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#47542 - 10/06/03 10:00 PM Re: The LS1 oil-consumption problem...
Chris B. Offline


Registered: 03/16/03
Posts: 2854
Loc: Colorado
quote:
Originally posted by userfriendly:
Chris B;
If you want quiet, buy a car with an engine that has cast pistons and a lame valvetrain.
People used to complain about timing chain buzzing noise.
So what did the manufactures do? Install nylon gears instead of steel rollers.
People complained about mechanical lifters snapping away, so we got hydraulic lifters from the big three.
Forged pistons knock. High pressure valve springs cause the lifters to bleed down a at low RPM and as a result they click a little just like the mechanical ones used to.
Tubular exhaust systems ring.
In the end you have an engine that buzzes, knocks, rings, and clicks.
solution: Turn the music up.
Why do you want to switch to a synthetic engine oil when the 10W30 Havoline is doing so well?
Maybe try a group III 5W40 without the esters like Texaco's offering in another few thousand miles. The loose fit pistons, ring design, and PAO ester blends, just might be a bad combo. [I dont know]
edit...Judd; A mid 12 is about all you will get with 3/8 fuel line.

I never said I want a quiet car. I'm more concerned with long term durability. Piston slap and knocking noises mean metal to metal contact and that could mean the engine is "beating itself apart" If I new my car was going to last 200,000+ miles I would not care one bit about the knocking noise. My dealer said there was a problem with my engine and did the rebuild with out me really even having to ask for it. In fact I love loud engines, I think it sounds powerfull.
As for the Halvoline, Terry Dyson who knows more about oil then anyone on this board told me it was a great break in oil and to use it to break in the rebuilt LS1. I was told to put back in Mobil 1 10w30 after 3,500 miles using the Halvoline conventional 10w30. I'm going to do that as soon as I'm done running the Halvoline. I feel after being educated on this board that a good Synthetic is best for an engine. If my LS1 starts to burn the M1 I'll just try another oil till I find which works best. I would never use a conventional oil as I don't want any varnish/build up over time and conventional oils seem to shear out of grade to fast. I'm confinent in Mobil 1 because of what Terry has talked with me about.

I truly love this car and will keep it as long as I'm alive and well. I still feel it is the best car dollar for dollar and has tons of character. [Patriot]

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#47543 - 10/07/03 12:17 AM Re: The LS1 oil-consumption problem...
Kirk Offline


Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 10
Loc: Nashville tn.
I have a LS1 also. It's a 2000 TA ram air 6spd. I bought it in 2001 with 9,500 mi. The piston slap and oil consumption was horrible. I went to my local Pontiac dealer, they looked at me like I was from outter space. I started reading LS1.com and found it was common and could be helped with oil selection. I changed to M1 10W30, no change. I switched to Royal Purple R41, no change. I changed to 10W30 Royal Purple no change. I gave up for a while. If I run it easy the oil consumption is better but the cold start pistion slap is there.
Fast forward one year the car now has 30,000mi. two months ago I put in Schaeffer's 7000 10W30. Piston slap GONE, oil consumption GONE. Is it a miricle? no. Is it the best oil in the world? No. It is working in the LS1 verry well. Viscosity and additives package are helping the problem.
I will be doing UOA at about 3,500mi and give a full report.

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#47544 - 10/07/03 02:31 AM Re: The LS1 oil-consumption problem...
Chris B. Offline


Registered: 03/16/03
Posts: 2854
Loc: Colorado
Kirk, what did your piston slap sound like? Did it sound like a diesel at all? Maybe I'll try the Schaeffers after a few more runs with the Mobil 1 if my UOA's don't show well.

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#47545 - 10/07/03 03:22 AM Re: The LS1 oil-consumption problem...
Last_Z Offline


Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 2790
Loc: San Antonio, TX
quote:
yet they praise a 32K dollar 350Z that would get it's butt waxed by the F-Body at a dragstrip and most likely a road course.
Judd, you couldn't be any righter!


Userfriendly,
I didn't really have a "Top Fuel" cam in my car, but it was pretty big @230/236, 510/520, 110LSA....in a TPI [Freak]


Kirk and Chris,
I'll be trying the GC next interval. Right now I'm running 350ml of #132, 1 qrt of 15W-50 and the rest of 10W-30. We'll see what the UOA report shows.
Rick

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#47546 - 10/07/03 03:41 AM Re: The LS1 oil-consumption problem...
badnews Offline


Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 848
Loc: Ohio
Sounds like a lot of people are saying "this hurts, but if you do it this way it will only hurt a little"----- Avoid GM products till they can do it right.

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#47547 - 10/07/03 04:10 AM Re: The LS1 oil-consumption problem...
Scali62 Offline


Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 236
Loc: Oceanside NY
What's the bottom line as far as longevity of these LS-1 engines go with these knock & oil consumption issues ?
I mean are they blowing up @ 45k miles or is it common for well taken care of engines to go over 100K, something SB chevys of the past that got 15 mpg's did easily?
Fascinating thread.

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#47548 - 10/07/03 04:14 AM Re: The LS1 oil-consumption problem...
3 Mad Ponchos Offline


Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 688
Loc: Morgantown, WV
Yea but it's not that simple, badnews. They still offered something no one else on the market could deliver: 300 rwhp for $25k.

As far as longevity goes, I'm not familiar with any problems there. They seem to hold up. Drivetrain longevity has never been a problem in my GM vehicles. It's always other crap like switches, plastics, and paint. [Mad]

Cheers, 3MP

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#47549 - 10/07/03 04:30 AM Re: The LS1 oil-consumption problem...
Andrew Offline


Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 131
Loc: Sydney
As far as I know, there is no mystery to the engine problems with the LS1. The piston slap and oil consumption issues are often due to:

a) overbored block
b) hypereutectic pistons with short skirt

The factory fill for these engines is 10W-30 and so some purchasers find that a mild problem can be improved by increasing oil viscosity.

Holden Australia will rebuild an engine if it consumes excess oil but generally they rebuild it with the same factory hypereutectic pistons. Obviously, this does not fix the problem because the overbore remains the same.

It has been suggested that if someone really wants to rid themselves of the problem, they rebuild the engine properly and make sure the piston clearances are tight in the overbored cylinders.

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#47550 - 10/07/03 05:09 AM Re: The LS1 oil-consumption problem...
Patman Offline



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 19194
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
Even with all the complaints of piston slap and oil consumption, these engines are still durable. The only LS1 guys I know (and believe me, I know a LOT!) who have needed engine rebuilds are those guys who have gone to stroker motors, or those who have put in more radical cams/heads. So these guys did not have LS1's built by the factory anymore, but aftermarket tuner built engines. Or guys who have put on turbos, superchargers or nitrous will often blow up motors too (but obviously this is no fault of GM's design when the engine lets go!)

As far as stock engines or those with just mild work done to them, I don't know of anyone who has needed a rebuild yet. Keep in mind these engines are also still relatively new, only having been out in the Corvette since the 1997 model year, and in the f-body since 1998. So it hasn't given many people the opportunity to put tons of miles on them yet, although I do know of quite a few over 100k, and I know of one guy on the Corvette forum with a 99 C5 who is almost at 300k now (although he drives all highway)

[ October 07, 2003, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

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#47551 - 10/07/03 05:13 AM Re: The LS1 oil-consumption problem...
Ryan00TJ Offline


Registered: 07/08/02
Posts: 742
Loc: Lake Anna, VA
The LS1 is very amazing! My 02 SS burns no oil and believe me she is run very hard and I also have no piston slap, knocks or sounds. I am running Schaeffer #703 10W-30 blend and a Extended Wix oil filter. Yesterday after another LS1 edit tune my car made 399 rwhp @ 386 rwtq with a cam, headers and a few bolt on mods on stock factory heads! Name another engine that can do that without going a forced induction route. My SS was built in June 2002 and was filled with Mobil 1 as the day I got it home smelled the oil and it was just like new Mobil 1 out of a bottle.

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#47552 - 10/07/03 11:11 AM Re: The LS1 oil-consumption problem...
Judd Offline


Registered: 08/20/02
Posts: 132
Loc: Ga.
quote:
Originally posted by userfriendly:
edit...Judd; A mid 12 is about all you will get with 3/8 fuel line. [/QB]

Naaaa, 3/8s should at least get me to the mid 11s if not the low 11s/high10s. I already have enough mph to do high 11s if I could pull a good 60 foot {1.60 or so}.

As far as the mileage most LS1s seems to go, the piston slap and oil consumption that some folks tend to see does not seem to prevent the motors from lasting. I have seen several high mileage LS1s that are doing fine. Matter of fact, they are still running good at the strip.

I think that alot of the piston slap/problems are internet influenced,,,sorta like sugar pills in reverse. [Wink] I know alot of folks with LS1s and I have not met one that has the piston slap nor excessive oil consumption {over 2 qrts in 3K miles}. I have seen alot of paint problems with the SLP cars and busted 10 bolt axles though. [Frown]

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#47553 - 10/07/03 11:31 AM Re: The LS1 oil-consumption problem...
Doug Hillary Online   content


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 4788
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi,
for what its worth, in Australia some serious independent research has shown:

a) a move to a 5w/15w-50 synthetic substantially reduces the oil consumption issue. SDo much so that it is viewd by some as the "ideal" fix

b) long term durability ( see Andrew's knowledgeable post above )is a question mark
but some are robust and operate "normally"

c) most engine "failures" here have apparently been caused by low oil levels and lack of oil to pump ( caused by excessive oil consumption and some lazy drivers who do not monitor oil use )

d) excessive oil consumption appears to be a case by case issue as some engines are OK and others are a disaster. GM-Holden appear to treat warranty issues this way too

Regards

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#47554 - 10/07/03 11:58 AM Re: The LS1 oil-consumption problem...
sprintman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 10984
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
Doug dealers here are outsourcing LS1 motors for rebuild to A local engine shop whose owner is in my kart club. Told me when requested they 'select fit' pistons to each bore but a time consuming business so higher cost. No wonder Ford is kicking *** with their new models particularly XR6 Turbo and GTP.

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#47555 - 10/07/03 12:57 PM Re: The LS1 oil-consumption problem...
Doug Hillary Online   content


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 4788
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi,
Sprintman - good to see Fraud kicking GM's Butt.
Roll on Bathurst

I was told by a "good source" the some of the engine's problem relate to ovality in certain bores. This would teld perhaps to bear out your info.

The use of M1 5w-50 certainly substantially reduced oil consumption in engines that were otherwise sound

GM like Castrol have not come clean with the motoring public here have they

Detroit Diesel had a turbo problem here too - told nobody of course until a few suddden engine fires raised suspicions. Then, quick recalls on certain trucks - tanker's, LPG & expolosives carriers - I wonder why?

We live in interesting times

Regards

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#47556 - 10/07/03 02:05 PM Re: The LS1 oil-consumption problem...
Kirk Offline


Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 10
Loc: Nashville tn.
Chris B.
My piston slap was when the motor was cold. Like starting a cold diesel, knocking slightly above idol rpm. It would quit after it was about halfway
warmed up.

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