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#782490 - 12/05/06 07:18 AM Rotella not good for Powerstroke 6.0 ??
SMILEY Offline


Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 130
Loc: Santa Maria, CA
I have seen several threads about this so I asked my friend about it (Ford Diesel mechanic). He said that Rotella does not have enough cleaning agents for the injectors. He and I know that Rotella is speced for the Ford PS 6.0 but what about the effects to the injectors which are not part of the API spec?
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#782491 - 12/05/06 07:28 AM Re: Rotella not good for Powerstroke 6.0 ?? [Re: SMILEY]
1040 WreckerMan Offline


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 785
Loc: Western Washington
The injectors don't need cleaning agents, at least not for the high pressure oil side. As long as the oil is changed at a reasonable interval and an excessive amount of soot is not allowed to build up then the oil will perform fine. The oil DOES need a lot of anti foam agents because the PowerStroke (and any HEUI engine) shears the oil badly. The PowerStrokes use a swash plate pump that pump unfiltered engine oil to pressures as high as 3500 PSI (more in some cases). I think there are better oils for the money of regular dino Rotella, however it will provide satisfactory performance and there are many 1/4 million mile PS engines that have used Rotella.

I'm not sure if you are aware of the fact, however the 6.0 is not a Ford engine as it is producted by Navistar. It is actually a VT365 engine commonly found on International trucks and equipment. There are several International dealers I have dealt with that use nothing but bulk Rotella and have no problems with the current spec Rotella.

Your friend may be referring to the very early 7.3 (or T444E) PowerStroke. This was the first medium duty electronic HEUI engine released in the industry. Many oils, Rotella most notably, did not have enough anti-foam additives which caused run ability and power problems. International parts used to sell, and they may still, an additive to help those early oil's anti-foam additives.
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#782492 - 12/05/06 07:57 AM Re: Rotella not good for Powerstroke 6.0 ?? [Re: 1040 WreckerMan]
SMILEY Offline


Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 130
Loc: Santa Maria, CA
Thanks for the info. I am aware that the IH VT365 was made for ford.

They diesel mechanic made specific regard to the VT365 (Ford's PSD). I have read that the Ford version uses a different HPOP/injector system than the VT365 used by IH which may be causing the issue. Not sure though; need clarification.
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#782493 - 12/06/06 07:34 AM Re: Rotella not good for Powerstroke 6.0 ?? [Re: SMILEY]
1040 WreckerMan Offline


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 785
Loc: Western Washington
No they use the same HPOP and injectors. There can be injector differences depending on HP between a PS and VT. I buy all my 6.0 PSD parts from the International truck dealer for the 6.0 trucks at work. I've done two HPOP and about 33 sets of injectors and they all can from International. The mechanic may have been confused or had a bad experience or was working on a truck that had some other issues that was blamed on the oil?

All I can say is I have never experience a problem running modern formulated Rotella in either 7.3/T444E or 6.0/VT365 engines. I called and talked to the guy I deal with quite a bit at the International dealer and he also hasn't had any problems with the bulk Rotella they run.

I'm not saying a problem doesn't exist, but it sure doesn't seem likely.
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#782494 - 12/07/06 07:47 AM Re: Rotella not good for Powerstroke 6.0 ?? [Re: 1040 WreckerMan]
SMILEY Offline


Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 130
Loc: Santa Maria, CA
Quote:

No they use the same HPOP and injectors. There can be injector differences depending on HP between a PS and VT. I buy all my 6.0 PSD parts from the International truck dealer for the 6.0 trucks at work. I've done two HPOP and about 33 sets of injectors and they all can from International. The mechanic may have been confused or had a bad experience or was working on a truck that had some other issues that was blamed on the oil?

All I can say is I have never experience a problem running modern formulated Rotella in either 7.3/T444E or 6.0/VT365 engines. I called and talked to the guy I deal with quite a bit at the International dealer and he also hasn't had any problems with the bulk Rotella they run.

I'm not saying a problem doesn't exist, but it sure doesn't seem likely.




Thanks Bro. Thats the kind of info I was looking for. I dont see why Ford would have an issue and IH not.
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#782495 - 12/10/06 04:31 AM Re: Rotella not good for Powerstroke 6.0 ?? [Re: SMILEY]
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 39806
Loc: Pottstown, PA
Quote:

I dont see why Ford would have an issue and IH not.




Consumer use vs. fleet/commercial use. All it takes is a few % of yahoos in hundreds of thousands of sales to make it a "problem".
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#782496 - 01/20/07 01:25 AM Re: Rotella not good for Powerstroke 6.0 ?? [Re: Gary Allan]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 27117
Loc: a prison island
Gary,
that's a very valid point that I'd not grasped to date.

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#782497 - 01/20/07 08:18 AM Re: Rotella not good for Powerstroke 6.0 ?? [Re: Shannow]
ewetho Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 1304
Loc: Kankakee, IL
With the way they drop injectors in at my shop even people running MC are not safe so I don't think that is the issue.
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#782498 - 02/05/07 03:45 AM Re: Rotella not good for Powerstroke 6.0 ?? [Re: ewetho]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4177
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Not sure how cold it gets in Santa Maria, but I would personally stick with the 10W30 Rotella below about 30 deg. F or so-my '04 nails big time w/ 15W40 (unless plugged in of course), this morning at 0 deg. F it wouldn't even run unless fed throttle manually at first.
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#782499 - 02/05/07 05:33 AM Re: Rotella not good for Powerstroke 6.0 ?? [Re: bullwinkle]
Mokanic Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 1563
Loc: North Carolina, USA
It is my understanding that some oils including Rotella were experiencing oil foaming in the injectors thereby causeing a roughidle at times. My understanding is that this did not take place with every application but some 6.0 owners would see a significantly smoother idle when they switched to an oil with high anti-foaming agents.
Has anyone else heard of this ?

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#782500 - 02/05/07 07:02 AM Re: Rotella not good for Powerstroke 6.0 ?? [Re: Mokanic]
1040 WreckerMan Offline


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 785
Loc: Western Washington
bullwinkle, you may have other problems besides oil viscosity. We only run 15w40 at work and have recently seen temps in single digits in town, below 0 in the foot hills. I had one service truck at home with a 6.0 (an F550) and it started fine at 8*F without being plugged in. They need a few minuets before you start pouring the cools to them though. We didn't have any real problems with any of our 6.0 or VT's. I'd have to look at the list again, but I think total we have about 28 6.0 PSD or VT365's right now.

Mokanic, this was more of a problem with the 7.3L/T444E engines that were introduced in 1994. These were the first HEUI engines that were sold to the public at a consumer level and they were one of the first HEUI engines period. There were many problems caused by foaming oil with any number of different oil brands. Rotella was particularly bad at first. IH sold an anti-foam agent to add to your favorite flavor of oil to help this problem. I haven't herd of any particularly acute problem with this anymore. HEUI engines have been around 10+ years and oil producers know they beat up on the oil. HEUI engines can still foam oil plenty bad, but it's usually a result of several circumstances that lead up to it. Such as the sump being 2-6 quarts low and the engine run hard cold will make the oil foam.
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#782501 - 02/06/07 09:37 PM Re: Rotella not good for Powerstroke 6.0 ?? [Re: 1040 WreckerMan]
02350024vctd Offline


Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 20
Loc: Nashville TN
what about when using lucas with rotella, my work partner has an 05 6.0 psd, and runs rotella mixed with lucas. he hasnt had any problems that i know of other than EGR problems but i might suggest that he change if problems could arrise, is it possible that the lucas could have anti foam capabilities that woud override the foaming of rotella (15W40)

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#782502 - 02/07/07 03:27 AM Re: Rotella not good for Powerstroke 6.0 ?? [Re: 02350024vctd]
BigBadf350 Offline


Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 75
Loc: North Carolina
oil additives are big NO, NO with the 6.0 or so the techs claim.



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#782503 - 02/07/07 07:51 AM Re: Rotella not good for Powerstroke 6.0 ?? [Re: BigBadf350]
1040 WreckerMan Offline


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 785
Loc: Western Washington
I wouldn't run any additives in the modern diesel engine oils. They are quite good on their own merit. I also am not a big fan of Lucas additives, however that is my personal opinion. If anything, the powerservice product would be a good choice, I just don't see the need with a good oil.

02350024vctd, as I said above, the new engine oils have plenty of anti-foam additives in most cases. I don't think many people will have a problem running Rotella without extra additives. We add nothing to the oil at work and have not had any foaming issues with ANY of the HEUI engines in many years.
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#782504 - 02/07/07 11:21 PM Re: Rotella not good for Powerstroke 6.0 ?? [Re: 1040 WreckerMan]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4177
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Quote:

bullwinkle, you may have other problems besides oil viscosity. We only run 15w40 at work and have recently seen temps in single digits in town, below 0 in the foot hills. I had one service truck at home with a 6.0 (an F550) and it started fine at 8*F without being plugged in. They need a few minuets before you start pouring the cools to them though. We didn't have any real problems with any of our 6.0 or VT's. I'd have to look at the list again, but I think total we have about 28 6.0 PSD or VT365's right now.

Mokanic, this was more of a problem with the 7.3L/T444E engines that were introduced in 1994. These were the first HEUI engines that were sold to the public at a consumer level and they were one of the first HEUI engines period. There were many problems caused by foaming oil with any number of different oil brands. Rotella was particularly bad at first. IH sold an anti-foam agent to add to your favorite flavor of oil to help this problem. I haven't herd of any particularly acute problem with this anymore. HEUI engines have been around 10+ years and oil producers know they beat up on the oil. HEUI engines can still foam oil plenty bad, but it's usually a result of several circumstances that lead up to it. Such as the sump being 2-6 quarts low and the engine run hard cold will make the oil foam.


No, actually my company has 12 6.0 vans, all '04s and '05s, and Ford actually doesn't recommend 15W40 below freezing (it's in the owner's manual)-starting isn't a big problem with 2 good batteries, but the engines lope and nail badly when first started cold, 10W30 Rotella is rare here, I'm probably going to try Rotella 5W40 full syn next time around, I can't imagine having 28 6.0s-the ones we have are bad enough already! AFAIK, all of our vans lope and chug with excessive smoke when started in very cold temps w/15W40 and not plugged in-something with the HEUI injectors must be susceptible to excessively high oil pressure and/or viscosity. I've been using Rotella exclusively for 96K on my '04, company doesn't pay for oil tests, but other than cold starts the oil's been fine (wish I could say that about the rest of the engine...)
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