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#607574 - 05/08/05 09:08 AM BEWARE BY-PASS filters ! !
2Grand4s Offline


Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 12
Loc: Long Island, New York
This is a true story about a By-Pass filter that cost me $12,000 !

I thought I did my sister a favor installing a new Amsoil dual By-Pass filter on her Subaru. At about 30,000 miles the engine failed due to a bearing failure. Subaru of America (SOA) siad the By-Pass filter was an engine modification that voided the warranty. While I paid to restore my sister's car with new short block, Amsoil had a 3rd party analysis done to the engine, and it determined the AMSOIL By-Pass unit was not a factor in the engine failure. A few thousand miles later the engine again failed from a different bearing, and again SOA said 'Not Our Problem' , and again Amsoils 3rd party said the filter was NOT a contributor., and again I got stuck with the bill. Today years later Amsoil has done nothing to help, and I have no money to hire lawyers to sue two large corporations even though one of them makes a defective product, without question.

Incidentally, that Subaru now has 100K miles on engine # 3 and since it has had No By-Pass filter it has not failed. So it would seem SOA was correct, the Amsoil By-Pass filter was present in both engine failures, and when removed the engine worked just fine !

So BEWARE ! Don't make my mistake ! The Amsoil Guarantee is worthless !

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#607575 - 05/08/05 09:26 AM Re: BEWARE BY-PASS filters ! !
tom slick Offline


Registered: 05/26/03
Posts: 8572
Loc: Central Coast, Calif.
how was the filter causing the engine damage?

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#607576 - 05/08/05 09:52 AM Re: BEWARE BY-PASS filters ! !
brian Offline


Registered: 01/28/03
Posts: 188
Loc: Colorado
Most people use Amsoil bypass filtration systems without incident. I have direct experience with the bypass filter on one of my own vehicles. The first base they sent me was defective and it was replaced before it was installed free of charge to me. The defect was that the reducer on the base was missing and would have caused a massive loss of oil pressure and probable engine failure. I wonder if there is more to this story that we are not hearing. Any more details?

Brian

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#607577 - 05/08/05 09:56 AM Re: BEWARE BY-PASS filters ! !
Penelope77546 Offline


Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 10
Loc: Houston, TX
low oil pressure ?? read Bobistheoilguy filter study and the remarks about the dual bypass filter

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#607578 - 05/07/05 11:11 PM Re: BEWARE BY-PASS filters ! !
msparks Offline


Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 3324
Loc: Clarksville, Tennessee
quote:
Originally posted by Penelope77546:
low oil pressure ?? read Bobistheoilguy filter study and the remarks about the dual bypass filter

I just havn't seen this. There are thousands of dual remotes installed on all types of equipment and I see non of the failures you mention.

Do you have any oil anlaysis with the high lead that would cuase you to think lack or lubrication? Just wondering.

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#607579 - 05/07/05 11:17 PM Re: BEWARE BY-PASS filters ! !
Hammer Offline


Registered: 02/21/04
Posts: 481
Loc: Goose Creek, SC
quote:
Originally posted by 2Grand4s:
This is a true story about a By-Pass filter that cost me $12,000 !

I thought I did my sister a favor installing a new Amsoil dual By-Pass filter on her Subaru. At about 30,000 miles the engine failed due to a bearing failure. Subaru of America (SOA) siad the By-Pass filter was an engine modification that voided the warranty. While I paid to restore my sister's car with new short block, Amsoil had a 3rd party analysis done to the engine, and it determined the AMSOIL By-Pass unit was not a factor in the engine failure. A few thousand miles later the engine again failed from a different bearing, and again SOA said 'Not Our Problem' , and again Amsoils 3rd party said the filter was NOT a contributor., and again I got stuck with the bill. Today years later Amsoil has done nothing to help, and I have no money to hire lawyers to sue two large corporations even though one of them makes a defective product, without question.

Incidentally, that Subaru now has 100K miles on engine # 3 and since it has had No By-Pass filter it has not failed. So it would seem SOA was correct, the Amsoil By-Pass filter was present in both engine failures, and when removed the engine worked just fine !

So BEWARE ! Don't make my mistake ! The Amsoil Guarantee is worthless !

I could see this scenario happening if the lube system is at the flow capacity as to not have the excess oil flow to supply a bypass filter. I know with my Cummins N14, Cummins has allowance of 2 gallons/minute that can be used for items such as a bypass filter and other auxilleries. Since my Oilguard bypass has an orifice that restricts flow to approximately 2 quarts.min@60psi, I fall within my engine guidelines for auxillery oil flow. Makes me wonder what the flowrate is on the Amsoil unit and how much oil flow Subaru engines can spare for auxillery use, apparently not much or Amsoil flows too much.

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#607580 - 05/08/05 12:03 AM Re: BEWARE BY-PASS filters ! !
RWeis Offline


Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 10
Loc: Central Florida
Interesting concept,

How would one find out the excess flow rate of their engine? (Cummins ISB 2002)

Bob Weis

My RACOR LFS-802 flows 1 quart / minute hot idle @ 40 psi advertised at 1 1/2 quart / min.

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#607581 - 05/08/05 01:18 AM Re: BEWARE BY-PASS filters ! !
wulimaster Offline


Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 1011
Loc: Montgomery, Alabama
I agree with Brian. There is more to this story than what is given in the brief description. What did subaru claim caused the damage? What did the 3rd party claim caused the damage? What specifically was the damage? Most engines contain a relief valve ahead of the filter in case the filter becomes clogged. High oil pressure at the bypass/fullflow would cause this valve to open. I am assuming BK-13. The BK12 isn't really recommended for small aplications like this.

Anyone know how long an engine bearing would last without a sufficient oil film to float it? I suspect it wouldn't last 30k miles. My guess is your sister ran the vehicle with low oil pressure (low on oil) for a while to cause the bearing to fail.

You shouldn't go badmouthing Amsoil without any proof. From what you said, SOA never said it was caused by the bypass. They only claimed that the bypass voided warrenty.

You left out an enormous amount of information. Specifically, what caused the problem? If SOA can't prove that the bypass caused the problem then they owe you a refund. Saying it voids warrenty isn't the same as saying it had anything to do with the problem.

How much spare amsoil did you give your sister and how much did she use up between filter changes? Could she have added the oil after the damage was done?

Lots of questions. What bypass setup did you use and where did you plumb it?

[ May 08, 2005, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: wulimaster ]

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#607582 - 05/08/05 09:21 AM Re: BEWARE BY-PASS filters ! !
Hammer Offline


Registered: 02/21/04
Posts: 481
Loc: Goose Creek, SC
quote:
Originally posted by RWeis:
Interesting concept,

How would one find out the excess flow rate of their engine? (Cummins ISB 2002)

Bob Weis

My RACOR LFS-802 flows 1 quart / minute hot idle @ 40 psi advertised at 1 1/2 quart / min.

Call 1-800-diesels....which just happens to be Cummins free tech line. You can speak with an Cummins rep/tech that can give you the info.

Hammer

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#607583 - 05/08/05 10:53 PM Re: BEWARE BY-PASS filters ! !
2Grand4s Offline


Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 12
Loc: Long Island, New York
That you all acknowledge there should be more to this story, makes my point. The Subaru has 'Idiot lights' for low oil pressure, the lights never went on ! The engine used no oil, and had no leaks. The car was in a Subaru dealer 3 days before the engine first failed. They reported no problems with the engine. Subaru never had to explain why the Amsoil Dual By-Pass unit voided the warranty beyond it was an unauthorized engine modification. I can't force them to do that without spending tens of thousands in legal fees. AMSOIL sent them the reports from the 3rd party inspectors to which Subaru replied, So What !
Did Amsoil protect me, their Amsoil Dealer left to pay for the repairs to my customers car - NO ! Did they take Subaru to court and force them to honor the warranty they voided because an AMSOIL product was installed on the motor, and used as the excuse for that action, NO ! You are all correct, there should have been more to this story. That AMSOIL left me to fend for myself against a major auto manufacturer shows how they value their 'dealers' and stand behind their products, WAY behind their products ! This can be any of you ! This filter unit was installed properly and working as Amsoil designed it ! My attempt to work with them was sincere, I was 'out' 12 Grand ! Amsoil would have had to take Subaru to courtand Amsoil was unwilling to pay for that. They also made no offer to reimburse me for any part of the 12 Grand I lost for using Amsoil's product. I sent them copies of all the bills, photo's of the engine parts that failed, they already had their inspector go over the motors, both of them. ONLY CONCLUSION : The AMSOIL WARRANTY IS WORTHLESS ! BEWARE !

[ May 09, 2005, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: 2Grand4s ]

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#607584 - 05/08/05 11:22 PM Re: BEWARE BY-PASS filters ! !
Clement Offline


Registered: 03/23/04
Posts: 341
Loc: Upstate, NY
If Amisol said that their product did not cause the failure, then what is their obligation to you?

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#607585 - 05/08/05 11:38 PM Re: BEWARE BY-PASS filters ! !
Bio-T Offline



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 5336
Loc: London, AR
Actually the Amsoil warranty is NOT worthless. Their product did not fail and cause an engine failure. This was verified by a third party. The engine failed, not once, but twice. The third time Sabaru got it right.

If you had to buy a new engine and the warranty was denied because of the engine modification, why in the blazes did you put the Amsoil Dual Bypass on the second time? I may talk slow, but I ain't dumb.

Now for the part that will irritate everyone, and I apologize, but IF you modify your engine in any way you become your own Warranty Station. And I do not disagree with this policy. The engine was designed with a full flow, not a remote full flow with a bypass filter included. So anyone adding one under warranty is open to interpetation by the Dealer/Mfg in case of an engine related problem.

No I don't sell anything, I am just posting my personal opinion.

[I dont know]

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#607586 - 05/08/05 11:41 PM Re: BEWARE BY-PASS filters ! !
2Grand4s Offline


Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 12
Loc: Long Island, New York
Amsoil says the engine blew from some cause other than their filter unit, which I had sold to my sister, because I was an AMSOIL dealer. If every AMSOIL dealer understands that they, and NOT AMSOIL, will be forced to pay for any repairs when the AMSOIL product they sell for AMSOIL, is blamed, I will be happy. AMSOIL deludes dealers into thinking when they end up between the auto manufacturer, who voids the warranty, by the mere presence of the AMSOIL product, and AMSOIL, that AMSOIL Guarantees to pay the bill. In this case either the engine failed because it was defective, or because AMSOILS filter caused it to fail, so either Subaru or AMSOIL should pay. If you are a Dealer with tens of thousands to hire lawyers to make that happen, then by all means become an AMSOIL dealer. BUT NEVER DELUDE YOURSELF INTO BELIEVING AMSOIL WILL PROTECT YOU IN ANY WAY !

BTW, the Subaru has gone another 100,000 miles with no by-pass filter, and no additional engine failures. So Subaru is probably correct, the AMSOIL FILTER DID CAUSE THE ENGINE FAILURES ! I wish I could afford to sue all these people just to prove the point, but 12,000 bucks is all I'm willing to lose. How much can you afford ?

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#607587 - 05/08/05 11:53 PM Re: BEWARE BY-PASS filters ! !
2Grand4s Offline


Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 12
Loc: Long Island, New York
Vetteman,

The AMSOIL line at the time of engine failure # 1 was, hey it will be covered by the Amsoil Warranty, so go ahead and don't worry ! After engine failure one was ruled NOT caused by the Amsoil filter by the supposedly dependable 3rd party inspector, Why Not re-install the 'supposedly' better filter unit on the motor. After all it was NOT a contributing factor, AND I had Amsoil and their Dealer Guarantee to support me. By the time the Subaru letter was recieved after the attempt by Amsoil to reason with them, it was apparent that neither company would stand behind their product, and engine #2 had already blown !

So the AMSOIL WARRANTY IS PROVEN WORTHLESS ! They support their dealers by leaving them to fend for themselves, like I said, and they accept no responsibility for telling those dealers that auto manufacturers can not void the warranty for simply installing and using the Amsoil product properly, like I did ! They LIED ! The even talk about the Moss-Magnuson Law making such warranty voiding Illegal. Of course they fail to mention that the cost of enforcement against a major auto maker falls on the personal bank account of the Amsoil dealer himself. Why ? Because AMSOIL will not pay a red cent, because the Amsoil Guarantee is WORTHLESS !

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#607588 - 05/09/05 12:02 AM Re: BEWARE BY-PASS filters ! !
Bio-T Offline



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 5336
Loc: London, AR
If you had to buy a new engine and the warranty was denied because of the engine modification, why in the blazes did you put the Amsoil Dual Bypass on the second time? I may talk slow, but I ain't dumb.


2Grand4s, somewhere along the line, you need to look in the mirror and say why me? What did I contribute to this demise.

It is unusual for a poster to come on the board and all 7 of his posts are about this problem. I think you have stated it well, and I hope no one else makes the same mistake. But if I have an engine problem, I take anything off that is not OEM before I visit the Dealer. And I durn sure don't put it back on another new engine if I have any doubt. Time to take some responsibility for your own actions. You know it is funny, Subaru escapes your wrath in all this tirade. Just odd, nothing wrong with that.

Shoot, I don't even know why I am defending Amsoil, I am not even using their oil right now.

[No no]

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