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#374869 - 01/06/04 02:21 AM Re: Goodbye 2nd Amendment
Bob Woods Offline


Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1342
Loc: North of Dallas Texas
I would think that Iraq's history proves that gun ownership will not stop a dirtbag from gaining power. Iraq has been one of the most armed nation in the world. Gunowner rights are given to use by the constitution are will be hard to take away. But its a great knee jerk cause to take attention away from the problem of PC and other crap that will undermine the other freedoms in the bill of rights. Also think about this, The NRA has the largest data base of gun owners, even larger than the Governments. We don't worry about our cars and trucks, and airplanes, (FAA has a online data base that allows anyone to enter the "N" number and find out who owns it) being taken away yet we register them yearly, we gladly fill our product registration cards and mail them in. We leave our electronic thumbprints all over the internet for who knows whom to use as they wish. There are alot of well paid people (lobbyists are expensive) that make a good living out of scaring gunowners into thinking there rights and priviledges are in danger.

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#374870 - 01/06/04 02:33 AM Re: Goodbye 2nd Amendment
Al Offline


Registered: 06/08/02
Posts: 13581
Loc: Elizabethtown, Pa
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Woods:
I would think that Iraq's history proves that gun ownership will not stop a dirtbag from gaining power. Iraq has been one of the most armed nation in the world. Gunowner rights are given to use by the constitution are will be hard to take away. But its a great knee jerk cause to take attention away from the problem of PC and other crap that will undermine the other freedoms in the bill of rights. Also think about this, The NRA has the largest data base of gun owners, even larger than the Governments.

There are alot of well paid people (lobbyists are expensive) that make a good living out of scaring gunowners into thinking there rights and
priviledges are in danger.
.

You are 100% Correct Sir. I am 58 years old and the fear mongers have beating this drum as long as I can remember. And the number of guns has doubled in the U.S. in the last 15 years [LOL!] [LOL!]

This, on the other hand is something to worry about [Frown]
Dollar Plunges

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#374871 - 01/06/04 02:38 AM Re: Goodbye 2nd Amendment
MillerMan Offline


Registered: 09/17/03
Posts: 285
Loc: Minn/Wis
they declared war on drugs and can declare war on guns the same way, it's a illegal object, they can put ya away, take your house and car.

it maybe coming

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#374872 - 01/06/04 03:13 AM Re: Goodbye 2nd Amendment
Drew99GT Offline


Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 20743
Loc: Colorado Springs
Did anyone catch that episode of American Shooter (fairly lame TV show [LOL!] ) that profiled the guy who invented reloading presses? In a nutshell, he had a few electronic/hydraulically mounted mini guns, and some anti-aircraft battery that had like 6 fifty caliber machine guns. He's not the only private citizen in the US that literally has a legally owned weapons cache. I'd hate to be the ATF agents that come to confiscate the BIG GUNS!!

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#374873 - 01/06/04 03:15 AM Re: Goodbye 2nd Amendment
Drew99GT Offline


Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 20743
Loc: Colorado Springs
quote:
Originally posted by Al:
[QUOTE]

This, on the other hand is something to worry about [Frown]
Dollar Plunges

That, and gold hitting a 15 year high, along with other precious metals/infaltionary hegdes. Seems commodities markets are expecting a bout of high interest rates and inflation possibly?

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#374874 - 01/06/04 03:33 AM Re: Goodbye 2nd Amendment
tweeker43 Offline


Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 1253
Loc: michigan
that is such a scary analogy. i've had similar thoughts myself. if you were married and got arrested for some minor drug offence your family could lose everything. connect this with overzealous enforcement (like the cases in texas and california) and we could be in deep stuff.

just to throw one other illegal act in there:
sex - you can give it away, but you can't sell it.

quote:
Originally posted by MillerMan:
they declared war on drugs and can declare war on guns the same way, it's a illegal object, they can put ya away, take your house and car.

it maybe coming


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#374875 - 01/06/04 05:29 AM Re: Goodbye 2nd Amendment
Al Offline


Registered: 06/08/02
Posts: 13581
Loc: Elizabethtown, Pa
quote:
Originally posted by MillerMan:
they declared war on drugs and can declare war on guns the same way, it's a illegal object, they can put ya away, take your house and car.

it maybe coming

Well, last time I checked-drug posession wasn't protected by the U.S. Constitution [Smile] [Smile]

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#374876 - 01/06/04 05:37 AM Re: Goodbye 2nd Amendment
MillerMan Offline


Registered: 09/17/03
Posts: 285
Loc: Minn/Wis
they kick down your door for drugs, and they already have kicked down peoples doors for guns, and these people were not drug dealers or criminals

the same principle applies [Thumbs Down!]

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#374877 - 01/06/04 05:48 AM Re: Goodbye 2nd Amendment
tweeker43 Offline


Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 1253
Loc: michigan
no, but from a libertarian point of view drug possession is not prohibited either. [Smile]

prohibition didn't work, the war on drugs won't work, and trying to ban guns won't work either.

when my dad (democrat, btw) was k-8 principal he brought in the local dnr officer once a year to teach hunter safety.

i am opposed to gun control, but i'm all for gun education. they'd certainly be more practical self defense if people were confident in how to use them.

i personally don't have one, but i've been hunting and shooting in the past. if someone broke into my house and i were asleep, they could probably get about 4 shots off before i woke up.

[/qb][/QUOTE]Well, last time I checked-drug posession wasn't protected by the U.S. Constitution [Smile] [Smile] [/QB][/QUOTE]

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#374878 - 01/06/04 06:03 AM Re: Goodbye 2nd Amendment
MillerMan Offline


Registered: 09/17/03
Posts: 285
Loc: Minn/Wis
I am not for legalizing drugs, except for MAYBE weed.

but what is going on in this country is not right.
taking a nobody that never hurt anybody and putting them away for years is wrong.

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#374879 - 01/06/04 08:31 AM Re: Goodbye 2nd Amendment
Bob Woods Offline


Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1342
Loc: North of Dallas Texas
"taking a nobody that never hurt anybody and putting them away for years is wrong."

Thats not near as bad as "letting a somebody get away with murder". We are losing the war on drugs, I say decriminalize it. Make it a felony to commit a crime, any crime using a firearm. The mandatory drug sentencing rules suck, as do any mandatory sentening rules.

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#374880 - 01/06/04 09:02 AM Re: Goodbye 2nd Amendment
MRC01 Offline


Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 606
Loc: 98245
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Woods:
"taking a nobody that never hurt anybody and putting them away for years is wrong."

Thats not near as bad as "letting a somebody get away with murder".

You think it's worse to let a guilty man go free, than to punish an innocent? Did I read that correctly? That runs counter to the tradition of law as we know it. In fact, Blackstone so famously said it was actually better to let 10 guilty men go free than to punish one innocent. Our entire criminal justice system is based on this principle.

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#374881 - 01/06/04 09:20 AM Re: Goodbye 2nd Amendment
MillerMan Offline


Registered: 09/17/03
Posts: 285
Loc: Minn/Wis
prison/jail is big business these days $$$$$$$$$$$$ prison doesn't really work
I am against mandatory sentences too

But I am not sticking up for murders,rapest, child molestors or repeat violent criminals, these people should never get out.

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#374882 - 01/06/04 10:27 AM Re: Goodbye 2nd Amendment
Dan4510 Offline


Registered: 05/19/03
Posts: 2363
Loc: Texas
BTW, if the 2nd amendment ever goes, the rest of the bill of rights will be down the tubes. It is the essential right that must be protected or none of the others matter.

At the base of the drug war is the war on private property rights. Before the drug war, property was only subject to forfieture after long, costly proceedings. Now, if a cop feels like it, he can empty your wallet or take your car and you have no recourse. ANYONE can at ANYTIME be arrested on a charge that allows forfieture.

Any number of crimes now kick in the asset forfieture provisions. Legislators love asset forfieture, it adds money to the public purse at litte or no cost.

For example, in Louisiana, the judge, prosector, and the police that take your property divide it up, and the judge that gets a cut decides if it is illegal or not. By definition, it is bad to let the lion guard the sheep....Human nature comes out.

One of the greatest travesties is that right now, the federal government operates a casino it took and operates it at a loss using tax money!

if you really want to get paranoid, look at www.fear.org

Dan

[ January 07, 2004, 02:32 AM: Message edited by: Dan4510 ]

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#374883 - 01/06/04 11:01 AM Re: Goodbye 2nd Amendment
MillerMan Offline


Registered: 09/17/03
Posts: 285
Loc: Minn/Wis
and the right was a big part of starting this, it was both parties, but Bush Sr. really got the ball rolling.

Bush Sr. was very much for gun control, people blame clinton, but Bush Sr. was maybe even worse

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