New Mobil Clean 5000 VOA

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wyandot

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I had a 1/2 quart of Mobil Clean 5000 5w-30 left over from the last oil change in my wife's Impala, so I thought I'd send in a VOA. (UOA on that sample was flagged for high sodium. Read other Clean 5000 VOA post for details.)

Iron: 1
Chromium: 0
Lead: 0
Copper: 0
Tin: 2
Aluminum: 2
Nickel: 0
Silver: 0
Silcon: 5
Boron: 90
Sodium: 264
Potassium: 3
Magnesium: 19
Calcium: 2141
Phosphorus: 892
Zinc: 975
Molybdenum: 156
40c cST: 62.9
100c cST: 10.6

Predictive Maintenance Services comments: "Sodium appears high and does not match our baseline for this oil. Suggest you contact AV Lubricants."
 
Na is an additive of this oil, AV Lubes needs to recheck their equipment and baseline for this oil.

[ November 23, 2005, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
can too high a level of this Na being used as an additive (IF it is being used as an add) cause any internal problems OTHER than false reads of coolant leaks???????????????????????????
 
grbr95 NO! Why are you so worried about this? XOM is a great formulator and would not use any additive that can harm you car. It's perfectly safe to use. Use Blackstone Labs and have Terry look at your report as they are both aware of this formulation. When using this oil, and if having a UOA done, just remember it contains about 250ppm of Na, thats all.

[ November 23, 2005, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
Paging George from AVlube
tongue.gif
 
quote:
can too high a level of this Na being used as an additive (IF it is being used as an add) cause any internal problems OTHER than false reads of coolant leaks???????????????????????????
Click to expand...
Terry already answered you in a previous post on this, so please drop the subject. Also perform on a search on this, we have been talking about it since Mobil 5000/Exxon Superflow SM/GF4 came out. -Joe
 
Buster: the same equipment was used for both Mobil 5000 tests... Along with many, many other baselines for this oil. The sample from our most recent random 5000 bottle produced 0 sodium, just like all previous virgin samples for this oil. This sample results, sodium through the roof and it is real, similar to the other test results by other labs for this quart. I have no explanation for this variance other than the sample bottle appears to have been contaminated, somehow, some way. As I have previously indicated, we have run literally thousands of used oil analysis with 5000 and have not seen the level of sodium this sample reported in USED oil except where glycol contamination did occur..
George Morrison, STLE CLS
 
George, with all due respect, let me ask you this. How do you explain that 2 Labs, Blackstone and Butler and every UOA thus far have all shown Na of 200+ppm? Also, how do you account for Mobil telling me it does contain Na?

Can you contact Mobil's techline and ask them? I would think they would tell you being you are a distributor and run an oil analysis company. If XOM does not share this information with you, thats ridiculous. ChevronTexaco told me that their oils contain 490ppm of Molybdenum. Big deal. Mobil SHOULD share this information so many people don't think they have an engine problem!
 
Buster,
in a previous post I indicated that I had talked with Lucile, senior lube engineer and she in fact indicated that she had no knowledge of that level sodium contained in Mobil 5000 formulation..
And as I also indicated in a previous post on the thread that was stopped, I too have 2 independent labs which indicate low/no sodium...
ALSO, Buster, I indicated that our lab DID indeed return high NA for the sample that indicated high sodium in the other two labs. Thus I CAN account for our lab results.. However, I cannot account for the source of 5000 which has the high sodium.
I review 100+ oil analysis results a day for fleets using Mobil 5000 in their company vehicles.. Results which all indicate low/no sodium except where glycol contamination exists..
As I indicated I have no answer for why some samples of Mobil 5000 have low/no sodium while others apparently do or were contaminated in the bottling process.. Murphy DOES exist in lube plants at times...
George Morrison
 
someone is out of the loop here. you either have mobil contaminating their dinos with Na, or you have mobil not informing their distributors of the NA additive in their formula, or you have their Sr. Lube engineer not knowing that NA is in their oil. This isn't a good sign.
 
Cutehumor: wait a minute... We DO have two dissimilar results... We have the same lab reporting samples WITH high sodium and other samples with NO sodium... So, no one is out of the loop here. We have discrepencies which are at this point unexplained but the story continues.. We will capture additional samples to determine if the high sodium was an anomoly or real. Mobil's contention is that no Mobil engine oils contain sodium above instrument noise level.. We all agree that samples have reported 200+ levels of sodium and that others have reported 0 levels of sodium. Cutehumor can you please explain "out of the loop" as it relates to this unexplained discrepancy? Moreover we need to get the bar code for the sample bottles which reported high sodium as these are not additives which should be in the normal Mobil Clean matrix. Period..... It is that simple. No loop involved.
George Morrison STLE CLS
AV Lubricants Inc.
Columbus, Ohio
614-492-2000
 
Here are the two codes printed on the lower back side of the quart bottle I used for the VOA: 97Y891T3015016 & just below that P050721C
 
Thank you for the bar coding Wyandot. I will begin the process on this end to go back to the original batch.... Ongoing....
George Morrison
 
The answer to the sodium is easy. Different labs have noticed 200 ppm+ levels of sodium, and the same labs have noticed no/low levels of sodium. So there is a QC problem. On to the answer....

As George pointed out, Murphy does visit oil manufacturers. Or, more simply, one of the workers on the line decided to pour a little salt in the oil prior to packaging. This could be because they are a disgruntled employee, or they smoked some dope at lunch and wanted a good laugh. Or it could just be a fluke in the plant. Either way, I think a good oil analyzer would be able to determine whether increased sodium in my UOA was from a coolant leak or virgin oil. So to me, with what experts have said, it is a moot point.

Anyways, whatever the reason, I have no reason to doubt that some samples had 200+ppm sodium, while others didn't. Just a freak of life. I don't think it is going to kill my car, either way. My car doesn't have hypertension, so a little sodium is not a bad thing.

More knowledgeable people than me have said they would run this oil in their car with no reservations. I trust their judgement. However, I just haven't switched to it because Castrol GTX is still cheaper. And either way, with what I've read about VSOT, I'd add it to both oils for my '97 Maxima. Just added some today and immediately noticed a 10hp increase on my highly calibrated butt-dyno
smile.gif
(Just kidding on that last point).

Even with all that said, these differing results have piqued my interest. Is it a manufacturing QC problem, a lab QC problem, different crude from different locales problem, or just human error? The sage continues....

I'll stay tuned in.

Dave
 
More Mobil Clean samples are in process for analysis as I write this.... Yes, continued....... We will continue posting those results and progress with yardmarks to determine the source of the reported sodium..
George Morrison, STLE CLS
 
GeorgeCLS, I have a Mobil 7500 UOA with a reading of 225 ppm of sodium from 7/16/05 and another but I cannot find it in my "database". Is the 5000 a different chemistry and from what I have read, the 7500 should not have the sodium?
With the high sodium came lead wear at 650 ppm and 232 ppm respectively on the 2 different UOA's. On GC the lead is minimal.
Most curious
GregH
 
George,

As Buster indicated every UOA accomplished on this oil has shown Na of 200+ppm. This trend has been noticed ever since Mobil 5000 hit the market.

First VOA accomplished on this oil detected high Na levels.
Mobil 5000 VOA--Feb 05


I suggest a formal letter (email) be drafted and sent to Mobil to inquire about this concern. As AV Lubricants is a major distributor of their products, I'm certain Mobil would immediately want to address your concerns.
 
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