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#99145 - 08/31/04 05:41 AM VW and Audi oil sludge issues . . .
2x Offline


Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 66
Loc: Massachusetts
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=948&scid=122

Looks like Audi/VW is suffering from the same issues as Toyota and Dodge did. Those of you who own one of these and were thinking about an extended OCI think twice about that decision and what oil you use [Cool]

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#99146 - 08/31/04 05:48 AM Re: VW and Audi oil sludge issues . . .
XS650 Offline



Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 12385
Loc: Northern CA
quote:
Originally posted by 2x:
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=948&scid=122

Looks like Audi/VW is suffering from the same issues as Toyota and Dodge did. Those of you who own one of these and were thinking about an extended OCI think twice about that decision and what oil you use [Cool]

Does the sludge build on the heads where you can see it though the oil fill, or does it hide deep in the bowels of the engine?

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#99147 - 08/31/04 05:57 AM Re: VW and Audi oil sludge issues . . .
Curtis Newton Offline


Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 649
Loc: Colorado
I find it interesting that VW of America requires 5,000 mile oil changes, however Audi of America recommends 10,000 mile oil changes. In the VW letter, it mentions you must be able to prove an oil change every 5K/6 months, however, in the Audi letter, there is no such reference.

Since this is the same engine, you would think they would be the same.

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#99148 - 08/31/04 06:25 AM Re: VW and Audi oil sludge issues . . .
JohnBrowning Offline


Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 9448
Loc: USA
This is what happens when you make a design change no matter how small and do not re-validate the powertrain. I would not be suprised to find out that they too pushed up coolant temps in the head area to get better emissions.

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#99149 - 08/31/04 08:03 AM Re: VW and Audi oil sludge issues . . .
Ken2 Offline


Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 6161
Loc: Washington St.
Isn't the problem turbocharger related? My local VW dealer uses bulk 76 5W-30 with 5000 mile ODI unless synthetic oil is specifically asked for.


Ken

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#99150 - 08/31/04 08:54 AM Re: VW and Audi oil sludge issues . . .
Finklejag Offline


Registered: 11/23/03
Posts: 1442
Loc: Vancouver, WA
When I owned my 03 A4 1.8T. My local dealer used Havoline 5W-30 for their 10K service. I say 90% of VW/Audi dealers use bulk dino oil for their oil changes. It goes against everything they print in the owners manual for the turbo motors.

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#99151 - 08/31/04 09:18 AM Re: VW and Audi oil sludge issues . . .
Terry Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 3845
Loc: Greenville , Texas
From most recent Lube Report;
"Oil Sludge Bedevils VW
In an effort to address engine problems caused by oil sludge, Volkswagen of America recently extended warranty coverage on two models of turbocharged cars, news reports say. The company mailed notices to approximately 425,000 owners of VW Passats and Audi A4s, but declined to project the cost of the program."

More follows.

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#99152 - 08/31/04 09:54 AM Re: VW and Audi oil sludge issues . . .
Audi Junkie Offline


Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 11247
Loc: PA
The headline of all those articles should say, "API oil SUCKS". The oil pump pick-up is what gets clogged. My cuz went from zero-maintenance Rabitts and Jettas to 1.8t Passat and snapped a TB at 175k. Mechanic (not mine) put it together with new valves and TB to find low OP. Too bad for her. Her husband is a Navy pilot and should have known better. Moral is: you cannot help those who don't want help. Also my female friend who used Mobil 1 5w-30 at 10,000/1 yr needed a pump in her 1.8t at 65k. She used a local monkey-garage, green antifreeze, etc...they probally ripped her and put in extra-sludgy oil. [Frown]

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#99153 - 08/31/04 10:14 AM Re: VW and Audi oil sludge issues . . .
Terry Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 3845
Loc: Greenville , Texas
Audi Junkie, agreed, "API sucks", at least the licensing game.


Note: not one of my customers running those engines has a sludge issue and some sample only annually.

Secret, spend the cash to periodically flush with Auto-Rx and then run LC to control oxidation. Won't matter what oil you run. You won't have a sludge issue.

TD

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#99154 - 08/31/04 02:54 PM Re: VW and Audi oil sludge issues . . .
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46632
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Lube report article

I have a buddy that just bought a Toyota....he's asking me...: "Why do the receipts show the engine being torn down at 50K?" and "What is this sludge problem, there sure is lots of chat on the web about it ?"

Use a good oil, use some cleaners if you use a petroleum oil or push the OCI limit.

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#99155 - 08/31/04 06:18 PM Re: VW and Audi oil sludge issues . . .
dB Offline


Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 89
Loc: indy
quote:
Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
This is what happens when you make a design change no matter how small and do not re-validate the powertrain. I would not be suprised to find out that they too pushed up coolant temps in the head area to get better emissions.

That's interesting because when I replaced the t-stat in my 2000 A4 2.8 30V V6, the guy asked what the engine code was. My ATQ engine used a higher temp t-stat than the AHA engine, which is essentially the same but the version before mine.

I'm surprised that their having sludge issues. Seems out of the ordinary for VW/Audi engines.

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#99156 - 08/31/04 07:06 PM Re: VW and Audi oil sludge issues . . .
VeeDubb Offline


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 2047
Loc: Indiana
I think it was only a matter of time before the sh$t hit the fan for 1.8T engines. Long before this letter came out, VW owners on vwvortex and clubb5 were wondering what VW dealers were thinking using dino oil in a turbo engine with a 3.9 quart sump.

I think if all dealers followed the owners manual and usd VW502 oil the 5k OCI was not exceeded, this engine would be fine. But combine dino oil with 5k changes or any oil with 10k changes, and we could have predicted this outcome.

As for Audi, my guess is that the 10k OCI recommendation is a product of the free 50k maintenance. Hey, 10k changes save them money over 5k changes and will get the average owner through the warranty period. A good, if not crooked, business move.

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#99157 - 08/31/04 07:27 PM Re: VW and Audi oil sludge issues . . .
ekpolk Offline
The Regenerator


Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 8881
Loc: Pensacola FL
quote:
Originally posted by dB:
quote:
Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
This is what happens when you make a design change no matter how small and do not re-validate the powertrain. I would not be suprised to find out that they too pushed up coolant temps in the head area to get better emissions.

That's interesting because when I replaced the t-stat in my 2000 A4 2.8 30V V6, the guy asked what the engine code was. My ATQ engine used a higher temp t-stat than the AHA engine, which is essentially the same but the version before mine.

I'm surprised that their having sludge issues. Seems out of the ordinary for VW/Audi engines.

You're surprised? Welcome to the club. Trust me, a lot of Toyota owners were surprised a few years ago too. Sludge seemed pretty out of character for Toyota also. I guess the moral is that even the best manufacturers are pushing to the very edge of the envelope to achieve competitive performance and emissions goals. So, whether you're driving what's perceived to be a high-quality brand, or an old "disposable" car, you'd better keep ahead of oil changing minimums.

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#99158 - 09/01/04 09:48 AM Re: VW and Audi oil sludge issues . . .
Eric Peterman Offline


Registered: 07/15/04
Posts: 20
Loc: N. Coast, CA
I'm known as "Mr. Auto-Rx" over on the ClubB5.com forum. After replacing my own oil pump and turbo (DIY) on my '98 1.8t Passat with 100k due to sludge blocking the oil intake screen I started the search for solutions and ended up here and began using ARX.

I cleaned the pan out (very crusty and varnished with up to 1/8" of baked on crud) and put the engine back together and ran an ARX clean/rinse. Oil consumption went from 1 qt/2500 miles to zero, the occassional puff of blue smoke on cold startup went away and the engine became ultra-quiet and smooth.

These engines have too small a sump, so I've gone to the Napa 1333 "Big Kahuna" oil filter and I run a 3oz maint dose of ARX. Incidentally, the problem comes mostly from coking of the oil at the turbo. It produces what VW mechanics call, affectionately, "turbo-turds"... hard coked, coffee ground-like particles.

People on ClubB5 are flipping out over the extended warranty and having to prove they changed their oil with synth, etc. I feel like a broken record but I try to interject that they should proactively solve the problem with ARX and perhaps LC instead of fretting over getting warranty coverage once their engine fails.

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#99159 - 08/31/04 10:00 PM Re: VW and Audi oil sludge issues . . .
Eric Peterman Offline


Registered: 07/15/04
Posts: 20
Loc: N. Coast, CA
Among many others I'd like to say "thanks" to Terry Dyson for his practical advice on the forum regarding ARX and LC for the treatment and prevention of sludge and varnish.

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