Ford to pay C-Max owners after overstating hybrid'

[salv]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: salv

Failure to obtain the maximum fuel economy achieved in testing is an example of operator error, not false advertising.


You are wrong and/or don't understand the story here. EPA test itself could not get the very high "EPA" numbers Ford advertised.

Just because another group can't verify the mpg that the manufacturer obtained does not mean that they didn't achieve the results that they reported.
If you study a test well enough, and take it enough times, you will find a way to ace it every time.
Ford (and other manufacturers) have more MPG testing expertise than those who set the standards. Ford tests more than the EPA by far.
Ford didn't cheat. They found a way within the testing standards to maximize fuel economy, and the amateur drivers the EPA employs cannot replicate their results.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: salv
Bottom line, in all of these stories is that window stickers are not an MPG promise. They are not a guarantee to the customer. They are not something that a customer can "take to the bank". They are a representation of the fuel economy that a vehicle is capable of when driven "properly", under ideal circumstances. This means that the driver needs to adapt their driving style to characteristics of the vehicle if they want to obtain the best possible fuel economy, and no, that does not mean that a vehicle should come with a tutorial on how to obtain maximum fuel economy. In a hybrid, driving styles will have more impact on fuel economy because it will impact how frequently the gas motor comes on and stays on.
Failure to obtain the maximum fuel economy achieved in testing is an example of operator error, not false advertising.


Sorry, no sale. Some cars are fairly close to EPA estimates, some are pretty far off. The fact that Ford agreed to change the estimate shows this isn't "operator error", don't you think?

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: salv

3: if an automaker can employ a test driver and obtain 39 mpg, then the vehicle is capable of that mpg, and that means that their is "0" deception in the advertised mpg.


Like I said, you don't understand the whole thing. Ford never tested C-MAX MPG for the purpose of EPA. They just used the numbers from their similar car, Fusion, and just fudged the numbers till it gave them the magic 47/47/47.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: salv

Ford didn't cheat. They found a way within the testing standards to maximize fuel economy, and the amateur drivers the EPA employs cannot replicate their results.


Yes, they did. Claiming identical fuel economy for a vehicle with the exact same drivetrain, when that vehicle is both heavier and has higher drag is lying in my book. Your comments are also show a complete lack of understanding of the process by which the EPA ratings are affixed to vehicles. Do you work at a Ford dealer or something, because you're being incredibly unreasonable in your assertions.

 

[sciphi]

They found a loophole, exploited it, and are getting hammered for it now. Seems about just desserts to me.

 

[Vikas]

How many of you already want EPA disbanded? Some of you who frothing at mouth might have forgotten their earlier stance about EPA!

 

[supton]

Technically, one could get mpg estimates from CR or Motor Trend...

 

[edhackett]

Originally Posted By: salv

Ford didn't cheat. They found a way within the testing standards to maximize fuel economy, and the amateur drivers the EPA employs cannot replicate their results.


There is no driving involved in determining EPA fuel numbers. The cars are run though a simulated drive on a dynamometer and the fuel consumption numbers modeled from the emission data collected from the dyno run.

Ed

 

[Sonataman]

Majority of drivers "don't" get epa or better because they don't care, but they could.

I was able to get the $ from Hyundai from overstating mpg figures but chose not to because it does not apply to me. The car is not only quite capable of epa numbers, but bettering them by a wide margin if driven correctly.