I was just at the dealer today and the service writer tried selling me the nitrogen tire air conversion for $30. I am having issues w/ the gas mileage on my car and the pamphlet advised it improves gas mileage - steady pressure and better tire wear. Are these claims true? Is converting the air to Nitrogen really worth the $30 or just another marketing ploy? Please advise of your thoughts/experiences.
Nitrogen Tire Fill
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I wonder if this is the solution to air pressure differential by cold weather.
All the guys at my office with Acura TL's are complaining about their tire pressure sensors going haywire today. It is -24C here, and the cold weather must be causing a decrease in tire pressure.
Anybody have any knowledge as to whether this problem would be solved by nitrogen?
On the other hand, remembering back to jr. high school science class, isn't air something like 78% nitrogen already?
All the guys at my office with Acura TL's are complaining about their tire pressure sensors going haywire today. It is -24C here, and the cold weather must be causing a decrease in tire pressure.
Anybody have any knowledge as to whether this problem would be solved by nitrogen?
On the other hand, remembering back to jr. high school science class, isn't air something like 78% nitrogen already?
Its not worth the 30 bucks.
some tire shops do it as part of their regular service. i know Costco does. dont really see a huge advantage to using it for regular applications.
They don't sound too knowledgeable. If they're using a compressor or pump that's using atmospheric air, then whatever comes out is what went in.
Possibly the biggest advantage might be that these things produce relatively dry air, and about 95% nitrogen. I've heard of some places where you might be able to fill tires with air that's had its moisture removed. Pressure changes from water vapor don't follow the same curve as air. I'm guessing that there might be a temperature where a large proportion of water vapor turns to liquid, then to ice.
I don't buy that internal oxygen oxidizes the tires either. The liner material should be resistant to oxidation, and outside oxygen is going to penetrate into the rubber anyways.
I doubt nitrogen is that big an advantage, and do you really want to be freaked out that you don't have nitrogen to top off your tires with? I want to be able to top off at a gas station and be done with it. I don't want to worry that I can't find a nitrogen source on the road. I wouldn't mind if someone used nitrogen at no extra cost, but I'm not going out of my way to make sure only nitrogen is used.
Supposedly race cars and aircraft tires are filled with nitrogen. You have commercial jets flying at 7 miles up, so it does get cold. That's sounds like a reasonable use, but one where aircraft are serviced where nitrogen is available.
Hey guys I don't post a whole lot mostly read and learn, but I do have pretty good experience with nitrogen use in tires. I agree with V P W, good stuff for race tires. I used it in my son's go-cart when he was racing and it made a big difference keeping the handling more consistent across a 20 lap race because we saw less pressure change in the tires. Then I did the same thing in my SCCA GT-2 car because in late laps I'd pick up a push from what I determined was excessive increased front tire pressures and I didn't want the pressure any lower at the start of the race. It helped a little. I'd say for street cars it's not needed. Just check your pressures once or month or when there is a big temperature change. For the guys with TPSM equipped cars (I have one) adjust the pressures in the morning before the sun starts affecting any of the tires. If the car is garaged then you may want to add a few extra PSI of air because you can get somewhat of an inflated (no pun intended) reading between a garaged reading and an outdoor reading in the winter.
The only way Nitrogen can possibly aid in obtaining better fuel economy is if you're terrible about checking your tire pressures in the first place. IMO the selling points some of these places have for Nitrogen is only promoting more neglect of regular vehicle maintenance. It's basically telling people you don't have to check your pressures so often (or at all!)
It is less susceptible to change in pressures due to temperature. Nitrogen systems also do remove the moisture from the air. It does have its benefits, but I wouldn't pay for it. I'd much rather see everyone check their pressures regularly and top it off with whatever air they want (if you prefer nitrogen, fine, if you want cheap/free normal air, fine! Just keep checking your pressures!)
For the record, I work at a tire shop that has been a big seller/promoter of Nitrogen. For anyone that buys new tires from us they automatically are inflated with nitrogen. The tire machines are hooked directly into the nitrogen system (for the tire inflater anyway.... the pneumatic mechanisms of the tire changer itself are still on normal compressed air).
Saying that nitrogen is going to save you money on fuel is a stretch. That statement might ring true if you're bad at keeping up with what should be routine tire care anyway. But many people take that the wrong way. Nitrogen is not some magic potion that will get you better fuel economy... air is air. Just check your pressures regularly and go on your merry way.
It is beneficial but the selling points are exaggerated. Simple as that.
It is less susceptible to change in pressures due to temperature. Nitrogen systems also do remove the moisture from the air. It does have its benefits, but I wouldn't pay for it. I'd much rather see everyone check their pressures regularly and top it off with whatever air they want (if you prefer nitrogen, fine, if you want cheap/free normal air, fine! Just keep checking your pressures!)
For the record, I work at a tire shop that has been a big seller/promoter of Nitrogen. For anyone that buys new tires from us they automatically are inflated with nitrogen. The tire machines are hooked directly into the nitrogen system (for the tire inflater anyway.... the pneumatic mechanisms of the tire changer itself are still on normal compressed air).
Saying that nitrogen is going to save you money on fuel is a stretch. That statement might ring true if you're bad at keeping up with what should be routine tire care anyway. But many people take that the wrong way. Nitrogen is not some magic potion that will get you better fuel economy... air is air. Just check your pressures regularly and go on your merry way.
It is beneficial but the selling points are exaggerated. Simple as that.
I check my pressure once a month and thought about using nitrogen but ill stick to what im doing.
My 2 cents. I believe nitrogen has its' pros and cons. Water vapor in compressed air acts as a catalyst accelerating rust and corrosion (prevent wheel rim corrosion/rust and valve problems). Water vapor holds heat and when it changes from liquid to vapor, water expands alot in volume (consistent tire pressure, cooler running tires, and slows down tire wear). Since modecules of nitrogen are abit larger than O2, it will "leak" out more slowly through the rubber then O2. The only bad thing I see about nitrogen use is the non avaiability of it. It is unbelievable to see how many vehicles have "racing slicks", 10 PSI, 45-50 PSI overinflated, no or little brake pads, aligment problems, etc. which operate daily on the road and at highway speeds with us....(shudder!). I believe tire companies state more than 80% of vehicles run with under inflated tires, the use of nitrogen might be one small solution, but if you come right down to it....owner's failure to maintain their vehicle. Again just my opinion!
Unless your wheel is fitted with two valve stems to allow all the atmospheric air to be purged, the tire will not contain pure nitrogen. I think the benefits are real, but for most people it won't be noticeable.
Sure, the inside of the tire and wheel won't see oxidation, corrosion, moisture, etc., but what about the outside that is exposed to the elements?
If it were free, I'd take it, but I surely would not pay for it.
Sure, the inside of the tire and wheel won't see oxidation, corrosion, moisture, etc., but what about the outside that is exposed to the elements?
If it were free, I'd take it, but I surely would not pay for it.
It is all #@$%!.
Ment to do no more then deprive you of $20 or $30 that would be better spent on gas, an air filter, new spark plugs and so on.
Better gas milage: Lie.
Softer ride: Lie.
Never need to check pressure: Dangerous lie that is going to get some one killed.
Tires run cooler: Lie.
Less rim corrosion: possible?
Pressure does not change with temp: Not only is that a lie it contradicts the laws of science.
Don't belive me, Try to find these benifits of nitrogen listed on any tire manufactures web site.
As far as I can tell tire manufacutes won't comment on the nitrogen thing because it a law sute waiting to happen.
Here are the lies on another message board:
http://www.virginiabeachgasprices.com/Forum_MSG.aspx?category=1054&topic=217541&page_no=1
Here are the facts as best as I can test them:
So far I have tested N2 vs. air for gas milage. No change.
Ride quality. No change
Pressure changes with temp. I am testing that right now.
http://www.virginiabeachgasprices.com/Forum_MSG.aspx?category=1054&topic=219792&page_no=1
Ment to do no more then deprive you of $20 or $30 that would be better spent on gas, an air filter, new spark plugs and so on.
Better gas milage: Lie.
Softer ride: Lie.
Never need to check pressure: Dangerous lie that is going to get some one killed.
Tires run cooler: Lie.
Less rim corrosion: possible?
Pressure does not change with temp: Not only is that a lie it contradicts the laws of science.
Don't belive me, Try to find these benifits of nitrogen listed on any tire manufactures web site.
As far as I can tell tire manufacutes won't comment on the nitrogen thing because it a law sute waiting to happen.
Here are the lies on another message board:
http://www.virginiabeachgasprices.com/Forum_MSG.aspx?category=1054&topic=217541&page_no=1
Here are the facts as best as I can test them:
So far I have tested N2 vs. air for gas milage. No change.
Ride quality. No change
Pressure changes with temp. I am testing that right now.
http://www.virginiabeachgasprices.com/Forum_MSG.aspx?category=1054&topic=219792&page_no=1
That depends what kind of N2 you use.
Our N2 is 100% synthetic formulated with high perfomance gas including Group IV N2.
Our N2 is 100% synthetic formulated with high perfomance gas including Group IV N2.
Ha Ha Ha, 100% synthetic Gr IV nitrogen, can you call Gr III nitrogen synthetic also?
Sorry, couldn't help myself, over and out...
Sorry, couldn't help myself, over and out...
Yeah 100% nitrogen(Yeah there is some residual air) is better it has been found to less prone to leakage(Yes that left over 22% makes a difference and will leak through the rubber itself). Will the average shop fill your tires for you once in while for free? YUP!!! Remember that if your tire get low they leak more and make things increasingly worse.
Is it worth paying for--- NO (OK races cars or you won the lottery and just got to try it sure).
As for ride quality that is determined by tire construction and pressure applied to the belts to maintain shape for support. Air/Nitrogen pressure in the tires does not hold the car up only lends support to the belts to lift the rims up off the ground from the TOP. Yes the rim is suspended not supported.
Air compressors will not have the same content as atmospheric air as some Hydrogen and Oxygen is lost due to condensation when cooled after compression. The is the moisture tat has to removed. If done properly then you have a DRYER air in the lines. But the vast majority is In=out.
If they provide it as part of the service of new tires and the price is the same as the competition (or they just provide better service so you are willing to pay more) then fine.
But to change out tire air my Tush!!!
Is it worth paying for--- NO (OK races cars or you won the lottery and just got to try it sure).
As for ride quality that is determined by tire construction and pressure applied to the belts to maintain shape for support. Air/Nitrogen pressure in the tires does not hold the car up only lends support to the belts to lift the rims up off the ground from the TOP. Yes the rim is suspended not supported.
Air compressors will not have the same content as atmospheric air as some Hydrogen and Oxygen is lost due to condensation when cooled after compression. The is the moisture tat has to removed. If done properly then you have a DRYER air in the lines. But the vast majority is In=out.
If they provide it as part of the service of new tires and the price is the same as the competition (or they just provide better service so you are willing to pay more) then fine.
But to change out tire air my Tush!!!
If o2 leaks out of my tires, and I top off with air every month, won't I have an even higher percentage of nitrogen in my tires after some time? without paying for a Nitrogen flush?
Marketing at work!!!!!
Invest your money in an accurate calibrated tire guage and a tire pump. Then, check your tire pressure every week or 2. That will do more for your MPG, tire life, ride quality.....then any advertised 'gas'.
Marketing at work!!!!!
Invest your money in an accurate calibrated tire guage and a tire pump. Then, check your tire pressure every week or 2. That will do more for your MPG, tire life, ride quality.....then any advertised 'gas'.
If you gotta have it, Costco will give you a nitrogen fill free, regardless of where you bought the tires.
H2? Any luck with that?
I would suggest Helium rather than Hydrogen, its got to be safer and the decrease in weight should end global warming.
Isn't odd that I insist on Group IV oil in my engines and then go ahead and use Group I N2 (dino?) in my tires.
Don
Isn't odd that I insist on Group IV oil in my engines and then go ahead and use Group I N2 (dino?) in my tires.
Don
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