer. Yes, we are allowed to use something else.
C'mon, surely you know what I mean. You asked a question as to what you should consider as to a conventional car. I merely suggested seeing what the owner's manual said. That's where I would start.
Probably 75% of our discussions here are us trying to find a cheaper, better or alternative way vs what our owner's manual says. Different ATF's, different oil viscosities, different coolants, different oil filters, etc. I'm all about that as well.
But after doing a lot of car maintenance on probably 12 cars a year average (you should see my lower driveway) for the last 30 years, I am slowly leaning more towards the owner's manual.
Originally Posted by Gebo
Maybe what the owner's manual says???
Yep, your car will fall apart, exploded, if you don't use what is badged by the auto manufacturer. Yes, we are allowed to use something else.
C'mon, surely you know what I mean. You asked a question as to what you should consider as to a conventional car. I merely suggested seeing what the owner's manual said. That's where I would start.
Probably 75% of our discussions here are us trying to find a cheaper, better or alternative way vs what our owner's manual says. Different ATF's, different oil viscosities, different coolants, different oil filters, etc. I'm all about that as well.
But after doing a lot of car maintenance on probably 12 cars a year average (you should see my lower driveway) for the last 30 years, I am slowly leaning more towards the owner's manual.
Originally Posted by Gebo
...
C'mon, surely you know what I mean. You asked a question as to what you should consider as to a conventional car. I merely suggested seeing what the owner's manual said. That's where I would start.
Probably 75% of our discussions here are us trying to find a cheaper, better or alternative way vs what our owner's manual says. Different ATF's, different oil viscosities, different coolants, different oil filters, etc. I'm all about that as well.
But after doing a lot of car maintenance on probably 12 cars a year average (you should see my lower driveway) for the last 30 years, I am slowly leaning more towards the owner's manual.
I agree the owners manual is a place to start, but is not the end all.
As we all know, there are alternatives (some better, some cheaper, sometimes better and cheaper) for fluids and other parts that work quite well.
Using the suggested owners manual fluid or item is a guarantee to fit and work. Does not mean best.
I do regular maintenance on 7 vehicles, I am now down to 1 ATF for all of them.
No need to have Merc V, Dex VI, SP-III, SP-IV, and WS on the shelf when Maxlife ATF works will in all of them.
Same for coolant and oil. If I can consolidate my on hand supplies, why not?
...
C'mon, surely you know what I mean. You asked a question as to what you should consider as to a conventional car. I merely suggested seeing what the owner's manual said. That's where I would start.
Probably 75% of our discussions here are us trying to find a cheaper, better or alternative way vs what our owner's manual says. Different ATF's, different oil viscosities, different coolants, different oil filters, etc. I'm all about that as well.
But after doing a lot of car maintenance on probably 12 cars a year average (you should see my lower driveway) for the last 30 years, I am slowly leaning more towards the owner's manual.
I agree the owners manual is a place to start, but is not the end all.
As we all know, there are alternatives (some better, some cheaper, sometimes better and cheaper) for fluids and other parts that work quite well.
Using the suggested owners manual fluid or item is a guarantee to fit and work. Does not mean best.
I do regular maintenance on 7 vehicles, I am now down to 1 ATF for all of them.
No need to have Merc V, Dex VI, SP-III, SP-IV, and WS on the shelf when Maxlife ATF works will in all of them.
Same for coolant and oil. If I can consolidate my on hand supplies, why not?
Originally Posted by blupupher
Originally Posted by Gebo
...
C'mon, surely you know what I mean. You asked a question as to what you should consider as to a conventional car. I merely suggested seeing what the owner's manual said. That's where I would start.
Probably 75% of our discussions here are us trying to find a cheaper, better or alternative way vs what our owner's manual says. Different ATF's, different oil viscosities, different coolants, different oil filters, etc. I'm all about that as well.
But after doing a lot of car maintenance on probably 12 cars a year average (you should see my lower driveway) for the last 30 years, I am slowly leaning more towards the owner's manual.
I agree the owners manual is a place to start, but is not the end all.
As we all know, there are alternatives (some better, some cheaper, sometimes better and cheaper) for fluids and other parts that work quite well.
Using the suggested owners manual fluid or item is a guarantee to fit and work. Does not mean best.
I do regular maintenance on 7 vehicles, I am now down to 1 ATF for all of them.
No need to have Merc V, Dex VI, SP-III, SP-IV, and WS on the shelf when Maxlife ATF works will in all of them.
Same for coolant and oil. If I can consolidate my on hand supplies, why not?
Of course you most certainly can consolidate. You believe Maxlife ATF is a fluid that meets all of the specs you have listed. I get that. It's just that I don't believe that. I have Toyota Dexron, T-IV, WS, Mazda M5, etc stored in my garage. I used to use both of the Amsoil ATF's until I did my study and research. I now choose to use what the car mfr specifies.
Will my choice of keeping all those different ATF's make "my" cars last longer? Will those specific ATF's make the cars shift better? IDK?? I do believe I am doing what is best for "my" cars. I plan on keeping my cars for 300k and more. There is nothing wrong with anyone disagreeing with me.
Originally Posted by Gebo
...
C'mon, surely you know what I mean. You asked a question as to what you should consider as to a conventional car. I merely suggested seeing what the owner's manual said. That's where I would start.
Probably 75% of our discussions here are us trying to find a cheaper, better or alternative way vs what our owner's manual says. Different ATF's, different oil viscosities, different coolants, different oil filters, etc. I'm all about that as well.
But after doing a lot of car maintenance on probably 12 cars a year average (you should see my lower driveway) for the last 30 years, I am slowly leaning more towards the owner's manual.
I agree the owners manual is a place to start, but is not the end all.
As we all know, there are alternatives (some better, some cheaper, sometimes better and cheaper) for fluids and other parts that work quite well.
Using the suggested owners manual fluid or item is a guarantee to fit and work. Does not mean best.
I do regular maintenance on 7 vehicles, I am now down to 1 ATF for all of them.
No need to have Merc V, Dex VI, SP-III, SP-IV, and WS on the shelf when Maxlife ATF works will in all of them.
Same for coolant and oil. If I can consolidate my on hand supplies, why not?
Of course you most certainly can consolidate. You believe Maxlife ATF is a fluid that meets all of the specs you have listed. I get that. It's just that I don't believe that. I have Toyota Dexron, T-IV, WS, Mazda M5, etc stored in my garage. I used to use both of the Amsoil ATF's until I did my study and research. I now choose to use what the car mfr specifies.
Will my choice of keeping all those different ATF's make "my" cars last longer? Will those specific ATF's make the cars shift better? IDK?? I do believe I am doing what is best for "my" cars. I plan on keeping my cars for 300k and more. There is nothing wrong with anyone disagreeing with me.
Originally Posted by Gebo
...
Will my choice of keeping all those different ATF's make "my" cars last longer? Will those specific ATF's make the cars shift better? IDK?? I do believe I am doing what is best for "my" cars. I plan on keeping my cars for 300k and more. There is nothing wrong with anyone disagreeing with me.
Not disagreeing with you, actually agree.
You are using what you feel is best and meets your needs and best for your vehicles.
I believe Maxlife meets the needs of my current fleet and makes it easier to maintain. My vehicles and expected outcomes are not the same as anyone else.
Some transmissions are very fluid specific dependent, and there are some transmissions I would not use Maxlife in, but currently is not my case.
But we are also doing something that most car owners do not, and this is service our transmissions.
I would bet OEM fluid with 75,000 miles is more out of spec than an aftermarket fluid that is "close to" OEM spec.
...
Will my choice of keeping all those different ATF's make "my" cars last longer? Will those specific ATF's make the cars shift better? IDK?? I do believe I am doing what is best for "my" cars. I plan on keeping my cars for 300k and more. There is nothing wrong with anyone disagreeing with me.
Not disagreeing with you, actually agree.
You are using what you feel is best and meets your needs and best for your vehicles.
I believe Maxlife meets the needs of my current fleet and makes it easier to maintain. My vehicles and expected outcomes are not the same as anyone else.
Some transmissions are very fluid specific dependent, and there are some transmissions I would not use Maxlife in, but currently is not my case.
But we are also doing something that most car owners do not, and this is service our transmissions.
I would bet OEM fluid with 75,000 miles is more out of spec than an aftermarket fluid that is "close to" OEM spec.
Originally Posted by blupupher
Originally Posted by Gebo
...
Will my choice of keeping all those different ATF's make "my" cars last longer? Will those specific ATF's make the cars shift better? IDK?? I do believe I am doing what is best for "my" cars. I plan on keeping my cars for 300k and more. There is nothing wrong with anyone disagreeing with me.
Not disagreeing with you, actually agree.
You are using what you feel is best and meets your needs and best for your vehicles.
I believe Maxlife meets the needs of my current fleet and makes it easier to maintain. My vehicles and expected outcomes are not the same as anyone else.
Some transmissions are very fluid specific dependent, and there are some transmissions I would not use Maxlife in, but currently is not my case.
But we are also doing something that most car owners do not, and this is service our transmissions.
I would bet OEM fluid with 75,000 miles is more out of spec than an aftermarket fluid that is "close to" OEM spec.
Originally Posted by Gebo
...
Will my choice of keeping all those different ATF's make "my" cars last longer? Will those specific ATF's make the cars shift better? IDK?? I do believe I am doing what is best for "my" cars. I plan on keeping my cars for 300k and more. There is nothing wrong with anyone disagreeing with me.
Not disagreeing with you, actually agree.
You are using what you feel is best and meets your needs and best for your vehicles.
I believe Maxlife meets the needs of my current fleet and makes it easier to maintain. My vehicles and expected outcomes are not the same as anyone else.
Some transmissions are very fluid specific dependent, and there are some transmissions I would not use Maxlife in, but currently is not my case.
But we are also doing something that most car owners do not, and this is service our transmissions.
I would bet OEM fluid with 75,000 miles is more out of spec than an aftermarket fluid that is "close to" OEM spec.
Originally Posted by Gebo
Of course you most certainly can consolidate. You believe Maxlife ATF is a fluid that meets all of the specs you have listed. I get that. It's just that I don't believe that. I have Toyota Dexron, T-IV, WS, Mazda M5, etc stored in my garage. I used to use both of the Amsoil ATF's until I did my study and research. I now choose to use what the car mfr specifies.
TBH, the things I used MaxLife in worked well - mostly. My parent's Sienna had some odd shift flutter. A spill and fill with T-IV fixed that. My old LS400 did OK on ML, I liked the shift feel with Castrol IMV instead. But, I did use MaxLife on a Nissan-Matic S application and it was fine.
I wouldn't use MaxLife in a Toyota/Ford hybrid, however since Ford is using many of Toyota's patents a "universal" fluid approved for Mercon LV could work.
Of course you most certainly can consolidate. You believe Maxlife ATF is a fluid that meets all of the specs you have listed. I get that. It's just that I don't believe that. I have Toyota Dexron, T-IV, WS, Mazda M5, etc stored in my garage. I used to use both of the Amsoil ATF's until I did my study and research. I now choose to use what the car mfr specifies.
TBH, the things I used MaxLife in worked well - mostly. My parent's Sienna had some odd shift flutter. A spill and fill with T-IV fixed that. My old LS400 did OK on ML, I liked the shift feel with Castrol IMV instead. But, I did use MaxLife on a Nissan-Matic S application and it was fine.
I wouldn't use MaxLife in a Toyota/Ford hybrid, however since Ford is using many of Toyota's patents a "universal" fluid approved for Mercon LV could work.
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by Gebo
Of course you most certainly can consolidate. You believe Maxlife ATF is a fluid that meets all of the specs you have listed. I get that. It's just that I don't believe that. I have Toyota Dexron, T-IV, WS, Mazda M5, etc stored in my garage. I used to use both of the Amsoil ATF's until I did my study and research. I now choose to use what the car mfr specifies.
TBH, the things I used MaxLife in worked well - mostly. My parent's Sienna had some odd shift flutter. A spill and fill with T-IV fixed that. My old LS400 did OK on ML, I liked the shift feel with Castrol IMV instead. But, I did use MaxLife on a Nissan-Matic S application and it was fine.
I wouldn't use MaxLife in a Toyota/Ford hybrid, however since Ford is using many of Toyota's patents a "universal" fluid approved for Mercon LV could work.
My thing is I like to use full synthetic ATF. I am not going to say they are better than OEM ATF, just I know in most cases, they will last longer than most OEM's ATF that are usually conventional or Semi-Synthetic. Seen it in my 2004 Ford Explorer Sport Trac. OEM fluid was darkening at 46,000 miles, the full synthetic ATF replacement fluid(done by a dealer) is still red after 58,500 miles since the change. My RAV4 Hybrid is not ready, but when it is, I would prefer a full synthetic ATF over WS. Does Ford use the same or similar transmissions?
Originally Posted by Gebo
Of course you most certainly can consolidate. You believe Maxlife ATF is a fluid that meets all of the specs you have listed. I get that. It's just that I don't believe that. I have Toyota Dexron, T-IV, WS, Mazda M5, etc stored in my garage. I used to use both of the Amsoil ATF's until I did my study and research. I now choose to use what the car mfr specifies.
TBH, the things I used MaxLife in worked well - mostly. My parent's Sienna had some odd shift flutter. A spill and fill with T-IV fixed that. My old LS400 did OK on ML, I liked the shift feel with Castrol IMV instead. But, I did use MaxLife on a Nissan-Matic S application and it was fine.
I wouldn't use MaxLife in a Toyota/Ford hybrid, however since Ford is using many of Toyota's patents a "universal" fluid approved for Mercon LV could work.
My thing is I like to use full synthetic ATF. I am not going to say they are better than OEM ATF, just I know in most cases, they will last longer than most OEM's ATF that are usually conventional or Semi-Synthetic. Seen it in my 2004 Ford Explorer Sport Trac. OEM fluid was darkening at 46,000 miles, the full synthetic ATF replacement fluid(done by a dealer) is still red after 58,500 miles since the change. My RAV4 Hybrid is not ready, but when it is, I would prefer a full synthetic ATF over WS. Does Ford use the same or similar transmissions?
I run Maxlife in all my vehicles. No problems. Its a full synthetic fluid and works well for me. My 2003 has had the Maxlife since it had 85,000 miles on it. It shifts smooth at 209,000 miles. Get whatever you feel will work whether its Maxlife of Toyota.
Here is an interesting exert from the RAV4 world concerning Hybrid transmissions: "the RAV4 hybrid uses a planetary that just sits in a bath of fluid. No hydraulic pressure, no shifting gears, doesn't even go into reverse. It just sits and spins." So what I am seeing here is that those real special friction modifiers in the WS that many believe only works with a Toyota transmission, isn't necessary in the hybrid transmissions. In other words, it would be probably less critical about using WS in a hybrid transmission than Toyota's conventional transmissions.
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