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#549684 - 03/12/04 10:40 AM Possible damage to engine if driven with bad EGR valve for a prolonged period?
RipRocK Offline


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 28
Loc: Edmonton, AB., Canada
My 2003 Pilot finally threw up an error code which confirmed that I have an improperly functioning EGR valve. However, I've long suspected this because I've had the symptoms for about 9 months now.

Could having had driven a car with a bad EGR valve for such a long time have inflicted any kind of damage to the engine/emission system or to anything else at all? When I take my Pilot in for service next week, can anyone think something I should have checked out due to my prolonged EGR situation I had with my car?

The most notable symptom I experienced with this bad EGR valve was the big vibration/shaking it would produce. I would feel it starting from the engine, then right away, the whole car would shake. Should I have them inspect the engine mounts and other places in the engine well with bolts holding down the engine?

Also, during this time, I felt very noticeable hesitations, almost a buckling sometimes at certain speeds between 1500RPM-1900RPM when the gear normally shift up/down (at 25MPH (40KM/H) and at 35MPH(60KM/H)) and felt as though the transmission was hesitating when shifting. Is this something a bad EGR valve could have caused or do I have a whole different tranny problem?

(FYI: Even though I had the symptoms for close to 9 months, it was too intermitten for the service techs to have duplicated the problem whenever I took it in to the dealer. But in the last month or so, the problem has become much worse and finally was able to go for a testdrive just a couple of days ago with a tech and see for himself how badly the car shook. That's when the appointment was made to bring my car in next Tuesday. But the Check Engine light came on in my car on three different ocassions now and each time, I took it to the dealer to have the error code read. Just waiting for Tuesday....)

[ March 13, 2004, 02:43 AM: Message edited by: RipRocK ]

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#549685 - 03/12/04 12:58 PM Re: Possible damage to engine if driven with bad EGR valve for a prolonged period?
digitaldrifter91 Offline


Registered: 09/14/02
Posts: 1902
Loc: cali
the dealer will cover that. im not sure what it is hurting though.

but if any emmisions stuff fails within the first year i think the dealer will cover it. its in the law somewhere, at least in california it is.

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#549686 - 03/12/04 01:09 PM Re: Possible damage to engine if driven with bad EGR valve for a prolonged period?
cryptokid Offline


Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 1565
Loc: palm beach
if it failed in the closed position it shouldnt hurt anything. if it failed in the open position i do not know if anything would be hurt or not.

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#549687 - 03/12/04 04:24 PM Re: Possible damage to engine if driven with bad EGR valve for a prolonged period?
cousincletus Offline


Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 2513
Loc: Richmond, VA
A stuck EGR valve can cause the engine to ping, and that will soon destroy it. [crushedcar]

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#549688 - 03/12/04 09:18 PM Re: Possible damage to engine if driven with bad EGR valve for a prolonged period?
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 7228
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Based on the performance issues you described, it sounds like the EGR valve pintle occationally sticks in the open position. EGR typically should only takes place at low load, highway speed driving conditions. If EGR is taking place on a cold engine, at idle, or during high-load, WOT conditions, you will get stalling, stumbling, misfires, etc.. EGR that fails to ever come on can cause higher than normal combustion chamber temps, which as cousincletis said, can cause pinging. High cylinder temps is aslo hard on oil which could lead to serious ring pack issues in the long term. EGR systems on today's vehicles need periodic decarboning. It's usually not a defective valve, just plugged plumbing causing low or no flow, or a stuck pintle. Try running a products like Fuel Power & Lube Control in the future to see if this can be prevented.
G/luck!
Joel

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#549689 - 03/13/04 01:54 AM Re: Possible damage to engine if driven with bad EGR valve for a prolonged period?
RipRocK Offline


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 28
Loc: Edmonton, AB., Canada
Thanks to all of you for your quick replies. I really appreciate it.

cousincletus, JTK: When I read about how a stuck EGR valve can make the engine ping, it made my heart sink. I've had a pinging noise issue, almost from the day I bought my new car, about 19 months/28,000miles/45,000KM ago now. I'm guessing that perhaps the EGR valve on my car was bad from day one and that's why car's always made this pinging noise whenever under moderately hard to hard load. Just my bum luck that the valve throws a code now, after all this time, instead of shortly after I got the car.

If this prolonged pinging noise I had from the beginning was due to the bad EGR valve, what kind of damage could it have inflicted on my engine? What else should I have the technician check out when my car goes in a few days to diagnose the bad EGR error code my car gave? What kind of damage can prolonged pinging cause to an engine? Thanks for your time and courtesy.

[Just in case you're wondering, I've been changing and been having the scheduled service religiously and at 5,000KM/3,000mile interval, even though the manual said to do it at 6,000KM/3,700mile interval. Started using Mobil1 at the 12,000mile mark and have been using Techron right before each of the the last 4 oil changes. Been using regular gas with premium in between off and on to see if I can make the pinging go away ever since I got my car. Did not help.]

[ March 13, 2004, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: RipRocK ]

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#549690 - 03/13/04 02:39 AM Re: Possible damage to engine if driven with bad EGR valve for a prolonged period?
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 7228
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Some engines ping lightly on hard acceleration and/or heavy loads even though you are using recommended fuels. It's a design issue that rarely effects the service life of the engine. HEAVY and continuous pinging thru all operating conditions is not good, and will typically burn holes thru pistons [Eek!] . Unless you had that going on, I wouldn't worry about it. Rest at ease & have Honda fix it for you.
G/luck
Joel

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#549691 - 03/13/04 04:39 AM Re: Possible damage to engine if driven with bad EGR valve for a prolonged period?
cousincletus Offline


Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 2513
Loc: Richmond, VA
Try using 89 octane or higher and see if this fixes the pinging issue. Supposedly an engine will ping just a little when it is running at its peak efficiency. Wouldn't worry unless it's pinging all the time. [Cheers!]

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#549692 - 03/13/04 07:08 AM Re: Possible damage to engine if driven with bad EGR valve for a prolonged period?
RipRocK Offline


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 28
Loc: Edmonton, AB., Canada
quote:
Originally posted by JTK:
Some engines ping lightly on hard acceleration and/or heavy loads even though you are using recommended fuels. It's a design issue that rarely effects the service life of the engine. HEAVY and continuous pinging thru all operating conditions is not good, and will typically burn holes thru pistons [Eek!] . Unless you had that going on, I wouldn't worry about it. Rest at ease & have Honda fix it for you.
G/luck
Joel

quote:
Originally posted by cousincletus:
Try using 89 octane or higher and see if this fixes the pinging issue. Supposedly an engine will ping just a little when it is running at its peak efficiency. Wouldn't worry unless it's pinging all the time. [Cheers!]

Joel, cousincletus, thanks again for your quick replies. Even though I had the pinging from the beginning, it was faint and would only occur under moderately hard to hard load. So, your comments does ease my mind quite a bit. I'll take my car in this coming Tuesday and see what happens. Thanks again!
Steve

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#549693 - 03/15/04 11:38 PM Re: Possible damage to engine if driven with bad EGR valve for a prolonged period?
RipRocK Offline


Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 28
Loc: Edmonton, AB., Canada
Just took my Pilot in to get it diagnosed and it's been decided that the EGR valve will be replaced. Of course, the technician who took the error code a few days ago, with whom I had a discussion about possibly needing to replace it, never ordered one prior to today, so I have to wait until it comes in [Mad] [Mad]

What really troubled me though was all the thick carbon deposits caked up on the underside of the intake manifold cover, especially towards the EGR port area. The port itself was gunked up pretty good too, so I'll make sure they clean that out. BTW, does anyone know the best way to clean out the EGR port? Is there a special tool to perform this task?

What I'm really concerned with though is that, because there was so much carbon deposit that had accumulated in the intake manifold, I'm now wondering how the heck my pistons/cylinders/valves/and who knows what else might look like. Is there a good chance that those parts would be caked with carbon deposits as well? And because of that, would that be the reason I've been suffering from the pinging noise issue?

If you guys had the same EGR related problem and witnessed all that gunk deposited where I saw, would you go further and check out the other possibly affected areas as well? If so, where would it be? Which engine components or parts? Arrrrgh!!! I didn't get a Honda to put myself through this BS!

[Oh, FYI, I got to watch the technician work on my Pilot in the service bay and he sprayed some throttle cleaner to the manifold. And while he went to discuss my situation with the head technician, I sprayed some more and gently scraped the thick deposits away with a screw driver. I did a thorough job and took the manifold cover over to the carwash area and dipped it in the soap bucket they had and then rinsed it down real good with the jetspray they had. So, the manifold cover is pretty clean now. Just hope it stays that way!]

[ March 16, 2004, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: RipRocK ]

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