Expected Automatic transmission life?

[crossbow]

30 year old, 250k+ miles, TH400 on a 74 Grandam.

Has a shift kit installed, and an auxilary cooler.

Constantly abused for much of its 30 yr life, including autocrossing, track, and heavy drag racing use, as well as a primary tow vehicle for a race car.

Still shifts hard enough to buckle the entire chassis....ah old cars rule.

 

[mike1qaz]

As digitaldrifter said earlier, the 6th Gen Accord auto tranny has been having more problems than Honda has had in the past. Honda extended the transmission warranty to 100K.

Knowing this, I've been draining/refilling my 2001 Accord every 20K with the ATF-Z1 from Honda and I expected to reach 200K.

I've put 111K on my car in 3 years, with most of that being done in the first 2 years (1500 miles/week). 90% of this has been interstate crusing @70mph (supposedly the easiest type of miles.

But...just last week at 111,842, my wife said she was experiencing 1st to 2nd gear shift problems. The fluid had been drained/refilled within 10K and the level had checked good the week before, so I attributed this to the cold snap and the tranny holding 1st gear longer to warmup. No such luck. It got progressively worse. No puddle under vehicle, but the undercarriage was wet and the fluid level was low. I've cleaned the undercarriage to try to find where the fluid is coming from, but no luck yet. Funny thing about it is after 5 minutes are so, it shifts as well as it always has since new. Time to take it to a tranny shop, I guess.

If these long interstate cruising miles are indeed considered easy miles, than most other 6th Gen owners might consider abusing theirs before the extended transmission warranty is up to get the free replacement.

I'm disappointed, I've babied this car, especially knowing about the weak transmission, but I'm another 6th Gen casualty.

To get back on topic, the 6th Gen Accords seem to a have a life span of 40K to 120K in my browsing.

 

[robnitro]

Computers seem to just complicate things when they aren't really adding any functionality. Like, in engine management, the computer is doing something useful. The air/fuel ratio constantly changes to optimize the engine.
But, on a transmission, why is there such a big deal to have them shift ultra smooth? This seems like a feature that doesn't add to the efficiency!

Does the 99+ accord trans have 6 speeds? That extra complexity seems wasteful because in an automatic transmission, the torque converter can help the engine be flexible with 1 or 2 less ratios.

Also, I noticed in a 2002 Civic I drove, and also a 2003 Neon, where the transmission sort of matches the revs during shifting. I would think that would reduce wear, but then a clutch must be doing the work to disengage/engage this smooth action! Is this how the 99+ accord shifts?

 

[mike1qaz]

robnitro...The 6th Gen(98-02)Accord has an electronically controlled 4spd overdrive autotranny.

I don't know if they speed match during shifts, but this generation does shift smoother than previous generations. But it seems they are not as durable as the hard shifting Honda automatics of old. Having heard of the issues with this generation tranny and my meticulous maintenance using only the Honda fluids with mine, I would advise staying away from used high mileage auto Accords of this period. All other aspects of this car have been wonderful and I wouldn't hesitate buying a high mileage 5spd manual Accord.

Starting in 03 Honda went to a 5spd auto, but it's too soon to know it this one is up to the high-mileage challenge.

 

[Steve S]

The worse part is there are two kinds of trans repair shops. One, charges alot of money and the techs know the weak links and repairs the trans to not break agains .The other ,just changes the minimal parts and charges alot of money.

 

[MNgopher]

FWIW, I haven't dropped an auto tranny yet for any major repairs.

The '88 Cavaler went to 163,000 miles before being donated. The three speed auto had two fluid changes in its life, one of them when the Torque Convertor Solenoid failed (only a $200 dollar job - very simple).

My '97 F150 went to 163,000 miles when I sold it. The 4R70w 4 speed auto had its fluid serviced three times, and ran like a champ.

My '99 F150 is at 95,000 miles, and has had its fluid serviced twice, runs like a top.

Maybe I'm lucky? Or perhaps as noted above, I don't drive like an idiot either...

 

[medic]

I have a '97 F-150 4x4 with a 4r70w 3sp w/ OD. I have oversized tires and 130k miles. I have serviced this tranny twice (96k miles & 127k miles) with Aamco Mercon V & Castrol Mercon V. No flushes, I do it myself (Ford put a drain in the TC) and manage to get 12-13 quarts out of a 14 quart system. Due to the oversized tires (put on at 40k miles), the vehicle's speedometer & odometer is about 11% off, so I figure I have closer to 140k total miles on the original tranny. The only problem I ever had was the dreaded TC shutter which cleared up with the switch to mercon V.

Keep in mind that this tranny is known for problems and is one of the reasons that Ford came up with the Mercon V rating (a band-aid or quick fix for a bad design).

 

[Robbie Alexander]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cutehumor:
I'm asking because I'm curious what does everyone think? -*-*

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Not owned too many. One I had since new and did all the maintenance (mnore) and it still went out early for me in the 100+k'S,
I know several people with 200, 280, 240, 260 etc, but I don't know that many.
I want to know from those that normally get 300-400K+ from an auto...

 

[XS650]

I've had many automatics and they all went over 80k, in fact I've only had one automatic that -ever- required internal work.

My two high mileage ones were a Toyota Camry with 230,000 and a Honda Accord with 180,000. No problems, I just sold the cars to get something new.

The one automatic I did have trouble with was a 2000 Acura 3.2 TL with I think was one of the early Honda 6th gen transmissions. It develped a slight intermittant shudder when the TC went into lockup. Acura replaced it immediately when shown the problem at just over 80,000 miles. Probably because of the problems they have been having with those transmissions.

I hate to think what it would have taken to get GM to do anything under those circumstances.

 

[crashz]

quote:

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Originally posted by medic:
I have a '97 F-150 4x4 with a 4r70w 3sp w/ OD. I have oversized tires and 130k miles. I have serviced this tranny twice (96k miles & 127k miles) with Aamco Mercon V & Castrol Mercon V. No flushes, I do it myself (Ford put a drain in the TC) and manage to get 12-13 quarts out of a 14 quart system. Due to the oversized tires (put on at 40k miles), the vehicle's speedometer & odometer is about 11% off, so I figure I have closer to 140k total miles on the original tranny.

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medic - what size tires did you put on your truck? I just put on 265/75 R16s on my 150 and seems like I lost the use of overdrive. It lugs at hwy speed in OD, so I've been running it with the OD off. Did you do a gear swap? Mine is the stock 3.55s

 

[medic]

quote:

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Originally posted by crashz:

quote:

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Originally posted by medic:
I have a '97 F-150 4x4 with a 4r70w 3sp w/ OD. I have oversized tires and 130k miles. I have serviced this tranny twice (96k miles & 127k miles) with Aamco Mercon V & Castrol Mercon V. No flushes, I do it myself (Ford put a drain in the TC) and manage to get 12-13 quarts out of a 14 quart system. Due to the oversized tires (put on at 40k miles), the vehicle's speedometer & odometer is about 11% off, so I figure I have closer to 140k total miles on the original tranny.

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medic - what size tires did you put on your truck? I just put on 265/75 R16s on my 150 and seems like I lost the use of overdrive. It lugs at hwy speed in OD, so I've been running it with the OD off. Did you do a gear swap? Mine is the stock 3.55s

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265/75R16's, but I think I have 3.73 gears. I run 70 mph (63-64 mph on the speedometer) at just over 2000 rpm's. This is real close to the max torque for the engine. If I run under 55 (about 50 on the speedometer) the rpm's drop, but not enough to lug the engine. Pretty much, I don't even touch the "OD OFF" button unless I'm towing something. I think the original tires were 235/70R16's.

 

[Whimsey]

crashz, Were your previous tires P255-70-16? If so then you decreased your efffective axle ratio by about 5%. So you are now running a "5%" overdrive compared to before. To bring the "original" effective" axle ratio back with the larger tires you need to go to a 3.73 diff ratio. Since you are noticing the power loss with the new tires I assume you have the 4.6L V-8 and NOT the 5.4L V-8. To change gear ratios the cost is roughly $300-500 per axle for labor plus the cost of the gears. If you are going to change gear ratio's for these tires I would go with 4.10's. They will give you more "getup and go"., especially with the weaker 4.6 engine. And quite possibly even help your gas mileage. Or hurt it only a bit if you use your new found zoom too often around town or really speed on the highway

.

Whimsey

 

[TR3-2001SE]

Just want to report on my Toyota Cressida 1988 went 200,000 with no problems. Now at 251,000 and does slip a little. Maint was unknow before 130,000 and complete fluid change 190,000. I guess it should have received better maint but it still works. I am guessing a fluid change every 50,000 would have been in order. Flushed again at 250,000.

 

[TheJMan19]

The transmission in my 1993 Explorer went out at 58K miles. I guess the front pump seal blew which caused the transmission level to drop and the crankcaase level to rise. I think it got overheated on a trip up north, mostly uphill, which is pretty sad considering the tranny has both an in-radiator cooler and one on the outside of the radiator, too.

 

[thrace]

A few of my friends own Hondas. Unfortunately, two with '96 Accord 4spd auto had transmissions that failed at about 95,000 miles. They were not happy. They thought a Honda maintained according to the owners manual would be above average. Not.
Like the other posters have said, newer Hondas have more transmission problems than those old small 4 cylinder Hondas. Newer ones like the 99 and later 4spd auto Accord and the 5 spd auto Acura CL/TL and the 4 or 5 spd auto 1999 and later Odyssey. Even when all maintenance was done right. And to think that a trans rebuild costs $5000-$6000. Don't just blame the owner. Many of these are too new to even get their first scheduled fluid change. I feel fooled that I bought a Honda for a higher price because it was supposed to be reliable just at a time when their durability is not up to older Honda standards.

[ April 13, 2004, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: thrace ]

 

[cumminspuller]

I have a 99' Dodge 3500, Cummins Diesel coupled to the 47re Auto Tranny. The tranny had 198,000 miles on it when I had it changed for fear of going to far from home and haveing it go out. But it was still working. All the miles on the tranny were towing atleast 8,000 to 25,000lbs. I also had an EDGE EZ on the truck which added another 65 HP and 185lbs of torque. When the tranny was pulled out the torque converter showed signs of failure but the rest of the tranny looked very good.

My wife has a 92' Accord with an auto tranny that we bought with 105,000 miles on it. We had to have the tranny replaced immedietly. Previous maintenance history unknown. The truck had Amsoil front to back from day one and the car engine got the amsoil treatment as soon as we bought it and after the tranny was replaced Amsoil ATF went in.

I firmly believe what someone stated earlier. That tranny life is directly proportionate the size and weight of the right foot.

Jason

[ April 13, 2004, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: cumminspuller ]

 

[crashz]

quote:

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Originally posted by Whimsey:
crashz, Were your previous tires P255-70-16? If so then you decreased your efffective axle ratio by about 5%. So you are now running a "5%" overdrive compared to before. To bring the "original" effective" axle ratio back with the larger tires you need to go to a 3.73 diff ratio. Since you are noticing the power loss with the new tires I assume you have the 4.6L V-8 and NOT the 5.4L V-8. To change gear ratios the cost is roughly $300-500 per axle for labor plus the cost of the gears. If you are going to change gear ratio's for these tires I would go with 4.10's. They will give you more "getup and go"., especially with the weaker 4.6 engine. And quite possibly even help your gas mileage. Or hurt it only a bit if you use your new found zoom too often around town or really speed on the highway

.

Whimsey

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Thanks Whimsey!
I plan on changing to 4:10's soon. I've done a couple gear swaps on GM trucks, but this will be my first Ford job. I plan on getting the Ford motorsports gears as they are known to be the quietest. So for what it will cost me to have just one diff done at a shop, I should be able to do both.

Oh - I have the 4.2L V6, so the gears are really needed. With approximately 50ft-lbs less of torque that the 4.6L V8, the little six has a hard time keeping up.

[ April 15, 2004, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: crashz ]

 

[GimmeTorq]

quote:

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Originally posted by thrace:
I feel fooled that I bought a Honda for a higher price because it was supposed to be reliable just at a time when their durability is not up to older Honda standards.

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Well, at least Honda seems to be doing something about it...

http://www.hondanews.com/CatID1000?mid=2004041436013&mime=asc

 

[seotaji]

I own a 2000 Acura TL and I had horrible shifting problems at 30K. The dipstick was almost dry. No leakage. Fluid color was clear almost brown. The dealership charged me for a tranny flush and it did get better, prob. b/c there was fluid in it.

It's still not shifting as smooth as new, but the dealership can't find anything wrong (yeah right). I'm hoping it dies before the extended warranty runs out.

The problem I have with the situation is that the owners manual states 100K and the stealership says 30K. I'm beginning to think that it's closer to 10-20K when you are dealing with city or hilly driving.

My 95 accord went 100K+ without a flush and it's still doing great. I have since had it flushed at 110K. Still works/drives like new, have had only one problem (with the temp knob which was repaired under warranty) and no others. Such a nice reliable car.

I will never buy another honda product.

[ April 16, 2004, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: seotaji ]

 

[ekpolk]

Seotaji:

Remember that the dealers often don't make much, if any, money on wty repairs, and will in some marginal cases, deny that there's a problem at all. Hey, your car still drives, right? Yeah, right. I'd recommend taking it to a good independent shop for an evaluation that you know is not tainted by the personal interest of the person/organization performing the eval.