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#947945 - 07/22/07 05:29 PM Re: Wagons the dying breed, loss of two market ent [Re: Lonnie]
Matt_S Offline


Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 3094
Loc: Metro Detroit
Quote:

Wagons here are called SUV's.




Actually, it's more like Crossovers (car-based SUVs). An SUV to me is built on a truck platform. A Crossover looks like an SUV, but is a unibody platform. I'm thinking about vehicles like the Ford Edge, Saturn Outlook, Honda CRV, etc.

Saturn is coming out with the Astra in a 3 and 5 door format. The 5 door is basically a small wagon and is getting very good reviews so far.
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#947946 - 07/22/07 05:54 PM Re: Wagons the dying breed [Re: BrianWC]
rjundi Offline


Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 6587
Loc: New England
Quote:

I can't see how it matters about dropping the regular Legacy Wagon. They've made the Outback wagons so impressive, who cares? The new Outbacks are really tempting.




Outback = jacked up legacy with lessor handling(its the exact car with suspension modifications and differing trim). Outbacks handle okay however a Legacy is another realm with its low center of gravity.

I guess I just love great handling wagons with a fun to drive factor.
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#947947 - 07/22/07 05:58 PM Re: Wagons the dying breed [Re: rjundi]
rjundi Offline


Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 6587
Loc: New England
I forgot to add another decent and inexpensive decent handling wagon was dropped in the last year....Ford Focus Wagon
_________________________
2005 Legacy GT wagon 5mt - 172k - Mobil 5000/OEM Subie filter

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#947948 - 07/22/07 06:17 PM Re: Wagons the dying breed [Re: rjundi]
1sttruck Offline


Registered: 03/20/04
Posts: 4378
Loc: Camas, WA
Automotive fashion exhibits what's best about the great, unwashed masses in the US; instead of a wagon or sedan get a SUV that is taller so that rolls easier, weighs more so that it gets worse mileage, has a 'heavy duty' suspension that might have big arms hanging down providing less clearance than a Taurus, and these days often seems to be lowered with low profile street tires on fancy wheels (some with spinners) so that you can look good while doing 360s across the highway before rolling. But it's a bargain as it usually doesn't twice as much as a wagon or sedan.

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#947949 - 07/22/07 06:25 PM Re: Wagons the dying breed [Re: rjundi]
BrianWC Offline


Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 6873
Loc: Louisiana
Oh I know it's the same car. But it's sorta like the situation with the WRX. Who buys a "base" Impreza? Same with the Legacy wagon.....Hey, at least they have that Forester Sports XT. That's a seriously mean lookin' Scoobie wagon!
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#947950 - 07/22/07 07:15 PM Re: Wagons the dying breed [Re: BrianWC]
kkreit01 Offline


Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 3836
Loc: Olathe, KS
I've always liked wagons. I like the Forenza, Focus, 6, Subbies, etc. My wife doesn't like them. Thus, we've had Explorers, Minivan, and now mini-ute. The FWD Mariner is a nice trade off: mileage = 23/26, 30 cu-ft. of cargo, etc.
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#947951 - 07/22/07 07:26 PM Re: Wagons the dying breed [Re: BrianWC]
BGK Offline


Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 564
Loc: Northern California
Crossovers are too tall for my taste and most get gas mileage much worse than typical cars. If only Honda, Toyota and Nissan would bring back state of the art Accord, Camry and Maxima wagons; with awd and diesels!

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#947952 - 07/22/07 07:29 PM Re: Wagons the dying breed [Re: kkreit01]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 26511
Loc: Michigan
When I was growing up, we had a bunch of wagons in my family... '92 Ford Escort, '97 Opel Vectra, '99 Nissan Primera (my dad's current car), and '03 Volvo V40 (my mom's current car). The added cargo space was the main decision why my parents bought them as they used to haul a bunch of stuff quite often. Personally, I don't care for the looks of a typical wagon, apart from maybe a couple of euro ones like the Audi A4/S4/RS4. There is something about a powerful and quick wagon that makes it appealing.


As for the original questions about the dying breed of wagons, I agree with previous posters - in the US they are being replaced by crossover SUVs and the constant push for bigger vehicles to accomodate bigger average Americans and
offer five million cupholders.
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#947953 - 07/22/07 07:31 PM Re: Wagons the dying breed [Re: BGK]
BrianWC Offline


Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 6873
Loc: Louisiana
I think the new RAV4 is a great wagon alternative with it's high 20 mpg and quick v-6. I liked the old one when we shopped for the CR-V 5 years ago but it had waay to little cargo space.
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#947954 - 07/22/07 08:08 PM Re: Wagons the dying breed [Re: BrianWC]
rjundi Offline


Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 6587
Loc: New England
Quote:

I think the new RAV4 is a great wagon alternative with it's high 20 mpg and quick v-6. I liked the old one when we shopped for the CR-V 5 years ago but it had waay to little cargo space.




Its ok but the handling is nothing special. The v-6 is very powerful however I think the engine weight takes away from its handling and driving fun/dynamics. My sister took 4 cylinder and 6 cyl for extended test drives. I took each through the twisties and a CRV and none have anything near a sedan/wagon handling.

btw she only gets 22MPG overall with the 2007 4 cylinder AWD RAV4 and is not a lead foot. The roominess is nice though.
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2005 Legacy GT wagon 5mt - 172k - Mobil 5000/OEM Subie filter

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#947955 - 07/22/07 08:30 PM Re: Wagons the dying breed [Re: rjundi]
Aldaris Offline


Registered: 11/29/06
Posts: 1174
Loc: United States
Good riddance. Can't wait for the ugly Volvo wagons to go too!
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#947956 - 07/22/07 08:34 PM Re: Wagons the dying breed [Re: Aldaris]
Bamaro Offline


Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1121
Loc: Balto.
They crossed wagons with minivans, threw in some slick marketing and came up with SUVs.
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#947957 - 07/22/07 08:38 PM Re: Wagons the dying breed [Re: Aldaris]
JackFish Offline


Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 289
Loc: Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
I keep bringing mine back to life:


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#947958 - 07/22/07 08:43 PM Re: Wagons the dying breed [Re: rjundi]
BrianWC Offline


Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 6873
Loc: Louisiana
Quote:



btw she only gets 22MPG overall with the 2007 4 cylinder AWD RAV4 and is not a lead foot. The roominess is nice though.




I haven't even checked to see what the revised 08 mpg is. I know, according to the EPA site, my 02 CR-V awd auto took a hit and went from 27 or 28 down to 24. I never, ever got 27 mpg.

Hey, I saw a bit of wagon news that cancels out ALL the negatives in this thread-BMW is offering a 535 xi wagon when the model refresh appears.

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2002 Honda CR-V EX AWD
2009 Honda Odyssey EX-L
2014 Ford Mustang GT

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#947959 - 07/22/07 08:56 PM Re: Wagons the dying breed [Re: BrianWC]
bob_ninja Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 571
Loc: Ottawa, ON, Canada
This is why Honda CRV is more of a wagon than SUV. My older 4 cyl model still gets a reasonable 25 mpg, has a more or less comparable interior space to older wagons, but cannot haul much or go off road.

I agree that most SUVs are too big and have too big engines, horrible mpg.

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