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#828953 - 02/08/07 07:36 PM Re: Is it less civil on BITOG, or is it just me? [Re: Pablo]
LouDawg Offline


Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 1483
Loc: SW Indiana
Hey, I think everyone is entitled to state their opinion. But the way it's delivered and the way we respond to it is where the conflict comes in.
_________________________
2007 Honda Accord EX-L, 3.0L V6 (PP 5W-20)
2007 Ford Escape XLS, 2.3L I4 (MC 5W-20)

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#828954 - 02/08/07 07:38 PM Re: Is it less civil on BITOG, or is it just me? [Re: LouDawg]
Pbert25 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 113
Loc: San Antonio,TX
Well I guess that ot cpuld be less civil here, but that seems he way it is in other places I visit too.
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2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GT1

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#828955 - 02/08/07 07:39 PM Re: Is it less civil on BITOG, or is it just me? [Re: Pbert25]
Pbert25 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 113
Loc: San Antonio,TX
Darn I hate it when I don't edit at first.
_________________________
2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GT1

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#828956 - 02/08/07 07:42 PM Re: Is it less civil on BITOG, or is it just me? [Re: Pbert25]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46633
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
In reality BiTOG is pretty darn civil.

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#828957 - 02/08/07 07:50 PM Re: Is it less civil on BITOG, or is it just me? [Re: Pablo]
yannis Offline


Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 785
Loc: Greece
I believe we have discussed 90% of the lub. themes and any additional info is either confidential or has to be paid.
Thus we spend our time dog fighting.
I suggest we move on and gather some money for lectures.
_________________________
"Heaven Has No Favorites" by Erich Maria Remarque

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#828958 - 02/08/07 08:16 PM Re: Is it less civil on BITOG, or is it just me? [Re: LouDawg]
Cicero Offline


Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 346
Loc: New Mexico
Quote:

Hey, I think everyone is entitled to state their opinion. But the way it's delivered and the way we respond to it is where the conflict comes in.




Well said.
_________________________
If you cannot answer a man's argument, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names.

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#828959 - 02/08/07 08:25 PM Re: Is it less civil on BITOG, or is it just me? [Re: Cicero]
GMorg Offline


Registered: 01/29/06
Posts: 2326
Loc: Mizzou-land
I am a big fan of civility. However, I am not comfortable when opinion is considered equal to fact nor when belief is considered equal to conclusion. So, when opinions contradict verifiable reality, I think they should be publicly dismantled. Perpetuating myth in the name of civility does a disservice to civilization.

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#828960 - 02/08/07 08:27 PM Re: Is it less civil on BITOG, or is it just me? [Re: GMorg]
moribundman Offline


Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 23591
Is that the smell threadlocker in the air?

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#828961 - 02/08/07 08:53 PM Re: Is it less civil on BITOG, or is it just me? [Re: GMorg]
LouDawg Offline


Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 1483
Loc: SW Indiana
Quote:

I am a big fan of civility. However, I am not comfortable when opinion is considered equal to fact nor when belief is considered equal to conclusion. So, when opinions contradict verifiable reality, I think they should be publicly dismantled. Perpetuating myth in the name of civility does a disservice to civilization.




Agreed. But I wasn't talking about disproving myths or allowing falsehoods to be perpetuated. Merely how we go about it sometimes. My original point wasn't so much about who knows or doesn't know what but how we communicate our positions.

I'm really not *that* sensitive. I was just making an observation.

_________________________
2007 Honda Accord EX-L, 3.0L V6 (PP 5W-20)
2007 Ford Escape XLS, 2.3L I4 (MC 5W-20)

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#828962 - 02/08/07 11:32 PM Re: Is it less civil on BITOG, or is it just me? [Re: farrarfan1]
Rico567 Offline


Registered: 09/08/06
Posts: 173
Loc: IL
I have only been on BITOG a short while, but have found it very informative.

As for the civility issue....read some other forums. BITOG's pretty good. I'm not saying it isn't deplorable, I just don't know the answer.

As far as the long view, the issue of civility calls to mind what were supposedly Evelyn Waugh's last words: "It begins with bad manners; it ends with random shootings in the streets."

I think we've arrived.
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'13 VW Passat TDI, '04 SAAB 9-5 wagon, '02 Dodge Dakota 4x4

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#828963 - 02/08/07 11:38 PM Re: Is it less civil on BITOG, or is it just me? [Re: Pablo]
JohnnyO Offline


Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:

In reality BiTOG is pretty darn civil.



There is a certain sports board that I no longer go to for that reason and the #@$%! didn't even involve me, I just got tired of looking at it. A couple mods broke off and started their own board, which is more tightly moderated. Profanity still abounds but the personal attacks get nipped. BITOG is real mild by comparison.
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Steeler Nation does not have to travel. We're already there.

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#828964 - 02/08/07 11:49 PM Re: Is it less civil on BITOG, or is it just me? [Re: JohnnyO]
Winston Offline


Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1904
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Maybe we should have a test that would allow people into the "Non-Noob" section. It would have questions like;

1. What is better, thick or thin oil.
2. Why is Mobil 1 so noisy?
3. Would you by Castrol Syntec even though they use Grp III.
4. Are automakers specifying 5W20 because of CAFE?
5. What is better SM or SL oil..

Oh, nevermind. There are no simple answers, that is why we are here.

As far as questions being asked over and over again. The amount of posts would drop by 99% if you could not ask a question that had already been asked.

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#828965 - 02/08/07 11:51 PM Re: Is it less civil on BITOG, or is it just me? [Re: Winston]
Winston Offline


Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1904
Loc: Bay Area, CA
It is also really fun to see some of the noobs posts....

"I have been changing the oil in my cars for thirty years, so I know what I am talking about. Pennzoil has wax in it and will gum up your engine. So, DONT USE PENNZOIL!"

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#828966 - 02/09/07 01:06 AM Re: Is it less civil on BITOG, or is it just me? [Re: Axe Man]
farrarfan1 Offline


Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 1491
Loc: Indiana
Quote:

Quote:

When I joined approximately 2.5 years ago it was because I genuinely was interested in the science of lubrication. I naively assumed that the board consisted primarily of people that worked in the field and had actual working knowledge about oil.Sadly that is not the case. Yes there are some genuine experts that are highly trained and some that are self taught that post.




This site has taught me to re-think my views of lubrication in general and I'm grateful for that. I have learned much and I now apply those principles. But this statement bugs me. I don't have a Piled High and Deep after my name, I only have 74 posts, and I'm not (yet) a site supporter. So if I interpret your statement correctly I have nothing to offer in the way of knowledge or experience? I read this site everyday. Yes, I've noticed lately a general decline in civility. IMHO the offenders should be dealt with on an individual basis. But to lump the "non-experts" as a reason for a site decline is just plain unfair.


Quote:

It has become increasingly frustrating to wade through the endless topics about which oil smells best and who makes Super Tech in order to find the ocassional piece of worthwhile information. How many Havoline vs GTX or Pennzoil vs Valvoline topics have to be posted before someone stops asking questions that can't be answered?




I have a better solution. Rather than fussing over repeat questions simply and gently ask the poster to do a search and see if that answers their question. And if it doesn't then you're welcome to post a follow up.


Quote:

We have posters that want to be taken seriously when they ask which oil to run in their BMW but they type like a 12 year old girl sending her boyfriend an instant message.




Agreed, can't stand trying read something that looks like gibberish. But again, not everyone has the same level of writing/reading skills.


Quote:

I believe way too many people overstep their ability by their attempts to "analyze" or "interpret" every UOA and give their recomendations.




Maybe. I have no opinion here.

Quote:

Auto Unions suggestion of a NOOB status is one of the best ideas I've seen here recently.




I think that's a terrible idea. I've seen sites run this way. If you ain't part of the "in crowd" you forever remain a noob.


Quote:

With 16,000 members on a board that has been around for 5 years why would a new member think they could possibly say something that hasn't been said before? My .02 cents worth from a cranky, disgruntled member that has seen the quality of what used to be an outstanding board decline.





I'm sorry Old Man, but this just smacks of snobbery to me. You honestly think that no new members can offer anything new to the site? If you do this site is doomed. A forum grows and prospers by the diversity of it's members. If the "establishment" feels that new members can't offer anything fresh or enlightening then why join up?




A thread about civility and I get called an old man and a snob. Oh well I've been called worse. As to a couple of your points. Yes I think people like you (and I) that don't have half of the alphabet at the end of our names can make valuable contributions IF they are based on our pesonal experiences and lessons learned. Not on something that you (or I) "heard" or "read somewhere".
As to the search function I'm sure you've read questions that are answered like this: "Try the search function,it's your friend". Followed by "I did but didn't have any luck".Followed by someone posting 3 or 4 links they found using the search function that answered the question.The search function on this board is a little cumbersome but it does work. Almost every question asked daily has been asked before. Including the ever popular Brand X vs Brand Y polls. "Why is Mobil 1 noisy"? And the relative newcomer, "Is Mobil 1 all group3"?
I'm sorry if I came off as an elderly snob. I'm only 51.I'm really not a snob but I am cranky and short on tolerance for people that act like they know more than they do.Like new members that can't even spell tribologist but think they are one because they've "lurked" here for a few weeks.I think it is dangerous to be giving advice on something as important as auto maintenance when your only training is what you've picked up on a message board.
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05 Chevy Uplander Valvoline Synpower 5W30
10 Kia Soul factory fill

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#828967 - 02/09/07 01:09 AM Re: Is it less civil on BITOG, or is it just me? [Re: Pablo]
obbop Offline


Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 2832
Loc: MO
Quote:

Sorry. I'll cut back.




No need.... just a little stint in "Noobville" and all will be swell.
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