2013 WRX, Pennzoil Ultra 5w30, 4,547 mi

[WRX12tt]

Here is my Pennzoil Ultra UOA. PU 5w30 with an OEM Subaru filter. Easy on the car while daily driving, roughly 70% highway and 30% city driving. Four autocross events on the oil (~25 runs). At ~3,500 mi I realized that I had burned some oil and topped off with about 0.6 qts. When I changed the oil, I had burned another 0.3-0.4 qts. It didn't seem to burn much, if any, on the other oils. Currently trying out Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 this time around.

Code:


Oil---------------------- Factory Fill ------ Edge OE 5w30---Pennzoil Platinum 5w30--- Pennzoil Ultra 5w30--- Universal Averages

Miles In Use 3,002 4,048 3,351 4,547

Miles on Unit 3,002 7,050 10,401 14,948

Date Changed 2/1/13 5/10/13 8/05/13 11/11/13

Make up Oil Added--------- 0 Qts. ------------ 0 Qts. ------- 0 Qts. ------------------ 0.6 Qts.



Aluminum------------------ 7 ----------------- 9 ------------ 6 ----------------------- 5 --------------------- 4

Chromium 1 1 1 1 1

Iron 34 16 14 11 9

Copper 27 9 7 5 9

Lead---------------------- 0 ----------------- 0 ------------ 0 ----------------------- 0 --------------------- 3

Tin 4 3 2 0 1

Molybdenum 1079 435 118 70 72

Nickel 0 0 0 0 0

Manganese 2 1 1 0 1

Silver-------------------- 2 ----------------- 1 ------------ 0 ----------------------- 1 --------------------- 0

Titanium 0 1 0 2 0

Potassium 2 2 2 1 2

Boron 198 26 6 60 46

Silicon 89 19 10 5 11

Sodium-------------------- 8 ----------------- 6 ------------ 1 ----------------------- 2 --------------------- 28

Calcium 2105 1777 2388 2422 2006

Magnesium 12 6 12 15 369

Phosphorous 892 680 725 798 810

Zinc---------------------- 1082 -------------- 802 ---------- 831 --------------------- 842 ------------------- 960

Barium 2 1 0 0 0



SUS Viscosity @ 210F------ 52.4 -------------- 66.1 --------- 58.9 -------------------- 57.3 ------------------ 56-63

cSt Viscosity @ 100C 7.99 11.91 9.91 9.44 9.1-11.3

Flashpoint in F 405 435 405 425 >365

Fuel
Antifreeze %-------------- 0.0 --------------- 0.0 ---------- 0.0 --------------------- 0.0 ------------------- 0.0

Water %. 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
Insolubles % 0.2 0.3 0.1 0.3
TBN N/A 2.8 N/A 5.2

 

[actionstan]

Wow, I am really impressed typically you hear about turboed engines chewing oil up and spitting it out, but seems like this held up really nice on a little bit longer run. Metals seem to be coming down steadily as well.

I am curious whats the max interval allowed by subaru for a WRX engine to keep it within warranty?

 

[bigjl]

I noticed with my WRX (2.0 bought new in Jan 04) and my Legacy (2.0 but only single cam bought new April 04) that when driven hard they used a little oil.

Such as a high speed run at 90plus on the err, autobahn, to Scotland.

Round town and normal cruising about on dual carriageway it used none.

Not dissimilar to older petrol VW's. Funny how in both cases the engines are known to be rather long lived. (Thinking along line of the VW 1.8 8v lump etc)

Coincidence? Who knows.

 

[chubbs1]

Wow, no PU left and you run a 4.5k interval...sigh...what a waste.JK Seriously you could have gone farther (I thought Subaru let you go out to 7.5k) But with the auto cross and turbo I would have at least pulled a sample. Shows how good this oil is.

Why are you running ESP? A much cheaper oil could get the job done just as well. It is funny how when we see a higher pricetag item we think it must be better, not always true. Thanks for the valuable info and it is your car do what you like! I am starting to sound like DNewton.

 

[WRX12tt]

Originally Posted By: actionstan
Wow, I am really impressed typically you hear about turboed engines chewing oil up and spitting it out, but seems like this held up really nice on a little bit longer run. Metals seem to be coming down steadily as well.

I am curious whats the max interval allowed by subaru for a WRX engine to keep it within warranty?

On the 2011+ WRXs they allow 7,500 mile intervals. I'm slowly getting there

Originally Posted By: bigjl
I noticed with my WRX (2.0 bought new in Jan 04) and my Legacy (2.0 but only single cam bought new April 04) that when driven hard they used a little oil.

Such as a high speed run at 90plus on the err, autobahn, to Scotland.

Round town and normal cruising about on dual carriageway it used none.

Not dissimilar to older petrol VW's. Funny how in both cases the engines are known to be rather long lived. (Thinking along line of the VW 1.8 8v lump etc)

Coincidence? Who knows.

Cool, thanks for the info. I'll keep that in mind, as this interval had the "hardest" driving of all to date.

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Wow, no PU left and you run a 4.5k interval...sigh...what a waste.JK Seriously you could have gone farther (I thought Subaru let you go out to 7.5k) But with the auto cross and turbo I would have at least pulled a sample. Shows how good this oil is.

Why are you running ESP? A much cheaper oil could get the job done just as well. It is funny how when we see a higher pricetag item we think it must be better, not always true. Thanks for the valuable info and it is your car do what you like! I am starting to sound like DNewton.

Where I eventually want to get to is full 7,500 mile intervals using PU during winter and M1 ESP for summer/autocross season. I drive about 15k a year so this would work out nicely. Just testing the waters at the moment. I get a bit of piece of mind using a non RC 5w30 during autocross season, not sure how much the RC oils thin out and not sure where the oil temps are during an event; HTHS for the ESP is definitely higher than the PU. The WRX has no oil cooler and I have co-drivers at most events. But then again, autocrosses aren't track days so the temperatures may be fine. Maybe I should try sticking with the PU? It definitely is cheaper.

 

[Brule]

Originally Posted By: WRX12tt
When I changed the oil, I had burned another 0.3-0.4 qts. It didn't seem to burn much, if any, on the other oils.


I have had a similar experience with Pennzoil Ultra in my civic. It's a high mile engine that burns oil, but the usage skyrocketed with Ultra in it. Now that I put Amsoil in the usage is going back down. After I get a couple thousand miles on the Amsoil I'm going to start a new thread about my experience and comparison of Ultra consumption with all of the other oils I've tried.

BTW I'm doing my homework on my next car and at the moment it's narrowed to a 2011+ Mustang GT or a 2009+ WRX.

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: WRX12tt

Maybe I should try sticking with the PU? It definitely is cheaper.

Yes, it would be nice to see more than one trend on this oil in a WRX.

Pushing the interval much farther will probably result in a 20 grade, but that shouldn't be surprising. The viscosity held up better than a M1 5W-30 2,500 mile OCI posted on nasioc (that was 9.6). I don't think your burning/consumption is bad. I burned through two quarts of PU 5W-40 in 6k miles.

-Dennis

 

[bigjl]

I'm sure the service interval on the older (04ish) WRX's was 12k miles but it may have been 10k as I sold mine with just over 3500miles it only had the initial service at 1000miles.

The Mitsubishi Evo had a much shorter service interval something like 4500miles

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
I'm sure the service interval on the older (04ish) WRX's was 12k miles but it may have been 10k as I sold mine with just over 3500miles it only had the initial service at 1000miles.

The Mitsubishi Evo had a much shorter service interval something like 4500miles

It has never been over 7,500 miles in the U.S. Originally, pre-2011's were 7,500 miles for normal service and 3,750 miles for severe service. Around 2008, SoA changed the required interval to 3,750 for all turbos (due to AVCS and turbo banjo bolt screen sludging) and this was in place until model year 2011 when they dropped the thicker viscosity recommendations for severe service as well as allowing 7,500 mile intervals again.

In Canada, I believe all Subarus fall under severe service unless that changed within the past few years.

-Dennis

 

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted By: WRX12tt
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Wow, no PU left and you run a 4.5k interval...sigh...what a waste.JK Seriously you could have gone farther (I thought Subaru let you go out to 7.5k) But with the auto cross and turbo I would have at least pulled a sample. Shows how good this oil is.

Why are you running ESP? A much cheaper oil could get the job done just as well. It is funny how when we see a higher pricetag item we think it must be better, not always true. Thanks for the valuable info and it is your car do what you like! I am starting to sound like DNewton.

Where I eventually want to get to is full 7,500 mile intervals using PU during winter and M1 ESP for summer/autocross season. I drive about 15k a year so this would work out nicely. Just testing the waters at the moment. I get a bit of piece of mind using a non RC 5w30 during autocross season, not sure how much the RC oils thin out and not sure where the oil temps are during an event; HTHS for the ESP is definitely higher than the PU. The WRX has no oil cooler and I have co-drivers at most events. But then again, autocrosses aren't track days so the temperatures may be fine. Maybe I should try sticking with the PU? It definitely is cheaper.


I realize I'm a pretty big part of the reason you're trying the ESP. I don't think I'd switch between it and PU though, the additive packages are different enough that the engine might not like frequent switching between them. If RT6 and Redline 5w30 are fine in my car in a MN winter, ESP will be fine in a Denver winter. If you want to use PU 5w30 in the winter, you could go with PU 10w30 in the summer for a slightly more robust oil in auto-x season. The 10w30 has HTHS of 3.3 and I'm guessing its really shear stable.

I went to PepBoys today to pick up the ESP for $5/liter on their black Friday special, but they wouldn't sell it to me. Deal only applied to the "regular" M1. I also brought the $40 coupon for 5qts Ultra and a Purolator Synthetic filter only to find out the 5w20 they had on the shelf was still API SM, so I left empty handed.

I still may try it if I can find it or the new Delvac 1 5w30 for a decent price, otherwise it's back to Redline or M1 0w40 for me.

 

[bigjl]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: bigjl
I'm sure the service interval on the older (04ish) WRX's was 12k miles but it may have been 10k as I sold mine with just over 3500miles it only had the initial service at 1000miles.

The Mitsubishi Evo had a much shorter service interval something like 4500miles

It has never been over 7,500 miles in the U.S. Originally, pre-2011's were 7,500 miles for normal service and 3,750 miles for severe service. Around 2008, SoA changed the required interval to 3,750 for all turbos (due to AVCS and turbo banjo bolt screen sludging) and this was in place until model year 2011 when they dropped the thicker viscosity recommendations for severe service as well as allowing 7,500 mile intervals again.

In Canada, I believe all Subarus fall under severe service unless that changed within the past few years.

-Dennis


I was certainly surprised at the length of the service interval


Though as it was also a12month interval perhaps the thinking was that few would do many annual miles, turbos specifically

Though I must admit the Scooby scene in the UK opinion seems to be do an OCI in between the manufacturers interval

Apart from some issues with no3 piston(from memory) in the older Classic shape Turbo Scoobs the Impreza is known for reliability

As I have said before the use of -w50 oil is common with tuned engines, dealer use Full Synth 5w30, my dealer used Shell oils but you could pay extra for Mobil, I am sure it was 0w40.

 

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: bigjl
I'm sure the service interval on the older (04ish) WRX's was 12k miles but it may have been 10k as I sold mine with just over 3500miles it only had the initial service at 1000miles.

The Mitsubishi Evo had a much shorter service interval something like 4500miles

It has never been over 7,500 miles in the U.S. Originally, pre-2011's were 7,500 miles for normal service and 3,750 miles for severe service. Around 2008, SoA changed the required interval to 3,750 for all turbos (due to AVCS and turbo banjo bolt screen sludging) and this was in place until model year 2011 when they dropped the thicker viscosity recommendations for severe service as well as allowing 7,500 mile intervals again.

In Canada, I believe all Subarus fall under severe service unless that changed within the past few years.

-Dennis


I was certainly surprised at the length of the service interval

Though as it was also a12month interval perhaps the thinking was that few would do many annual miles, turbos specifically

Though I must admit the Scooby scene in the UK opinion seems to be do an OCI in between the manufacturers interval

As I have said before the use of -w50 oil is common with tuned engines, dealer use Full Synth 5w30, my dealer used Shell oils but you could pay extra for Mobil, I am sure it was 0w40.


IIRC it was only the FQ400 Evo that had the super short service interval.

What ACEA service grade is the 5w30 used by your dealer? I'll bet it's A3/B3/B4. Here in the US the 5w30 you get from the dealer will be ILSAC GF-5, which is ACEA A5/B5 if you're lucky.

 

[WRX12tt]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: WRX12tt

Maybe I should try sticking with the PU? It definitely is cheaper.

Yes, it would be nice to see more than one trend on this oil in a WRX.

Pushing the interval much farther will probably result in a 20 grade, but that shouldn't be surprising. The viscosity held up better than a M1 5W-30 2,500 mile OCI posted on nasioc (that was 9.6). I don't think your burning/consumption is bad. I burned through two quarts of PU 5W-40 in 6k miles.

-Dennis

Thanks, good to know it's somewhat common consumption

I do need to settle on an oil though. It's been different every change.

Originally Posted By: bigjl
I'm sure the service interval on the older (04ish) WRX's was 12k miles but it may have been 10k as I sold mine with just over 3500miles it only had the initial service at 1000miles.

The Mitsubishi Evo had a much shorter service interval something like 4500miles

Wow that's definitely longer than our interval. Yeah, as stated Subaru of America has our oil changes at 7,500 miles.

Originally Posted By: gpshumway

I realize I'm a pretty big part of the reason you're trying the ESP. I don't think I'd switch between it and PU though, the additive packages are different enough that the engine might not like frequent switching between them. If RT6 and Redline 5w30 are fine in my car in a MN winter, ESP will be fine in a Denver winter. If you want to use PU 5w30 in the winter, you could go with PU 10w30 in the summer for a slightly more robust oil in auto-x season. The 10w30 has HTHS of 3.3 and I'm guessing its really shear stable.

I went to PepBoys today to pick up the ESP for $5/liter on their black Friday special, but they wouldn't sell it to me. Deal only applied to the "regular" M1. I also brought the $40 coupon for 5qts Ultra and a Purolator Synthetic filter only to find out the 5w20 they had on the shelf was still API SM, so I left empty handed.

I still may try it if I can find it or the new Delvac 1 5w30 for a decent price, otherwise it's back to Redline or M1 0w40 for me.

No worries, I had been eyeing that oil already and you just gave me a slight nudge in that direction

I really liked and wanted to switch back to the Edge OE (cheaper than ESP), but a line in the Edge OE Professional Euro datasheet has Subaru under manufacturer approvals - none of the Edge OE Euro oils meet Subaru's manufacturer approvals. That explicit non-approval has me worried about warranty. With ESP, I'm still banking on the fact that it's API SM (or SN? I forgot. I would hope the non-RC fact is overlooked also) and the correct grade of 5w30.

Thanks for the heads up on switching back and forth. I had not thought of that. The intent wasn't for lower viscosity in the winter, but cheaper cost since the car doesn't see any hard driving in the winter. PU seemed fine for daily driving. I think I'll stick with the ESP year-round for now, especially if it turns out I can use it for the 7.5k OCI. I would think ESP would have a better chance with warranty over 10w30 PU?

Too bad - that would've been a killer deal on ESP. I'll have to look at the 5w30 Delvac, haven't heard of that.

 

[gpshumway]

Yea, unfortunately Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5w30 doesn't carry API SM (or newer), otherwise you could swap between PUE and regular PU. M1 ESP is API SN.

You could use Mobil 1 5w30 (GF-5) in the winter if you want to save $$. The GF-5 formulation seems to be much better than the maligned GF-4 formulation. There was an official Subaru document someplace where they mentioned 0w30, if you can find it you could also use M1 AFE 0w30 in the winter. It seems to be very good stuff and I'll bet the add-pack is almost identical to ESP.

 

[WRX12tt]

Originally Posted By: gpshumway
There was an official Subaru document someplace where they mentioned 0w30, if you can find it you could also use M1 AFE 0w30 in the winter. It seems to be very good stuff and I'll bet the add-pack is almost identical to ESP.

Nice...I'll have to go hunting for that document.

 

[gpshumway]

Found it for you:
http://content.subaru.com/mailings/2011/12/Insider/insideronline.html

Though it may not be much help. It lists "0w-30 Conventional" for a 2.5i.

I'd like to see a Subaru parts guy find me a 0w-30 conventional oil...

 

[bluesubie]

^ That's a typical SoA flub up on oil recommendations and it hasn't been repeated in any other documentation that I'm aware of. I know the 2013's, and I believe even some 2014's, still state that "5W-40 conventional" is allowed for replenishment.

You could also boost the PU 5W-30 with some PU 5W-40.

-Dennis

 

[WRX12tt]

Originally Posted By: gpshumway
Found it for you:
http://content.subaru.com/mailings/2011/12/Insider/insideronline.html

Though it may not be much help. It lists "0w-30 Conventional" for a 2.5i.

I'd like to see a Subaru parts guy find me a 0w-30 conventional oil...

Thanks for looking anyway. Good point on the 0w30 Conventional.

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
^ That's a typical SoA flub up on oil recommendations and it hasn't been repeated in any other documentation that I'm aware of. I know the 2013's, and I believe even some 2014's, still state that "5W-40 conventional" is allowed for replenishment.

You could also boost the PU 5W-30 with some PU 5W-40.

-Dennis

Yeah, I've thought about doing something like that too. Maybe down the road. I've also thought about Rotella T6/PU combo - basing that on the fact that they're both Shell products. Not sure if those two are "mixable" or not.

 

[EddieCairns]

In the UK and Europe up to 2000 Subaru advised 6 months or 7,500 mile oil change.

All other European cars were at 10 to 12,000 miles or more for an oil change.

The leasing companies told Subaru that they would no longer purchase their cars if they did not extended their OCI. Leasing companies hire out their cars to company drivers and servise and repair the cars over a three or four year period for a monthly fee.

In 2001 under commercial pressure Subaru had to compete with the other manufacturers in Europe and the UK.

From 2001 all non Turbos are 12 month or 12,000 mile oci and Turbos are 12 month or 10,000 mile OCI.

Last year I had a UOA done on my 2006 60k mile non Turbo Impreza which has had 10,000 mile OCI and there was no excessive wear apparent.

Dealers use a 5W/30 in the UK but Independent Subaru specialists tend to use a 5W/40 or 10W/40. Or 10W/50 for high power cars that do Trackdays.

eddie

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
I know the 2013's, and I believe even some 2014's, still state that "5W-40 conventional" is allowed for replenishment.

It's on the shelf at Subaru dealers beside the 0w-30 conventional.