Recent Topics
2AZ-FE head bolt removal socket
by 01_celica_gt
11 minutes 47 seconds ago
Sealants/Syn Waxes with good UV protection
by Robenstein
Today at 05:02 PM
Amusing TPMS issue
by OVERKILL
Today at 04:04 PM
$10 off all $50 gas cards at Publix
by LT4 Vette
Today at 03:56 PM
Cyber Monday good for computer prices
by oilboy123
Today at 03:29 PM
AAARRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGG
GGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!

by Oldmoparguy1
Today at 03:01 PM
Ariens Snowblower Issue
by My442
Today at 02:31 PM
going back to green.
by chaindrive
Today at 02:29 PM
3rd time's the charm (Cruze water pump)?
by sciphi
Today at 12:58 PM
Netgear Nighthawk ac1900 router <90$ walmart YMMV
by Rand
Today at 12:33 PM
Barn car tires worth saving?
by subaru1991
Today at 12:32 PM
Dexos 1 Question
by Sierra048
Today at 12:08 PM
Newest Members
GON, Jo5eph, Kernel, EdBurns, wolf9832
52014 Registered Users
Who's Online
70 registered (Bloodknights, Astro14, Atlantis, 01_celica_gt, AdRock, Blaze, 9 invisible), 1576 Guests and 158 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
52014 Members
66 Forums
222724 Topics
3525996 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#926787 - 06/24/07 08:33 AM 2007 Honda Rincon TRX680FA ATV oil change
sthompson Offline


Registered: 06/19/05
Posts: 40
Loc: Tennessee
Hello gents,
I own the above mentioned ATV and I'm coming up on my first specified oil change at 20 hours/100 miles. The Honda manual recommends JASO T 903 MA rated 10w-30 oil for temps of 15f and upward (my area). It also "allows" 5w-30, 0w-30 and 10w-40. I have two questions before I go from here on the oil change.

Question one: Is this "too early" to move to synthetic? Doing a search on this site and on various atv forums, I note a distinct shift of opinion regarding atv's as compared to autos. It seems that the general consensus is to allow more break in time with atv engines whereas the opinion with autos is to make the shift early to synthetic. So, when do you think is the ideal time to shift this engine to a synthetic application, if at all, or do atv owners here prefer dino?

Question two: I note that while "thin is in" for auto engines, it seems that most atv owners are using the highest recommended viscosities. In the case of this Honda 680 wet clutch engine, users appear to favor the Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10w-40, the Amsoil MCF 10w-40 or the AFF 4-stroke Powersports 0w-40. Others use Rotella T 5w-40 or the Golden Spectro 10w-40. With the manufacturer's recommendation being the 10w-30, is there a reason folks are shying away from that viscosity?

Almost every engine I own uses synthetic, mostly Amsoil, and I'd like this one to follow suit. Opinions please?

Top
#926788 - 06/24/07 09:03 AM Re: 2007 Honda Rincon TRX680FA ATV oil change [Re: sthompson]
wileyE Offline


Registered: 11/18/04
Posts: 1967
Loc: Kitsap, WA
One reason they might shy away from the 10w30 is it's hard to find Jaso MA in that grade, most are energy conserving friction reduced oils. Honda is moving to 10w30 in many of their bikes (have for years now), but the market is still stuck in the bikes need thick oils tradition. Not sure who's right, but that's another reason some may shy away from the 10w30. If it were mine I'd run hd30 dino in it till it has about 50 hours than switch to whatever blows your skirt up.

Top
#926789 - 06/24/07 03:35 PM Re: 2007 Honda Rincon TRX680FA ATV oil change [Re: sthompson]
browning300wsm Offline


Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 242
Loc: quebec....canada
i have a HONDA RUBICON[2002] with 7,000 kilometers and have used AMSOIL 0-40 from day one ..i change filter and oil once a year .i use my ATV in the winter and we get -25 often.the RINCON like the RUBICON have auto- trans. and need the quality oil ..only advise i can give u [don't] use the high pressure washer on ur ATV ..it is murder on ur sensors ...
_________________________
i question my SANITY for purchasing a 3.5 ..5 cyl.

repaired my sanity sold the 3.5 colorado ..got a jeep liberty 3.7

Top
#926790 - 06/24/07 03:44 PM Re: 2007 Honda Rincon TRX680FA ATV oil change [Re: sthompson]
daman Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 10490
Loc: Bad Axe, MI
I would maybe wait one more OCI then use either
Mobil 1's Racing 4T 10w-40,or Amsoil's MCF 10w-40,
i use Amsoil's MCV 20w50 in my air cooled ATV's because
they run so hot,before that i used M1 20w50 MC oil,
both have served me well over the years..
_________________________
"Always"....Mobil 1

Current fill: AFE 0w30

Top
#926791 - 06/24/07 03:53 PM Re: 2007 Honda Rincon TRX680FA ATV oil change [Re: daman]
TimVipond Offline


Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 1115
Loc: Sugar Land, TX
Amsoil also makes a new 10W30 Small Engine oil which is JASO MA/MA2 and is their least expensive oil for this application.
_________________________
To purchase Amsoil products, please contact one of the BITOG Amsoil Site Sponsors: Pablo, or Gary Allan.

Top
#926792 - 06/24/07 06:10 PM Re: 2007 Honda Rincon TRX680FA ATV oil change [Re: sthompson]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46713
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
I'd think after the 2nd OCI of coventional oil, the engine will be ready for synthetic.

Your choice - if this engine runs hot I would lean toward the 40 as well, but an synthetic 30 holds up just fine to some very hot temps. Plus, the Amsoil 10W-30 will help you eke out just a hair more power and has no pesky VI's to get in the way of good lubrication.

Amsoil 0W-40

Amsoil 10W-30

Amsoil 10W-40

Top
#926793 - 06/25/07 02:10 AM Re: 2007 Honda Rincon TRX680FA ATV oil change [Re: Pablo]
sthompson Offline


Registered: 06/19/05
Posts: 40
Loc: Tennessee
Pablo...

By stating "pesky VI's" I assume that you're referring to viscosity index improvers. When it comes to motorcycle or small engine oil, I'm clueless as to what makes it different from auto engine oil. Amsoil recommends the 0w-40 for "all season usage." Do less VI's make the 10w-30 a better oil than the 0w-40 for this atv if we use both on a standard 59 degree day?

st

Top
#926794 - 06/25/07 02:44 AM Re: 2007 Honda Rincon TRX680FA ATV oil change [Re: sthompson]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46713
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Yes - VI is my shorthand.

Quote:

Do less VI's make the 10w-30 a better oil than the 0w-40 for this atv if we use both on a standard 59 degree day?




Yes, no doubt about, in your application at 59°F.

Two exceptions:

1) If it was colder and or your vehicle really needed that 0W-XX flow. Remember the base oil controls that XW number. So be it a 0W-30 or 0W-40, the base oil will be good flowing oil even at ambient. In ATV’s and other small engines, I don’t think this is quite as important as large engine with big distance for the oil to travel and a hefty sump.
2) If you need the higher viscosity of a 40 (although an 0W-40 is bound to be on the light side of the SAE 40 range) –however you have the good fortune of having 10W-30 recommended. If you need a 40 for just blazing hot days and a blazing hot air cooled motor, I would 10W-40 or 15W-40 synthetic, if allowed.

Top
#926795 - 06/25/07 05:11 AM Re: 2007 Honda Rincon TRX680FA ATV oil change [Re: Pablo]
wileyE Offline


Registered: 11/18/04
Posts: 1967
Loc: Kitsap, WA
My comment about running it in on hd30 is partly based on the "pesky VI's". Not because of them possibly shearing down, but because they can contribute to glazing the cylinder during break in. Not that it WILL happen, but might as well eliminate the possibility.

Top
#926796 - 06/25/07 09:30 AM Re: 2007 Honda Rincon TRX680FA ATV oil change [Re: wileyE]
sthompson Offline


Registered: 06/19/05
Posts: 40
Loc: Tennessee
Thanks for all your comments and suggestions, guys. One conclusion I've come to is to run another OCI and 25 hours on the Honda GN-4 10w-30 mineral oil before making a decision to move to synthetic. After hours of research, I also think I know why very few atv owners are moving to 10w-30 oil; there are precious few mineral oils rated JASO MA as wileyE pointed out, and synthetic oils so rated can be counted on one hand with fingers left over...

The Amsoil 10w-30 ASE Small Engine Oil never states application for ATV's or motorcycles like the 10w-40 and 0w-40 do, however I'm supposing it is excellent for use where 10w-30 is recommended for a Honda atv....yes? Someone please give me a warm fuzzy about this.

st

Top
#926797 - 06/25/07 03:50 PM Re: 2007 Honda Rincon TRX680FA ATV oil change [Re: sthompson]
Jaybird Offline


Registered: 07/08/05
Posts: 608
Loc: So. IN
I would never have a warm fuzzy feeling using any engine oil in a wetclutch situation for 20 hrs of run time.
Just the contamination that the clutch pack puts off is in itself a good reason to not run the oil for that long.
And I don' care what the manual says. KTM's manuals have very liberal OCI recommendations for their racing bikes with wetclutch set-ups too (~15 hrs).

I am one of those who feels you can put synthetic oil in right off the bat, and not see any sort of detriment to the break-in. But even if you did worry about that, 20 hrs of run timne is plenty enough time to run the bearings and jug in. Actually, at around 20 hrs, my racing 125cc is due for a complete top end rebuild.

I would suggest not putting too much creadence into the JASO certification, as most of the oils you see are not actually certified as such anyway, they simply claim it.

And the performance aspects of a JASO MAx oil are few. There is very little that says the JASO oils are top quailty oils. In fact, all a JASO oil has to be is SG certifiable and fall within a certain range on three frictional bench tests.

JASO oil may or may not be quality oil. There is nothing in the certification that assures us of it being a quality fluid. I also think many of us would be quite surprized at just how many other oils, that are not marketed to bike engines, could easily pass the meager standards of JASO.

I think you would be far better off worrying about keeping your air filter clean, and your oil changed out on a very frequent basis. Those two concerns will keep your engine alive longer than the concern about what type or grade of oil to use.
You would be fine even if you use a heavier viscosity like 50 wt., it will just cut down on the fuel economy of the engine a bit. Probably not noticible in a rec. engine.

Most folks worry so much about using the absolute best oil the cvan, that they often times let the price point be their guide. And that's fine, but when the price of the fluid starts to effect teh OCI, it is time to buy a cheaper fluid and change it out more often.

Run an expensive fluid to the brink...or change out cheaper fluid very often...which makes more sense to you?
_________________________
Try not...do or do not, there is no try. -Yoda

Top
#926798 - 06/25/07 05:18 PM Re: 2007 Honda Rincon TRX680FA ATV oil change [Re: sthompson]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46713
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Quote:

The Amsoil 10w-30 ASE Small Engine Oil never states application for ATV's or motorcycles like the 10w-40 and 0w-40 do, however I'm supposing it is excellent for use where 10w-30 is recommended for a Honda atv....yes? Someone please give me a warm fuzzy about this.




I say yes it will work great. AND to get full Amsoil corporate backing for this application, I have emailed my main contact. Probably I'll hear back today or tomorrow AM.

Thanks.

Paul

Top
#926799 - 06/25/07 06:22 PM Re: 2007 Honda Rincon TRX680FA ATV oil change [Re: Pablo]
TimVipond Offline


Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 1115
Loc: Sugar Land, TX
AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke® Synthetic Small Engine Oil
is recommended for use wherever SAE 10W-30 or SAE
30 oil is specified in gasoline or diesel engines, transmissions,
hydraulics and chain cases that require the
following:
• API SL, SJ, SH, SG… (Gasoline)
• API CF, CD (Diesel)
• JASO MA/MA2 (Motorcycle Wet Clutch)
Engine manufacturers include - Briggs & Stratton, Kohler,
Honda, Tecumseh, Robin, Kawasaki, Onan, Kubota,
Yanmar, Wisconsin, Power Train, Vanguard and Linamar.
_________________________
To purchase Amsoil products, please contact one of the BITOG Amsoil Site Sponsors: Pablo, or Gary Allan.

Top
#926800 - 06/25/07 06:26 PM Re: 2007 Honda Rincon TRX680FA ATV oil change [Re: TimVipond]
TimVipond Offline


Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 1115
Loc: Sugar Land, TX
Also:
Formula 4-Stroke 10W-30/SAE 30
Synthetic Small Engine Oil
AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke 10W-30/SAE 30
Synthetic Small Engine Oil (ASE) is a robust
formulation designed for the severe service
operation of small engines. It has a -38°F
pour point and qualifies for SAE 10W, making
it an “all season,” multi-grade lubricant with a
wide operating temperature range. As an SAE
30 weight motor oil, it provides outstanding
protection for hot operating engines. Formula
4-Stroke Small Engine Oil is a commercial
grade lubricant that helps improve productivity
and reduce maintenance costs through superior
engine protection. Also perfect for ATVs, scooters and
other applications calling for a SAE 30 or 10W-30 oil.
• Exceeds both 10W-30 and SAE
30 viscosity requirements
• Resists oxidation and
oil vaporization
• Superior protection
for engines and
transmissions
• Wet clutch
compatible
• Long life
formulation
_________________________
To purchase Amsoil products, please contact one of the BITOG Amsoil Site Sponsors: Pablo, or Gary Allan.

Top
#926801 - 06/25/07 08:35 PM Re: 2007 Honda Rincon TRX680FA ATV oil change [Re: TimVipond]
Mike_dup1 Offline


Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 3011
Loc: USA-Michigan
I have a 2006 Rincon. I drove it 5 hrs and changed the engine to Amsoil 10W-40 Motorcycle oil* and the differentials to 75W-90 AGM Marine gear oil.

*Only reason I used the MC oil was I had a lot of it on hand. The 0W-40 is the best IMO.

Fwiw - A lot of Honda owners have discovered that the amount of gear lube that comes in the rear axle is low. Would be a good idea to change this too.
_________________________
2012 Sierra Denali CC 6.2L AWD
2009 Cadillac CTS4
2010 John Deere X728SE
2006 Honda Rincon 680

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >