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#813416 - 01/18/07 06:00 PM Re: Does oil freeze????? [Re: daman]
Volvohead Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 3515
Loc: SE Pa
Absolutely it does. But you have to get to temperatures so low that the only place they're commonly found is in a lab.

As has been said, most everything will turn to a solid below a specific temperature.

Some lubricants will also "dry out" or suffer component evaporation, depending on the atmospheric conditions (or lack thereof). I'm talking extremes here, and not just a dry Arizona day.

Ever wonder what NASA uses to lube moving parts on their interplanetary satellites? It's hundreds of degrees below zero out there (like -400F). I'd suspect dry lubricants and fully self-lubricating components and designs.

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#813417 - 01/18/07 06:03 PM Re: Does oil freeze????? [Re: JAG]
daman Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 10480
Loc: Bad Axe, MI
Quote:

Not in normal winter temps. Freezing would mean you could turn it upside down and it wouldn't flow given any amount of time.




Thank you jag!!!! thats what i'm talking about normal
winter temps..
_________________________
"Always"....Mobil 1

Current fill: AFE 0w30

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#813418 - 01/18/07 06:06 PM Re: Does oil freeze????? [Re: daman]
daman Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 10480
Loc: Bad Axe, MI
i do realize yea every thing will freeze at a certain point,
i juess i should have stated that in my opening post.
_________________________
"Always"....Mobil 1

Current fill: AFE 0w30

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#813419 - 01/18/07 06:14 PM Re: Does oil freeze????? [Re: daman]
lobo11 Offline


Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 702
Loc: Midland, MI
I have some experience with hydraulic lubes and I have done a lot of pour point testing, in my experience in most cases I have seen oil is what I would call frozen 3-4 degrees C below its pour point, and will crystazlize there as well if it has any waxes. By frozen I mean in the testing apparatus the thermometer immersed in the oil is tough to pull out, and when it does it leaves a divot in the oil with oil from the divot stuck to the thermometer. SO if your oil lists a PP of -40 I would say based on my experience it would be what I call frozen at -45 to -42C. One true way to tell would be to run a DSC/DMS from -100 to 25 or so and get the glass transition temperature. But yes it freezes closer to the PP than most realize.

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#813420 - 01/18/07 06:14 PM Re: Does oil freeze????? [Re: daman]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46627
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Quote:

i do realize yea every thing will freeze at a certain point,
i juess i should have stated that in my opening post.




Yes, you should have stated an actual temperature range. Also, "normal winter temps" vary widely throughout the globe.

What is the word "juess"?

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#813421 - 01/18/07 06:22 PM Re: Does oil freeze????? [Re: Pablo]
daman Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 10480
Loc: Bad Axe, MI
Quote:

Quote:

i do realize yea every thing will freeze at a certain point,
i juess i should have stated that in my opening post.




Yes, you should have stated an actual temperature range. Also, "normal winter temps" vary widely throughout the globe.

What is the word "juess"?




You don't know MR. spell check????
_________________________
"Always"....Mobil 1

Current fill: AFE 0w30

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#813422 - 01/18/07 07:51 PM Re: Does oil freeze????? [Re: lobo11]
nascarnation Offline


Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 616
Loc: Indiana
Quote:

I have some experience with hydraulic lubes and I have done a lot of pour point testing, in my experience in most cases I have seen oil is what I would call frozen 3-4 degrees C below its pour point, and will crystazlize there as well if it has any waxes. By frozen I mean in the testing apparatus the thermometer immersed in the oil is tough to pull out, and when it does it leaves a divot in the oil with oil from the divot stuck to the thermometer. SO if your oil lists a PP of -40 I would say based on my experience it would be what I call frozen at -45 to -42C. One true way to tell would be to run a DSC/DMS from -100 to 25 or so and get the glass transition temperature. But yes it freezes closer to the PP than most realize.




you're right on the money here
that's why the Army uses 0W20 instead of the usual 15W40 for their -60F arctic development testing

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#813423 - 01/18/07 08:14 PM Re: Does oil freeze????? [Re: nascarnation]
Curious Kid Offline


Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 1183
Loc: Vermont
Sorry, but "normal", is there really such a thing? How about "average"? Even so...I digress.
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The only constant is change.

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#813424 - 01/18/07 08:25 PM Re: Does oil freeze????? [Re: Curious Kid]
Jett Rink Offline


Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 317
Loc: Bristol, Tennessee
I was watching the history channel a while back, and it was a program about combat on the Russian Front. In the winter of 1941, it got so cold (we're talking 40 below zero, I think), that the Germans could not start the engines in their tanks. Engine frozen up, literally. They had footage of German panzer troops starting small fires on the ground under the tank to thaw out the oil so they could get them started. So yeah, it can freeze in severe winter conditions. I would have been curious to know what kind of oil the Germans were using then. The Russians didn't seem to be suffering this kind of problem. Perhaps the Russians, more used to dealing with lubricating engines in such severe conditons had some different oils?
_________________________
2004 BMW 325i, 66,000 miles. 7 qts. of Mobil 1 0w-40 inside.

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#813425 - 01/18/07 08:25 PM Re: Does oil freeze????? [Re: Curious Kid]
oilyriser Offline


Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 7077
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Paraffin wax has a viscosity of around 5-7 cSt at 100C, and freezes at maybe 60C, so in theory you could formulate a motor oil out of it that would freeze solid after the engine cooled off.

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#813426 - 01/18/07 08:41 PM Re: Does oil freeze????? [Re: Pablo]
Bamaro Offline


Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1079
Loc: Balto.
As defined by Fahrenheit hundreds of years ago, "normal" temperatures run between 0F & 100F. Therefore oil does not freeze at "normal" temperatures.
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1970 Camaro (original owner)
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#813427 - 01/18/07 08:55 PM Re: Does oil freeze????? [Re: Pablo]
bruce381 Offline


Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 3324
Loc: Millbrae, CA
it thickens to thwe point of being more like a havy grease or even like taffy candy.
bruce

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#813428 - 01/18/07 08:58 PM Re: Does oil freeze????? [Re: Jett Rink]
wavinwayne Offline


Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 7519
Loc: North Alabama
Quote:

I was watching the history channel a while back, and it was a program about combat on the Russian Front. In the winter of 1941, it got so cold (we're talking 40 below zero, I think), that the Germans could not start the engines in their tanks. Engine frozen up, literally. They had footage of German panzer troops starting small fires on the ground under the tank to thaw out the oil so they could get them started. So yeah, it can freeze in severe winter conditions. I would have been curious to know what kind of oil the Germans were using then. The Russians didn't seem to be suffering this kind of problem. Perhaps the Russians, more used to dealing with lubricating engines in such severe conditons had some different oils?




I think I saw the same program. IIRC, the Germans began using synthetic oil at some point during the war, since it would flow much better in sub-zero temps. Someone please correct me if I'm all wet on that.
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#813429 - 01/18/07 09:02 PM Re: Does oil freeze????? [Re: Jett Rink]
TallPaul Offline


Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 12915
Loc: By Detroit
Quote:

I was watching the history channel a while back, and it was a program about combat on the Russian Front. In the winter of 1941, it got so cold (we're talking 40 below zero, I think), that the Germans could not start the engines in their tanks. Engine frozen up, literally. They had footage of German panzer troops starting small fires on the ground under the tank to thaw out the oil so they could get them started. So yeah, it can freeze in severe winter conditions. I would have been curious to know what kind of oil the Germans were using then.


I doubt the oil in those tanks was frozen in a technical sense, just pretty thick.

Somewhere I heard that glass is not really frozen, but actually suffers creep, or at least glass in olden days, and that after many years it would be thicker at the bottom than at the top of a window.

I'm glad rocks have a very high freezing temperature. Steel too for that matter.

Often people on this site say they don't want their oil stash to freeze, meaning to experience temperatures at or below the freezing point of water, not that they actually think the oil would freeze.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, for what they are worth--and it's probably not worth much.

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#813430 - 01/18/07 09:24 PM Re: Does oil freeze????? [Re: Pablo]
mechtech2 Offline


Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 19479
Loc: Chicago Area
Most oil is very good now, but some viscosities and brands will get very thick when it's really cold out. It doesn't 'freeze' in the strict sense of the word, but won't perform right as it congeals, and can most certainly cause engine damage.

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