Looking for GM intake gasket info-model specifics

[g20ooh]

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Notice the earliest mention of the 3.1 OR the 3.4 is 1996 and only in regards to the RWD Olds, Pontiac, and Chevrolet Minivans. If I remember correctly, they had the 3.4 and not the 3.1. Either way, no chance yours is one of them.

Consider the old saying always worth remembering; if it ain't broke don't fix it. Think about, you have an 11 year old car with 71,000 rounds on it and since you havn't mentioned any symptoms related to this area something was working right to get you this far. You want to go throw some stop leak in there just keep in mind you are as likely to create a problem as you are to prevent a nonproblem (no misprint ). Just my

on that last. Others may feel differently

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Are you saying that the 3.1 didn't have any problems until 1996? If so, that's wrong. I have replaced the gaskets on my 1994 Grand Am twice.

As to your 2nd notion, I would disagree as well. It's called trying to prevent the unevitable, if it is a pretty sure thing that it will happen to your vehicle.

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Well , I think I said exactly what I said - no antagonism intended

. Jeepster gave a great link for all of us - one of the best out there on this subject . Part of why it is so good are all the links when you go to the CTV story page . The one most germane to this discussion is the redacted GM TSBs which is the supporting material to the TV story and will , I think its safe to assume , play a significant role in any future legal dealings on this matter . The original topic here is " Looking for GM intake gasket info-model specifics " and I believe it is significant that the law firm handling a case with a potential value of in their words of " 1.2 Billion $ " ( Canadian ) has posted via the CTV story the answer to that question . I'm not sure where you disagree with the above and my commentary in regards to it . I do believe that your particular engine is not one of the ones in question in regards to this specific issue - nowhere is a 1994 of any kind mentioned . If you think it should I'm more than willing to listen - I do have friends who might benefit from a broader definition . I say might - nobody has a problem at this time .

 

[caprice_2nv]

Since when are GM's old dustbuster van's RWD?
Anyone know if the TBI 3.1 in a 94 Lumina APV van could have the problem? My gf's mom's van has 350K miles on it and I don't think it's been done yet.

 

[Jeepster_nut]

350k miles and no leak?Wow! I think if it hasnt leaked yet, then it isnt going to. Plus, that year van isn't on the list in the link.

That link seems to have stopped working by the way...

 

[daman]

Quote:

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Anyone know if the TBI 3.1 in a 94 Lumina APV van could have the problem? My gf's mom's van has 350K miles on it and I don't think it's been done yet.

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No....different set up(intake).

 

[crw]

I'd like to see a spreadsheet with each year listed on one side and each engine in question along the other axis, and the data being a technical measurement of the observed failure rate. (A tall order, I'm sure.) That is, a technical description and not a legal one. (There really is a difference.) Anyway...

My other beef on this subject is, why would any repair need to be done more than once? What are you using? Cardboard? cork? It is hard to believe that this could go on for so long.

GM (and Ford): Beancounting your way into bankruptcy.........

 

[g20ooh]

Quote:

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350k miles and no leak?Wow! I think if it hasnt leaked yet, then it isnt going to. Plus, that year van isn't on the list in the link.

That link seems to have stopped working by the way...

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Jeepster/ ( Or Anybody Else ) ,
Any way you can get the link-link stuff up here or a link working ?

 

[g20ooh]

Quote:

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Quote:

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Anyone know if the TBI 3.1 in a 94 Lumina APV van could have the problem? My gf's mom's van has 350K miles on it and I don't think it's been done yet.

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No....different set up(intake).

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Hello Damen ,

I have put together my own list of LG8 3.1 equiped autos as described in the above articule . So far it is pretty dang small .

3.1L V6 vin letter J (Eighth position out of seventeen )
RPO code LG8 .
Contained in sample TSB #2 .

1999 - 2002
Pontiac Grand Prix
Buick Century
Chevrolet Malibu

There is undetermined number of 2003 production of these three as well . Unfortunately the redacted copy of the TSBs leaves out the VIN cuts .
Given the date of the 3.1/3.4 TSB ( 10/24/03 ) a WAG would be some to few . Or put another way somewhere between say three weeks to on the outside seven months of production .

One thing my searching around today showed me , there are alot reasons to consider almost all 3.1L production as fundamentally sound with several versons in many years capable of going the long haul with minimal upkeep , little to no repair , and with very satisfied long term owners .

If anybody sees something that should be added or taken away by all means have had it .

 

[g20ooh]

Quote:

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I'd like to see a spreadsheet with each year listed on one side and each engine in question along the other axis, and the data being a technical measurement of the observed failure rate. (A tall order, I'm sure.) That is, a technical description and not a legal one. (There really is a difference.) Anyway...

My other beef on this subject is, why would any repair need to be done more than once? What are you using? Cardboard? cork? It is hard to believe that this could go on for so long.

GM (and Ford): Beancounting your way into bankruptcy.........

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Yeah , I'm real old school about that - proper repair fundamentally involves not confusing symptoms for problems and recognition of " be good , or be good at it " if you aren't going by book .

. Still , we really don't know the whole story , perhaps Benj. will say more .

As to that data thing , well , something like that would be a great idea just - isn't going to happen . Personally , I think something like with all the data from all the OEMS would be reeaal interesting if out in public . Of course I'd want a little heads up so I could make book on TOYOTA .

 

[BradC]

I know with the 2001 and 2003 Malibus I had, the 3.1L motors in them were doubly screwed.

My 2001 had piston slap so bad it needed a new motor which was changed out before the intake had a chance to fail (42,000 kms).

My 2003 had the intake fail at under 40,000 kms and was also a slapper, but not as bad as the 2001.

 

[Jeepster_nut]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060330/whistleblower_gm_060406/20060406/

This link should work.

 

[Al]

Quote:

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Are you saying that the 3.1 didn't have any problems until 1996? If so, that's wrong. I have replaced the gaskets on my 1994 Grand Am twice.

As to your 2nd notion, I would disagree as well. It's called trying to prevent the unevitable, if it is a pretty sure thing that it will happen to your vehicle.

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I agree this information is bogus. I base that on direct experience and discussions with dealers as well as personally seeing (with my own eyes) leaking intake manifolds. If you have a GM 3.1/3.4 from the years of 1991 t0 2002 you are at risk-period.

 

[NJC]

Quote:

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If you have a GM 3.1/3.4 from the years of 1991 t0 2002 you are at risk-period.

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Maybe there's more to GM's intake gasket problem than meets the eye ... but surely by 1995 it was established the gasket was failing. Does it really take another 7yrs to fix??

 

[g20ooh]

Sample of General Motors service bulletins
Updated Thu. Apr. 6 2006 8:28 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

FIRST SAMPLE BULLETIN

File In Section: 06 - Engine/Propulsion System

Bulletin No.: 01-06-01-007A

Date: July, 2001

TECHNICAL

Subject:

Engine Coolant Consumption or Coolant Leak

(Inspect For Material Degradation/Replace Intake Manifolds)

Models:

1995-1997 Buick Riviera
1995-1998 Buick LeSabre, Park Avenue
1996-1998 Buick Regal
1998 Chevrolet Lumina, Monte Carlo
1995-1996 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight
1995-1998 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight
1998 Oldsmobile Intrigue
1995-1998 Pontiac Bonneville
1997-1998 Pontiac Grand Prix
with 3.8L Engine (VIN K - RPO L36)

This bulletin is being revised to correct parts and labor operation usage. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 01-06-01-007 (Section 6 - Engine/Propulsion System).

Condition

Some owners may comment on excessive engine coolant consumption, or an engine coolant leak near or under the throttle body area of the upper intake manifold.

Cause

Upper intake manifold composite material may degrade around the EGR stove pipe and could result in an internal or external coolant leak.

Correction

1. Follow the upper intake manifold removal instructions found in the Engine Unit Repair Section of the Service Information Manual.


2. Refer to the arrow in the illustration of the upper intake manifold above. Inspect the inner diameter of the EGR passage for signs of material degradation. Degradation will appear as "pitting" of the composite material in the EGR port passage.


3. If degradation of upper intake manifold composite material is found, replace the lower and upper intake manifolds with the following part numbers:

^Lower Intake - 24508923


^Upper Intake - 17113136 (includes necessary upper intake plenum gaskets)

^Lower Intake Gasket - 12537197



4. Follow the lower and upper intake manifold installation instructions found in the Engine Unit Repair Section of the appropriate Service Manual.


5. If degradation is not apparent, skip to Step 7.


6. Verify the repair.


7. If no degradation is found, evaluate the vehicle for other causes of excessive coolant consumption as noted in the Engine Diagnosis Section of the appropriate Service Manual.

Parts Information

Parts are currently available from GMSPO.

SECOND SAMPLE BULLETIN

Engine Oil or Coolant Leak (Install New Intake
Manifold Gasket) # 03-06-01-010B - (10/24/2003)


Engine Oil or Coolant Leak (Install New Intake Manifold Gasket)

2000-2003 Buick Century

2002-2003 Buick Rendezvous

1996 Chevrolet Lumina APV

1997-2003 Chevrolet Venture

1999-2001 Chevrolet Lumina

1999-2003 Chevrolet Malibu, Monte Carlo

2000-2003 Chevrolet Impala

1996-2003 Oldsmobile Silhouette

1999 Oldsmobile Cutlass

1999-2003 Oldsmobile Alero

1996-1999 Pontiac Trans Sport

1999-2003 Pontiac Grand Am, Montana

2000-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix

2001-2003 Pontiac Aztek

with 3.1L or 3.4L V-6 Engine (VINs J, E - RPOs LG8, LA1)

This bulletin is being revised to change the model Information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 03-06-01-O10A (Section 06 - Engine).


Condition

Some owners may comment on an apparent oil or coolant leak. Additionally, the comments may range from spots on the driveway to having to add fluids.

Cause

Intake manifold may be leaking allowing coolant, oil or both to leak from the engine.

Correction

Install a new design intake manifold gasket. The material used in the gasket has been changed in order to improve the sealing qualities of the gasket. When replacing the gasket, the intake manifold bolts must also be replaced and torqued to a revised specification. The new bolts will come with a pre-applied threadlocker on them.

Notice

An oil leak may result if the vertical bolts are not tightened before the diagonal bolts.


Diagonal bolts may require a crows foot to tighten.

Tighten

1. Tighten the vertical lower intake manifold bolts (1) to 7 N.m (62 lb in).

2. Tighten the diagonal lower intake manifold bolts (2) to 7 N.m (62 lb in).

3. Tighten the vertical lower intake manifold bolts (1) to 13 N.m (115 lb in).

4. Tighten the diagonal lower intake manifold bolts (2) to 25 N.m (18 lb ft).

Parts Information

Parts are currently available from GMSPO.

THIRD SAMPLE BULLETIN

File In Section: 06 - Engine/Propulsion System

Bulletin No.: 03-06-01-016

Date: May, 2003

TECHNICAL

Subject:
Loss of Coolant, Milky Colored Oil
(Replace Intermediate Intake Gasket)


Models:

2000-2003 Buick LeSabre, Park Avenue, Regal
2000-2003 Chevrolet Impala, Monte Carlo
2000-2003 Pontiac Bonneville
2000-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix
with 3.8L V6 Engine (VIN K - RPO L36)

Built Prior to the VIN Breakpoints shown.

Condition

Some owners may comment on a loss of coolant, coolant odor, having to add coolant or a milky substance on either the oil dipstick or oil fill cap. Additionally, owners may indicate that there are signs of coolant loss left on the ground where the vehicle is normally parked.

Cause

Condition may be due to coolant leaking past intermediate intake or throttle body gaskets.

Correction

Important: The upper intake manifold should not be replaced for a coolant leak condition, unless a rare instance of physical damage is found. Even if the throttle body surface shows a slight warpage, the upper intake should not be replaced unless a drivability concern is noted or a relevant engine DTC, such as a code for an unmetered air leak, is set and the upper intake manifold can clearly be shown as the cause of the concern.


Thoroughly check for any external leaks. If no external leaks are found, then replace the intermediate intake manifold gasket and the throttle body gasket. When changing the throttle body gasket, the nuts that retain the throttle body should be replaced with a new design that improves torque retention. Medium strength thread locker should be applied to the studs before installing the new nuts.

Parts Information

Parts are currently available from GMSPO.

FOURTH SAMPLE BULLETIN

Bulletin No.: 04-06-01-017

Date: May 26, 2004

INFORMATION

Subject:
New Upper Intake Manifold and Gasket Kits


Models:
1995-1997 Buick Riviera
1995-2004 Buick Park Avenue
1996-2004 Buick Regal
1997-2004 Buick LeSabre
1998-1999 Chevrolet Lumina
1998-2004 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
2000-2004 Chevrolet Impala
1995-1996 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight
1995-1999 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight
1998-1999 Oldsmobile Intrigue
1995-2004 Pontiac Bonneville
1997-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix
with 3.8L V6 Engine (VIN K - RPO L36)


New upper intake manifold and gasket kits have been released. These new kits will provide the dealer with the ability to get exactly what is necessary for a correct repair. In addition some of the gaskets have been updated to a more robust design. Please reference the part numbers when ordering from GMSPO.

 

[g20ooh]

LA1 (RPO ) [ 3.4L ]
The LA1 3400 was a bored-out version of the LG8. It retained the OHV layout of the previous engine, and was first utilized on the 1996 U platform minivans and appeared in a car for the first time in the 1999 Pontiac Grand Am and Oldsmobile Alero. A 92 mm bore brought the displacement to 3.4 L (3350 cc). Like the LG8, the LA1 featured numerous common parts with the similar GM High Value engine family. Power was up to 170 hp-185 hp (127 kW to 138 kW) and torque was 210 ft·lb.

It is used in the following:

1996 Chevrolet Lumina APV/Pontiac Trans Sport/Oldsmobile Silhouette
1997-2004 Chevrolet Venture/Pontiac Montana/Oldsmobile Silhouette
1999-2004 Oldsmobile Alero GL/GLS
1999-2005 Pontiac Grand Am SE/GT
2002-2005 Pontiac Aztek/Buick Rendezvous
2000-2005 Chevrolet Impala
2000-2005 Chevrolet Monte Carlo

 

[g20ooh]

(RPO ) LG8 [ 3.1L ]
The LG8 was a modern version of the 3.1 L engine, produced since model year 2000[citation needed]. It still had an iron block and 2-valve pushrod aluminum heads but now had full sequential port fuel injection. The LG8 also featured a new intake manifold and numerous changes to improve parts sharing with the offshoot GM High Value engine family. Emissions were improved with air injection for LEV status. Power was 170 hp-175 hp (127 kW to 131 kW) and torque was 190 ft·lbf–195 ft·lbf (258 N·m to 264 N·m). The LG8 was built in Ramos Arizpe, Mexico and Tonawanda, New York.

Applications:

1999-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix
1999-2005 Buick Century
1999-2003 Chevrolet Malibu

 

[g20ooh]

( RPO ) LH0 [ 3.1L - PREVIOUS/Multi-port fuel injection ]
The LH0 was next in 1988 with more exotic and expensive (for the time) multi-port fuel injection. While not known for its high RPM power, the LH0 has strong low- and mid-range torque. That, combined with its reliability, gave the 3.1 L engine an excellent reputation. It was produced until 1996 and was exported in some models.

 

[g20ooh]

The Buick V6 engine family, sometimes called the Fireball, is a large V6 engine used by General Motors. The block is made of cast iron and all use two-valve-per-cylinder iron heads, actuated by pushrods.

The 3800 was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines of the 20th Century list, and is one of the most-produced engines in history. To date, over 25 million have been produced.

The most-surprising aspect of this engine is GM's 1967 decision to sell the design to Kaiser-Jeep. The muscle car era had taken hold, and GM no longer felt the need to produce a V6. The energy crisis a decade later prompted the company to buy the design back from American Motors (AMC), who had by that point bought Kaiser-Jeep, and the descendents of the early 231 continue to be the most-common GM V6.

Another oddity of this engine is that although it is a 90° V6 it has the GM 60° V6 bell housing pattern when it is used in FWD or RWD applications (pre-3800 series RWD cylinder blocks incorporated the BOP bellhousing pattern). For use in the RWD applications, the bellhousings on both the manual and automatic transmissions are altered.

The engine is produced at the Flint North plant in Flint, Michigan.

 

[g20ooh]

Series II ( RPO ) L36 [ 3.8L ]
Introduced in 1995, the Series II is quite a different engine. Although the stroke for the 3.8 L engine remained at 3.4 in (86 mm), and the bore remained at 3.8 in (97 mm), the engine architecture was vastly changed. The piston connecting rods were 1 in (25 mm) shorter, so the crankshaft was redesigned. A new intake manifold improved breathing, and a new cylinder head had larger valves. The result was 205 hp (153 kW) and 230 ft·lbf (312 N·m), better fuel economy, and 26 lb (12 kg) lighter overall weight. In 1999 the 3800 Series II in the Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebird received a new throttle body with Electronic Throttle Control.

The 3800 Series II was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines list for 1995 through 1997.

 

[g20ooh]

Series III (RPO ) L26 [ 3.8L FOLLOW UP TO L36 /NOT LISTED ]
The Series III motors include many changes. The upper intake manifold is now aluminum on the naturally aspirated models. Intake ports are midly improved, 1.83" intake valves (instead of 1.80" as on Series II) and 1.52" exhaust valves were introduced in 2003 engines, just before switching to Series III. Electronic throttle control is added to all versions, as is returnless fuel injection. Stronger powdered metal sinter forged connecting rods are used in 2004+ supercharged, and 2005+ naturally aspirated engines, instead of the cast iron style from Series II engines. Emissions are also reduced. In 2005, it was the first gasoline engine in the industry to attain SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle).

Also note that Series III engines are the base for any 3800 produced for the 2004 year and up. This means the same block, heads, & connecting rods apply to any remaining Series II engines made after 2004 also. The difference is that Series III engines received the new intake manifolds, fuel systems, and electronics.

 

[g20ooh]

[edit] L26 Naturally Aspirated
The L26 is the Series III version of the 3800. It is still a 3.8 L design. Compression remains at 9.4:1 as with previous L36's, but the aluminum upper intake (2004+) and stronger connecting rods (2005+) are the primary physical changes. The powdered metal connecting rods were meant to be introduced in 2004 along with the L32's, but the GM plant in Bay City, MI that supplies the Flint, MI plant could not achieve the desired produtcion dates in time for that engine year.

This engine is used in the following vehicles:

2004+ Pontiac Grand Prix
Buick LaCrosse
Buick Lucerne