Champion Labs Defends "Clicker" Bypass Valve...

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From their technical service desk which (BTW) continues to respond to questions within a matter of minutes...

"The new "Clicker" type by-pass valve offers a more positive pressure
release. This valve is designed to remain closed until a predetermined
amount of differential pressure is built up in the filter, then open. The
spring valve concept may begin to open at a lower setting allowing oil to
by-pass the media. The clicker style allows the filter to operate at its
maximum performance levels."
 
That's an interesting reply, csandste. I'm not sure I agree with their reasoning. If an oil filter has a spring-type bypass valve setting of 15 psi then increasing pressure will build up across the filter till the pressure-drop is 15 psi then level off. Oil pressure downstream of the filter will be steady.

With a poppet-valve, increasing oil pressure will build till the poppet-valve opens, then the valve will oscillate over a certain range of pressures, and finally open and stay open if oil pressure is really strong. The range of pressures where the poppet-valve oscillates introduces varying pressures at the oscillation frequency. I don't know if this is bad.
 
Hmmm...their response makes some sense. It's like comparing analog and digital. A coil spring bypass set for 15 psi may begin to open at a lower pressure, but be fully open at 15 psi. This is analog. The clicker valve set for 15 psi should stay closed until 15 psi and then it's fully open. It's either open or closed, no in between. That's digital.

Now, as to which is better...?
 
This clicker valve could be the start of something good. Imagine a transducer on the end of the oil filter that would pick up the "click" of the bypass opening, and this shines a light on the dash to let you know.

I would love to know when the bypass is opening.

You heard it here first on BITOG.
grin.gif



Dave
 
We've been through this before. It's a cost cutting measure, nothing more. If it's so special, then why do they still use the spring type in the high end Mobil 1 and K&N filters?

The clicker type is an on/off switch (non filtered/filtered), whereas the spring will gradually open and still allow some filtration depending on the pressure.
 
Time to wire the dangling/wrapped/insulated engine knock sensor to the clicker type oil filter.
 
quote:

Originally posted by JPowers:
We've been through this before. It's a cost cutting measure, nothing more. If it's so special, then why do they still use the spring type in the high end Mobil 1 and K&N filters?

The clicker type is an on/off switch (non filtered/filtered), whereas the spring will gradually open and still allow some filtration depending on the pressure.


You make the assumption that K&N is great, I am not to impressed with them, they are ok, but a far cry from the best out there. JMO
 
So, what would be the "best" out there? And based on what?
I'm not defending K&N ( I use Napa Gold or Purolator) just curious about what you're thinking makes something the "best".
 
quote:

Originally posted by badnews:
You make the assumption that K&N is great, I am not to impressed with them, they are ok, but a far cry from the best out there. JMO

In terms of filtration capability, they are definitely not the best. Their main selling point is flow. You may not know this, but K&N and Mobil 1 are made by the same company (Champion Labs) that make the Bosch, STP, etc. My point was that these are the top of the line filters made by that company and both use the spring type bypass.
 
I've been thinking about Champion's new clicker bypass for some time. Although it may or may not work well, I'm not particularly impressed by it. Like JPowers, I'm convinced that it's purely a cost-cutting measure since a stamped sheet metal spring is most certainly less expensive than a proven, spot welded, multi-component plunger valve with coil spring. The only advantage I can see is folks' comments about potentially adding electronic bypass detection at some point.

From my occupation I know that "water hammer" within a fire sprinkler system (or ANY plumbing system for that matter) should always be avoided by opening and closing valves s-l-o-w-l-y. And evidently "pulse fatigue" is a very real problem for oil filters as well, mainly during cold starts when oil is thick, and also during throttle jabs. Baldwin advertises that their "heavy duty steel housing provides unequaled burst and pulse-withstanding strength." K&N mentions that their "inner core provides extra structural support to prevent filter collapse." And Mobil 1's filter website mentions "...it has outperformed conventional filters three to one when tested under repeated cycles of pressure impulses." So how does Champion address the pulse issue? By introducing a full-on/full-off bypass valve!!! I suspect a good marketing name for their new valve would be the "Pulsemaster 5000"...."Guaranteed to unroll the baseplate seam within 3,000 miles or your money back." Exactly how is a coil spring's slow opening/closing of the bypass valve a bad thing? I figure Champion's marketing department is doing their best to make lemonade out of cost-cutting lemons.

Also, I suspect folks might misunderstand how the new valve works. Most posts I've seen talk about the cartridge end cap flexing and therefore flowing. I believe that oil forces itself between the cap and flat spring, forcing them apart, eventually causing the flat spring to "click" away from the end cap. If so, this might possibly introduce a higher level of metal fatigue which isn't so pronounced with a coil spring, possibly affecting the clicker valve's operating range over time...? (Imagine bending an empty Coke can back-and-forth until it finally snaps in two.) One potential advantage of the clicker valve is that due to its simple design, it can't seat incorrectly, while a few people have managed to get Fram's coil spring valves (and only Fram's) to stick open while manipulating the cut-open, orange pieces of junk. (For that matter, older Fram medias would sometimes perforate where the pleats meet the inner tube's inlet holes, further demonstrating the ramifications of pulsation.)

As for the "best" filter? In my opinion, to start with, look for one with a proven coil spring bypass valve, combined with a large media area, as well as fine (10 micron) filtration. The Wix variants and Baldwins fit this description, although I just bought some oversized PureOnes as well.

Here's some excellent nudie photos revealing the clicker valve's modus operandi: http://www.members.aol.com/phundotcom/oil.htm

[ November 12, 2003, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: TC ]
 
So, if the "clicker" style is not any good and Champion makes so many different brands, Bosch, STP, etc, which filter should be used?

It seems like this is a constant issue and question, and just as soon as someone here does some great testing, the manufacturers change their filters and we start all over again.

So, this brings me to a few questions.

1. Which filters do not use the "Clicker Style"?
2. Of the one that don't, which ones ude metal end caps? Not Fram!
3. Which one is the best OTS filter?
 
What would constitute the "perfect" by-pass valve?

I'd say a valve that remains fully shut as the pressure drop across the media rises (no filter by-pass). When the pressure drop rises to the preset limit, the by-pass valve would open just enough to regulate the pressure drop across the media to maintain it at the preset limit (for maximum filtration).

I believe a properly designed spring-loaded valve can approach this performance. I'm not so sure about the "clicker" type valve. What type of hystersis does it have (pressure to open / pressure on closing)?
 
I'm with Rick. On the other hand I have a feeling that if you use the proper visc. oil and change it often enough, the bypass valve will not come into play.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Rick in PA:
What would constitute the "perfect" by-pass valve?

I'd say a valve that remains fully shut as the pressure drop across the media rises (no filter by-pass). When the pressure drop rises to the preset limit, the by-pass valve would open just enough to regulate the pressure drop across the media to maintain it at the preset limit (for maximum filtration).

I believe a properly designed spring-loaded valve can approach this performance. I'm not so sure about the "clicker" type valve. What type of hystersis does it have (pressure to open / pressure on closing)?


I agree. I do not like the either on/off clicker valve. I much prefer to have just enough bypass to keep the flow and pressure up, while still filtering as much oil as I can.

With the "Clicker" style, you will get more bypassing that you want to, unless the only thing you are concerned about is flow.

I had been using the Bosch Prem, but now think I will switch to Napa Gold. They are about the same price and I believe that they still have a spring in them.

Any other quality OTS filters still have springs in them with good valve seats?
 
I reread my earlier post and see that it essentially trashes the clicker valves, but in fact, nobody's really proven they don't work well at this point. Just one person's opinion goin' on.

Bypass actually occurs often, even in a new filter, such as starts in cold weather when oil is thick, throttle jabs, high-RPM operation, and of course, with eventually clogged filters. So by the time you change a filter, it's bypass valve has probably had a good workout. Since some bypass valves (Fram's, specifically) flow only about 3 gpm, I'd be curious what the cumulative area of the clicker's six holes is when compared to other brands' single plunger holes. (You can verify clicker valve filters by the six barely noticable circles at the far cap when looking inside the cartridge.) If you see a coil spring in there, it's the traditional design, which Mobil 1's and some other Champions still use. But supposedly Champion's moving all they're filters to clicker over time. The clicker valves are patented and used exclusively in Champion-made brands -- all other common brands use coil spring valves. Frams and some Purolators use cardboard end caps, as well as a few foreign-sourced brands.

[ November 13, 2003, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: TC ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by TC:

As for the "best" filter? In my opinion, to start with, look for one with a proven coil spring bypass valve, combined with a large media area, as well as fine (10 micron) filtration. The Wix variants and Baldwins fit this description, although I just bought some


Since you include Baldwin filters, would this mean that you also like the Hastings Premium (no cassite) oil filter. I have been told that Baldwin/Hastings are the same thing? I really like the hastings, and I get a great price locally.
 
I don't care for the Hastings since their media is made from dried corn cobs, and I have serious questions about the quality of that stuff. (HA!) Actually, I know little about them. But others should be able to answer that, and these boards most certainly address the Hastings vrs Baldwin question through a search. The Baldwins with the "Microlite" media have a fiberglass/cellulose blend rated at 8 micron nominal, 23 micron absolute, and are all-around "12 micron" (from a different e-mail from Baldwin). Whichever number you pick, this is good filtration. If Hastings uses an identical media and about the same area, you're good-to-go. Baldwin is good about answering e-mail questions such as media area queries, and perhaps Hastings is as well.
 
Ok,

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this or not...

It seems to be that the "clicker" sytle by-pass valve was done purely out of a cost saving frame of mind.

It also seems to me that the car manufacturer probably designed their oil system with a bleeding effect in mind.

That is to say that if the coil spring type by-pass filter was considered with the inital engine design, that the engineers might have wanted a gradual by-passing of the oil during engine operation.

With the Honda VTEC engines with would make sense. The filter is supposed to be by-passing when you are in the upper RPMs. (Because you need higher oil pressure when operating the engine at 7500 RPM in VTEC mode...)

What about that angle?

Gerhard
 
I have to agree with the previous posters that vote yes on the coil spring actuated/controlled bypass valves.
1. gradual activation/deactivation- eliminates pulsation- back in school (Chemical Engineering,) we watched how the pressure in a flask showed extreme fluctuation when internal pressure was increased and then a pop-off valve suddenly opened up to atm pressure...sudden swings in pressure will eventually cause stress somewhere-could be the filter, but could be elswhere also..
2. only as much bypass as required at the moment.
3. could still be connected to a contact switch connection to signal bypass activation (even slight opening would be detected however) if desired.

All filters or filter mounts have to have a bypass to handle cold starts-cold thick oil/high rpm flows as stated above, I personally think the clicker valve is a cost cutter (I use the ST filters that don't have a bypass on my Chevy trucks, but use Motorcraft on my Nissan truck because it does have a bypass in the filter), the digital world is a good idea for lots of things but I have to stay with old fashioned physics/mechanics on this one.
 
I believe that infinite/analog regulation of the pressure is much more desirable. A "positive pressure release" is foolish. A properly designed spring system will provide adequate seating, bypass closure, and accurate release pressure.

My estimation is that clicker spring will not have a repeatable pop-off pressure as a conventional spring would. Typically you use diaphram-style spring members where there are space or cost limitations...

The statement, "The spring valve concept may begin to open at a lower setting allowing oil to by-pass the media." is complete garbage in my opinion.
 
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