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#748795 - 10/16/06 10:45 PM Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deisel
xBlackoutx Offline


Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1
Loc: Arizona, USA
First time poster here, thanks in advance for your time and opinions.

I have a 2001 GMC Duramax truck that had the injectors fail and fill the motor with deisel fuel to the point where it was blowing out of the fill tube. There is a GM service bulliten that was issued that says they have extended the warranty on teh injectors to 200,000 miles and 10 years so the local dealer replaced them under warranty. I told them at that time I didn't think that running deisel fuel inside that motor had done it any good and that the whole motor was suspect in my opinion and was told that "deisel contains some oil so it won't damage anything". I got 2144 miles before a bearing spun and now my motor is trashed and they are telling me that the area rep is denying my warranty coverage because the truck is out of the official 100,000 mile 5 year warranty by 9 months. My point is that the injector failure flooded the engine with solvent, basically, and washed all oil away from the contact areas which caused the failure and the mechanic who is working on it at the local dealership agrees with me completely. I'm looking at $15,600 to get it replaced. I was hoping for some expert opinions on the lubricating properties of deisel fuel as an oil substitute. I'm no expert but I suspect that deisel is not really acceptable as an engine lubricant, and I suspect that the oil pump would not pump it as the viscosity is so low. Any help/tips/advice/pointers towards anything printed that says DO NOT ADD DEISEL FUEL TO YOUR ENGINE, IT WILL DAMAGE IT would be greatly appreciated as the motor is torn apart as I type this and they are awaiting the new engine.

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#748796 - 10/16/06 11:07 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deisel [Re: xBlackoutx]
Black_Thunder Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 789
Loc: Wisconsin
Fuel in your oil is never a good thing to have, diesel may be classified as a fuel oil, but definitely not an oil subsitute, as it may lube surfaces it does not have the same properties and characteristics as Engine Oil.

I think you need to go a step higher over the dealership to get some REAL answers
_________________________
I'd buy Callahan autoparts if I could.

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#748797 - 10/16/06 11:08 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: xBlackoutx]
DieselPower Offline


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 76
Loc: Fairfield, PA
As a previous GM dealership medium/heavy truck mechanic I can tell you that the previous injector failure that filled your crankcase caused this failure, no boubt in my mind.

"deisel contains some oil so it won't damage anything"
POPYCOC!!!

The diesel fuel does have a little bit of lubricity to it and I do mean a little and is only enough to lubricate the injector internals that are designed to be lubricated by the fuel. It does not have the lubricity needed to lubricate bearing's, gears, cylinder wall's/pistons and so on. The fuel offered very little lubrication to the bearing's and they were wiped because of this.

If they want something in writing that states that "DO NOT ADD DEISEL FUEL TO YOUR ENGINE, IT WILL DAMAGE IT" simply pull out your owners manual and ask them to show you in the owners manual where it sais you can add diesel fuel to your oil. Also ask them to show you where diesel fuel is API rated for use in your diesel engine. You will get some dumb looks because they will be stumped.

Next, contact GM customer care and complain about the dealership screwing you around.

I stopped by the dealership I worked at a couple of weeks ago and was speaking with the owner and asked him how thing's were going. I got a sad look and was told "Not to good". Apparently in the last couple of years they have gone from doing 70% cash work / 30% warrenty work to now doing 30% cash work / 70% warrenty work apparantely due to increased new vehicle warrenty's. Let's just say the dealership does not make as much money doing warrenty work as they do doing normal cash work. On top of decreased sales and foreign competition they are hurting. I'm sure your dealership is in the same boat and is trying to deny this claim so they can actually make some money on the repair.

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#748798 - 10/18/06 03:15 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: xBlackoutx]
doitmyself Offline


Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4740
Loc: MI
Many people back off when the area rep barks his decision. They will always try to intimidate you into submission, that's their job.

For $15,000 dollars, I would not hesitate to consult a lawyer. Even though this does not fall under the lemon law guidelines, if you Google Arizona Lemon Law lawyers, you will get many hits for lawyers that specialize in automotive cases. If they are confident you will win, often there is a very small up front charge (under $300) to process the case. In many cases, corporations settle up front with lawyers instead of risking higher costs.

I have successfully battled to win an out of warranty head bolt problem on an '85 Celebrity and also a Lemon Law buy back for an early model Neon.

Go Get Em! And....don't rely to heavily on expert opinion from forums. Get real help.

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#748799 - 10/18/06 03:34 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: doitmyself]
Lonnie Offline


Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 2304
Loc: Los Angles, CA
Be sure to ask the dealer to put those statements in writing.

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#748800 - 10/18/06 03:40 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: Lonnie]
N2OIL Offline


Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 231
Loc: Aviation Capital
dieselplace dot com is a specific duramax site. They have some very sharp mastertechs and owners. Might just take a look.

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#748801 - 10/18/06 07:02 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: N2OIL]
RinconVTR Offline


Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 137
Loc: Milwaukee
You, without doubt, need an attorney at this point.

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#748802 - 10/18/06 08:57 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: RinconVTR]
Jim 5 Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 4009
Loc: Calgary Canada
The engine damage almost certainly resulted from your sump being filled with diesel fuel. The spun bearing was caused by the injector failure which is covered by a 200 mile 10 year warranty. Do not back off on this point. Get your dealership's response in writing, then have it addressed in writing by a lawyer.
_________________________
Jim A
07.5 GMC Sierra 2500HD LMM Rotella 15w-40
09 Odyssey EX-L CT 5w-20
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#748803 - 10/21/06 10:26 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: Jim 5]
oil pan 4 Offline


Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 244
Loc: Hampton, VA
Give them ________.
_________________________
Heavily modified 1984 6.5L suburban.

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#748804 - 10/21/06 11:08 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: oil pan 4]
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 7308
Loc: Buffalo, NY
1) 10yr/200Kmi warranty on injectors
2) Engine was filled to the brim with diesel fuel due to faulty fuel injectors.
3) Produce regular engine oil change receipts and related service records.

With those three, I dont see how you could loose this case?

G/luck
Joel
_________________________
2014 Subaru XV Crosstek 2.0L, 5spd, 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan SE (Babe magnet III)

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#748805 - 10/22/06 04:19 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: JTK]
racer12306 Offline


Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 1555
Loc: Baltimore, MD
shoot we used to use kerosene (#1 fuel oil) to clean greasy/oily parts.

diesel is just #2 fuel oil.

without a doubt, the diesel in the engine caused the problem. anyone ever heard of a diesel spinning a bearing at 100,000 when proper maintenance was applied.

definetly get a lawyer.
_________________________
04 Dodge Neon SXT/2.0/MTX/5w30PU/Fram Ultra/12mo-ish

12 Chrysler T&C/3.6/6A/5w30PU/PureONE/OLM

07 Chevy Impala/3.5/4A/Shop Pref/OLM

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#748806 - 10/23/06 08:51 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: racer12306]
widman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 3071
Loc: Bolivia
Definitely take it to the next level. I have dozens of UOA that show high bearing wear with diesel contamination of the oil. Once there is a fair amount of wear, it continues at a higher rate.
The dealers try to get out of things. A few years ago my starter went out on my Cutlass Supreme. I was out of town when my wife picked up the car and they tricked her into paying $260 because it wasn't covered. I wrote Oldsmobile, with the details and received a check in a few weeks.
_________________________
Richard's Car Restorations

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#748807 - 10/26/06 03:58 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: widman]
tsmay51 Offline


Registered: 06/24/06
Posts: 381
Loc: Irving, Texas
Keep us posted on how this turns out for you. With the bad luck everyone had with the conversion diesels gm did back in the day you would think they would stand behind this a bit better. Them old diesels are the reason I drive a dodge - cummins.
_________________________
2007 Toyota Camry SE 4cyl.
2003 Dodge HO - Cummins Diesel
2001 Honda CRV

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#748808 - 10/27/06 09:42 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: tsmay51]
CBODY67 Offline


Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 88
Loc: DFW area, TX
Key point . . . for the fuel injectors to have done what they allegedly did, it WOULD have degraded performance AND fuel economy to the point that ANYBODY would have noticed that something was wrong--period. Even ONE injector with too high of a flow will cause a "smoke"/economy/power problem (by observation from our customers with those engines), not to mention probably setting a "Check Engine" light code (which would generate data that could be read with the appropriate scan tool!!).

Yes, GM did extend the warranty on the Duramax injectors from what it originally was, but (by observation) most customers brought their trucks in as soon as they noticed something wrong in performance and fuel economy--not waiting until the internal guts were bathed in diesel and spitting it out. To me, that would be a "user issue" rather than a factory warranty issue--due to the time which elapsed between the actual malfunction and when the owner took the vehicle in for repair. An owner worrying about downtime or costs is not a factor here--the owner had to have noticed a significant driveability issue and neglected to get it fixed expeditiously.

Now, you need to address the reason for a bearing to spin, which would relate to "bearing crush" rather than "bearing wear", generally. To effectively address this, you would have had to know the amount of torque that it took to break the connecting rod nuts/bolts loose when you remove the rod "cap". Less assembly torque initially might ultimately result in a bearing not having sufficient "crush" in the assembled connecting rod to keep the inserts stationary in there. Yet with electronic monitoring of assembly tools, this would be an outside chance, not to mention paying attention to when the engine is torn down after the failure! Both issues are probably a little on the fringes and could not be proven (beyond a shadow of a doubt) at this time, I suspect.

Key point . . . injector failure might have diluted the engine oil, which might have resulted in a bearing spinning, but at the mileage you mentioned, this would be under the basic warranty coverage that was expired at the time of failure. Proving "collateral damage" from the injector issue would be the issue here.

Also, please consider that GM factory reps and the engineers that have intimate knowledge of their products (from doing some of the things that many customers seem to do, in their R&D/Service activities) very possibly have a better handle on what it takes to orchestrate particular failures (as your engine had). For example, they have published a TSB on "power adders" and how they can cause failures in Duramax diesel engines (so those in the field can recognize these things when they see them in failed engines).

It's really easy to make the customer out to be the "victim" in these situations, but when you consider the knowledge base of the factory operatives, customers that typically neglect to get their vehicles repaired (especially when a known extended warranty exists!) and then a failure occurs (which could possibly be collateral, but separate) can be their own victims.

IF the bearing that spun had also been loose enough to have a "bearing knock" and lower oil pressure immediately after the injector replacement, THAT would have been a much better indication of collateral damage (from the injector issue) than if it happened after the injector repair was done and had accumulated a good number of miles (which would indicate everything was OK).

It is regrettable that you had such a failure on your Duramax, but it's the customer's/owner's responsibility to take care of maintenance issues (including driveability, which can also affect exhauast emissions!) whether it's a private owner or a fleet. Waiting until "it quits" does not indicate an owner's high priority of maintaining their vehicle in "normal" condition, unfortunately.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

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#748809 - 10/28/06 12:28 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deisel [Re: xBlackoutx]
Hirev Offline


Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 1198
Loc: Oregon
Quote:

fill the motor with deisel fuel to the point where it was blowing out of the fill tube.


Holy cow Certainly this did not happen in just a few miles? Was this motor not running very poorly before it got to this stage. I would think oil pressure would have been very low along with a rising oil level. It would be nice if GM had done a longer warranty on the motor but from what I have seen they did not in this case, it looks like they only covered the injection system. A UOA of the contaminated oil would have been a real good idea and money well spent. You may want to seek some legal advice given the money involved. All I can say is good luck. I know three coworkers that have found out the hard way how expensive diesels can be after the warranty is gone.
_________________________
------
2006 Toyota Tundra, 2007 Corvette, 2009 Scion TC,
2001 KTM 380EXC, 2005 Yamaha FZ1, 2006 Honda 919, 2013 Honda CRF250L, 2013 Yamaha FZ6R

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#748810 - 10/30/06 03:21 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deisel [Re: Hirev]
Black Bart Offline
Banned


Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 502
Loc: Indiana
xBlackoutx
GM can not fix a problem until they are made aware of it.
By your own admission you did not take it to the dealership until it was blowing diesel fuel out the oil filler tube. You ignored the failing oil pressure-You ignored the excessive smoke= You ignored the poor performance.
When you took it in they repaired it but it was too late your stupidity had already ruined it. GM owes you nothing. You did something really stupid and now you get to pay for it. Anyone with an IQ higher than outside temperature would have known their was something wrong with that truck way before you took it in for service.

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#748811 - 10/30/06 04:30 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deisel [Re: Black Bart]
LargeCarManX2 Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 2279
Loc: Up here in the NorthWest
Lets be easy on this guy? I have done plenty of things I am not proud of either. I trashed some engines and other parts from my ignorance in my youth. Let him whom has not made a mistake cast the first stone!

If all else fails, buy a junkyard engine and have a shop install it for you. Tow your truck out of the dealership and go on with life. Hang in there, life will get better.
_________________________
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
– Sir Winston Churchill

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#748812 - 10/30/06 06:25 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: LargeCarManX2]
Cutehumor Offline


Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 8957
Loc: USA
if a service writer told me that garbage, first thing I would say is "you can tell the same thing to my lawyer" nuff said
_________________________
The end time is now

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#748813 - 10/31/06 10:35 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: Cutehumor]
Shelby Offline


Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 664
Loc: Mobile
I sued Chevy on a nothing case, and won:) I basically sued because the area rep disrespected me, and it didn't cost anything becasue the lawyer took a contigency. He wouldn't take the Truck in for service again becasue he said it was only a little squeek, lol. He informed me I had no case, and I never mentioned sueing at all, I just wanted my Truck fixed, lol. I had nothing to lose so I made an appointment with a law dog. Even the lawyer said the case was a dog. To both of our suprise Chevy settled for 10k for a squeeky crossmember, lol. Chances are if you can get a lawyer signed up, they will settle. It costs them too much to fight, and if the case isn't frivilous they have no recourse. Clearly your case isn't frivilous, it is possible that the injector problem caused the failure, but yes you need to have a mechanic that says that is likely what happened. But hire a lawyer first, he will direct you to a mechanic that speaks the language you'll need. I will never buy another Chevy, go get them! Next time buy a Cummins.
_________________________
Hobby- Getting banned from forums for telling the truth.

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#748814 - 11/16/06 06:50 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: Shelby]
twoheeldrive Offline


Registered: 10/13/05
Posts: 6
Loc: KansasCity
Ouch! I agree, hire a lawyer and go after them. My theory on the failure is a bit different. I agree that diesel would have very limited lubricating properties, even when mixed with crankcase oil, but I suspect that most of the damage to the bearing(s) was caused by air whipped into the "oil" by the crank and the resulting loss of pressure and lubrication.

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#748815 - 11/17/06 03:13 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: twoheeldrive]
Rico567 Offline


Registered: 09/08/06
Posts: 173
Loc: IL
It seems improbable, given the facts presented here, that the injector failure is not connected to the spun bearing. What is needed here, I think, is an independent expert "second opinion" on what caused the MB failure. You may have to pay for that, but it's bound to be a small fraction of $15K.....
_________________________
'13 VW Passat TDI, '04 SAAB 9-5 wagon, '02 Dodge Dakota 4x4

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#748816 - 12/19/06 03:38 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: Rico567]
kane Offline


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 12
Loc: so ca
did the original poster ever get this engine replaced?

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#748817 - 06/27/07 06:12 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: kane]
LordAbbett Offline


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 189
Loc: Georgia
Would be curious to know what happened here. I was told that because of the location of the injector( on the original Duramax only not the 2nd generation) it can leak fuel inside the valve covers. So fuel can fill the crankcase w/out it coming by way of cylinder wash with rough running smoke etc

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#748818 - 06/27/07 02:41 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: doitmyself]
Merkava_4 Online   content


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 9371
Loc: Clovis, CA
Quote:

For $15,000 dollars, I would not hesitate to consult a lawyer.




That's exactly what I was thinking!

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#748819 - 06/27/07 03:42 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: Merkava_4]
daman Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 10486
Loc: Bad Axe, MI
One time we had a single axle dump with a DT466 and the
injector pump was leaking fuel into the motor it would
get so full when you would floor it it would blow out
a stream of oil out the block vent and you could see it
on the road behind you , we had to change the oil
every two/three days until the mechanic had time to fix
it, that old truck is still going to this day, never hurt it.
_________________________
"Always"....Mobil 1

Current fill: AFE 0w30

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#748820 - 06/30/07 08:04 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: daman]
G-MAN Offline


Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 8869
Loc: SC
This guy's story reminds me of an old family friend who was a farmer. Back in the early 80s he bought a new Chevy half ton pickup with the 454 big block in it at my recommendation. He'd had one with the 305 small block and just wasn't happy with the lackluster performance. He'd had the big block about a year when I was back up in Va visiting and I noticed he had a new Ford with a 460 in it. Turns out the 454 threw a rod on I95 going to Richmond. The diaphragm in the fuel pump developed a leak and was flooding the crankcase with raw gasoline. The old guy's response when I questioned him about it: "Well I wondered how come the oil level kept rising and was above the full mark every time I checked it. I just kept draining it off." I just shook my head. For weeks he had literally been draining oil to keep the level on the full mark on the dipstick. The eventual result (obviously) was by the time the engine blew up there was almost nothing in the crankcase but gasoline.
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#748821 - 07/24/07 05:28 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: G-MAN]
Syntec-Man Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 478
Loc: CANADA EH?
that is freakin hilarious G-MAN awesome story
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#748822 - 07/24/07 05:33 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: Syntec-Man]
daman Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 10486
Loc: Bad Axe, MI
Gman have you posted that story somewhere before? ---- i recall hearing that before.
_________________________
"Always"....Mobil 1

Current fill: AFE 0w30

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#748823 - 07/24/07 08:16 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: daman]
1sttruck Offline


Registered: 03/20/04
Posts: 4378
Loc: Camas, WA
"The diaphragm in the fuel pump developed a leak and was flooding the crankcase with raw gasoline."

When I was a teen a mechanically challenged friend bought the book 'How to Keep Your Volkswagon Alive, Written for the Complete Idiot'. It was a very good book, but still required that you could read and follow directions, with no second guessing if you didn't any better. He adjusted the valves, but evidently set them 180 degrees out and bent them all against the pistons. After getting that fixed he replaced a fuel pump, and evidently didn't adjust for stroke, the diaphragm punctured, the crankacse filled with gasoline and destroyed the engine. He quit working on the car, and I assume burned the book in some hideous midnight ceremony.

A former manager said that not long after his son started a job at a gas station, he recieved a call saying that something didn't seem right when he filled a VW bus up with gas, as it only held a few gallons while the owner said that it had always held a lot more. He yelled 'DO NOT START THE ENGINE', as old VW buses had an oil filler cap on the outside, which he had filed. They changed the oil, and didn't even charge for the crankcse flush :^)

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#748824 - 07/25/07 08:01 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: daman]
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 39806
Loc: Pottstown, PA
Quote:

Gman have you posted that story somewhere before? ---- i recall hearing that before.




It's not the only engine that it's happened to. One of my teachers watched someone do a rebuild/refit on a Vette, but they retained the old fuel pump. Gravity feed tank in the Vette (or gravity draining-able)...fill the tank up ..fill the crankcase up a few hours later.

This was the lesson taught to make sure that you didn't save $13 (at the time) for a whole lot of time and money in doing it over.
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#748825 - 07/25/07 10:03 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: Gary Allan]
carlprop Offline


Registered: 08/08/04
Posts: 302
Loc: Placerville, CA
Carbureted vehicles were around many years with mechanical fuel pumps. I have heard of the diaphragm being damaged filling up the crankcase with fuel. However, I don't remember this being a common problem to change fuel pumps as preventative maintenance.
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#748826 - 08/19/07 09:31 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: carlprop]
Propflux01 Offline


Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 3118
Loc: Arkansastan
I am assuming that even diesel fuel will pump and show pressure, and if the oil pressure indicator is anything like the idiot guages that show full guage pressure with only 9 psi, I wouldn't take much to have the guage showing good, and the driver not notice it.
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#748827 - 10/31/07 04:27 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: Propflux01]
Rabbler Offline


Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 502
Loc: Canada
The design of the fuel system is poor on the early LB7 duramax engines. The Injectors, high and low pressure fuel lines are under the valve covers. Fuel Even flows through the cyl heads. I've heard many stories of contaminated crank cases with diesel fuel (gallons) It can happen quickly. I personally know of two cases where the leak filled the crankcase to the point of flowing out the vent in less than a day. No driveability concerns noted in either case. There is a reason they redesigned it 4 years later. I think the OP has a case for the repairs under consequential damage.

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#748828 - 11/01/07 10:21 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: twoheeldrive]
wgtoys Offline


Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 1240
Loc: California
Had the injectors not been defective it is highly unlikely that the engine would now be worthless. Thus the root cause of the problem is the failed injectors, which GM has already uncharacteristically admitted were it's fault.

This is a lot like the failing intake manifold gaskets on so many GM V-6 engines. Often the resulting coolant leak into the motor oil then caused massive engine failure. GM has ducked and jived on that issue for ages as well.

Get a good lawyer and go for the throat. I don't buy the shared responsibility argument of CBODY67 at all. The root cause is a GM screw up and that is where the bulk of responsibility for dealing with the consequences should morally sit. It is, however, very rare to find anyone employed in the automotive industry who believes that whoever created the root cause of a problem should be held responsible for fixing it as best as possible. Whoever said diesel has enough oil in it to be a good lubricant is either a ---- artist or a fool, or perhaps both.

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#748829 - 11/02/07 06:09 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: wgtoys]
widman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 3071
Loc: Bolivia
There is no doubt that the diesel caused it. If you had UOA you could show that the dilution was causing higher bearing wear. I have dozens (even one in today's lot I was analyzing this morning).
ALSO: I could suspect that the spun bearing was a direct result of injector failure: I just spent $4000 to rebuild the 3.0 Diesel in my 4Runner. Injector failure filled the #1 cylinder with diesel hydrolocking it. Upon starting, the pressure on starting it bent the rod and sleeve, spinning the bearing. I have UOA on it, but they had never leaked before.
Of course my warrantee was 5 years/62,000 miles and I had 6 years and 65,000 miles on it.
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#748830 - 11/04/07 05:02 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: widman]
mazduh30 Offline


Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 306
Loc: BC Canada
Hope the best of luck xblackoutx. Had a car in the shop about a month ago. Guy had his friend do a "tune-up" who crossed wires. Checked his dipstick (out of habit), was close to 3L overfilled with gas. The guy drove his car for close to a week before bringing it in.

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#1024783 - 11/08/07 09:24 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: mazduh30]
ARB1977 Offline


Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 4504
Loc: North Texas
Any updated info on this case.
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2002 Tacoma 3.4L 163K (as of 09-21-14)
M1 Super HM 5W30 & MoS2 / Fram Synthetic

2008 CRV 2.4L 105K (as of 03-22-14)
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#1025242 - 11/08/07 10:09 PM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: ARB1977]
MrCritical Offline


Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 2340
Loc: La.
The most he can possibly get is a percentage of the cost of a new engine. Sounds like the owner must bear part of the blame as well.

Doesn't/Didn't Ford have the same injector under the valve cover design?

If your engine under warranty leaked oil till it burned the engine up is the manufacturer liable? I don't think so. So why should they be if it leaks fuel?

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#1025305 - 11/09/07 12:24 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: MrCritical]
wgtoys Offline


Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 1240
Loc: California
"If your engine under warranty leaked oil till it burned the engine up is the manufacturer liable? "

Generally the answer is yes. If the oil leak was a defect and that defect in turn caused further damage then yes, it is covered by warranty.

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#1025399 - 11/09/07 07:20 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: wgtoys]
MrCritical Offline


Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 2340
Loc: La.
The special policy does not give the dealer the authority to replace engines, so therefore your fight is not with the dealer.

Any lawyer who tells you to expect to get GM to buy a new engine should be discarded immediately. You will have to deduct for the amount of use you got out of the engine.

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#1030481 - 11/18/07 09:37 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: xBlackoutx]
Raceman Offline


Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 18
Loc: Collierville, Tn
Everyone is quick to jump on GM. I have real world experience with diesels as a manufacturers rep. Injectors rarely "fail". They become contaminated with dirt or water or are overstressed by "hot boxes". In either case, the injector overfuels the cylinder causing a meltdown in a cylinder or leaks, allowing fuel into the sump. Neither of these situations should be covered by a warranty as the injector is not defective. This is a passionite issue with owners because it is very expensive to repair/replace a diesel engine. My 2 cents to diesel owners. Do not mess with the operating parameters of your engine. It produces plenty of power in stock form. Regardless of what the hot box manufacturers say, they are the death of injectors. Secondly, be religious in the maintenance of your fuel system. Drain the filter housing regularly, replace your filter regularly, use only clean fuel from reputable sources, do not use fuel from an aux tank, they are nortorious for being full of dirt,rust and water. Last, contrary to popular opinion, do not let your engine for extended periods. If it must idle for more than several minutes, shut it down. Idleing is hard on injectors.

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#1032299 - 11/21/07 02:56 AM Re: Duramax Engine Failure-Engine Filled With Deis [Re: Raceman]
Bill Plock Offline


Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 335
Loc: Owego, NY
 Originally Posted By: Raceman
Everyone is quick to jump on GM. I have real world experience with diesels as a manufacturers rep. Injectors rarely "fail". They become contaminated with dirt or water or are overstressed by "hot boxes". In either case, the injector overfuels the cylinder causing a meltdown in a cylinder or leaks, allowing fuel into the sump. Neither of these situations should be covered by a warranty as the injector is not defective. This is a passionite issue with owners because it is very expensive to repair/replace a diesel engine. My 2 cents to diesel owners. Do not mess with the operating parameters of your engine. It produces plenty of power in stock form. Regardless of what the hot box manufacturers say, they are the death of injectors. Secondly, be religious in the maintenance of your fuel system. Drain the filter housing regularly, replace your filter regularly, use only clean fuel from reputable sources, do not use fuel from an aux tank, they are nortorious for being full of dirt,rust and water. Last, contrary to popular opinion, do not let your engine for extended periods. If it must idle for more than several minutes, shut it down. Idleing is hard on injectors.


Raceman,

Good points on diesel power boost risks and the need for proper maintenance … I heartily agree!

However, in the case of the early LB7 Duramax there is a known deficiency in the Bosch HPCR injectors. Due to this flaw GM has extended the warranty to 200Kmi/7yrs. Many Dmax owners who have well-maintained, stock trucks still have problems with injectors. Many of these folks have also added supplemental filtration.

Here’s a snip from the latest customer letter GM is sending out.

“November 2007 Bulletin No.: 04039B
Dear General Motors Customer:
As the owner of a 2001-04 model year Chevrolet Silverado; GMC Sierra or 2003-04 Chevrolet Kodiak; GMC TopKick vehicle, your satisfaction with our product is very important to us.This letter is intended to make you aware that some 2001-04 model year Chevrolet Silverado, GMC Sierra; 2003-04 Chevrolet Kodiak and GMC TopKick vehicles, equipped with a 6.6L Duramax Diesel engine, may have a condition where the engine fuel injectors may require replacement because of high fuel return rates due to fuel injector body cracks, or ball seat erosion, or high pressure seal extrusion. Symptoms of these conditions include illumination of the service engine soon (SES) light, low engine power, hard start, and/or fuel in the crankcase. Do not take your vehicle to your GM dealer as a result of this letter unless you believe that your vehicle has the condition as described above. General Motors is providing owners with additional protection for the fuel injectors. If this condition occurs on your 2001-04 model year Chevrolet Silverado, GMC Sierra; 2003-04 Chevrolet Kodiak or GMC TopKick vehicle within seven (7) years of the date your vehicle was originally placed in service or 200,000 miles (320,000 km), whichever occurs first, the condition will be repaired for you at no charge. Diagnosis or repair for conditions other than the condition described above is not covered under this special coverage program.”
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03 2500HD Dmax UOA
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