Why techs know nothing about oil

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I have a confession to make. I am a ase L1 certified master tech and before I started lurking on Bitog I knew nothing about motor oil . I turn alot of hours. I had very good csi scores. A decade plus of turning wrenches bought me a nice house a new car every five years for the wife and I knew nothing about engine oil.

I knew how to look in the owners manual or maintenance card and find the right oil for the car I was working on. I couldn't tell you the difference between group III,IV,Or V. I don't think very many master techs could. Every good tech answering a oil related question at my dealership would say follow the recommended oil standard and interval for your car . That's the best advice a tech could every give a customer .

I see some posts on Bitog complaining about technicians general knowledge about oils . Even with the knowledge I have gained from these forums I always tell my customers to use our recommended oil and filter and change it at our recommended interval and that's all any good tech really needs to know unless they work at a after market performance shop then I would expect way more expertise on the matter.

A few years ago I left the dealership life and went to work the local police fleet maintenence. We have marked chargers, impalas, crown vics, and a few Taurus interceptors. We have over seven hundred vehicles in our fleet on 4k oci using mc synblend 5w20 or chevron Dino 5w30. We do not have hour meters in the cars even though they idle alot. In the three years I have been there we have not had one lube related failure and not one sludge motor. The impalas have a very small sump and take a hair over 4 qts I would say if you factored in idle time the impalas are doing the equivalent of 7-8k Dino oci and haven't had one sludge or internal engine failure. Most of the cars come in for service with the olm pegged at zero. I chalk it up to how good sn rated oils are
 
The fact that you tell people to stick to the manufacturer recommendation puts you way ahead of a lot of other mechanics, truthfully.
 
The newer ford crown vics and interceptors do have engine idle meters. I think 05+ on the crown vics with the newer cluster have it and the taurus interceptors definitely should have it...just in case you didnt know.
 
Victor, thanks for your perspective from the "other side".

The problem isn't techs who know nothing about oil. It's techs knowing nothing about oil, then dispensing faulty advice, like: "once you switch to synthetic you can't switch back" or "Pennzoil causes sludge"...things like that.

Telling the customer to follow the owner's manual recommendations is absolutely valid in almost every situation. I would much rather a tech told someone that than some of the horse-hockey I've heard...
 
Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Victor, thanks for your perspective from the "other side".

The problem isn't techs who know nothing about oil. It's techs knowing nothing about oil, then dispensing faulty advice, like: "once you switch to synthetic you can't switch back" or "Pennzoil causes sludge"...things like that.

Telling the customer to follow the owner's manual recommendations is absolutely valid in almost every situation. I would much rather a tech told someone that than some of the horse-hockey I've heard...


Exactly!
 
A couple of years ago, I had a co-worker who took his old beater Ford to the Ford dealership to have some minor engine work done. The engine had a little sludge in it and the seasoned tech ripped him a new one because he said that Valvoline causes sludge and he could tell by all the sludge that he had used Valvoline oil in the engine.
Of course, it's possible that the latest little service reminder on the inside of the windshield told the tech that the latest oil change was performed at a Valvoline quickie lube...
 
Originally Posted By: victorkoga
I always tell my customers to use our recommended oil and filter and change it at our recommended interval and that's all any good tech


That is very sound advice and it is a lot better advice than some Bodine advice I have heard and seen.
 
So much wisdom in this thread!

Most of all by the OP.

Kudos to an obviously honest mechanic who also has a realistic view on what he does and does not know. Exactly the kind of mechanic I wish I had access to!
 
Originally Posted By: victorkoga
I have a confession to make. I am a ase L1 certified master tech and before I started lurking on Bitog I knew nothing about motor oil . I turn alot of hours. I had very good csi scores. A decade plus of turning wrenches bought me a nice house a new car every five years for the wife and I knew nothing about engine oil.

I knew how to look in the owners manual or maintenance card and find the right oil for the car I was working on. I couldn't tell you the difference between group III,IV,Or V. I don't think very many master techs could. Every good tech answering a oil related question at my dealership would say follow the recommended oil standard and interval for your car . That's the best advice a tech could every give a customer .

I see some posts on Bitog complaining about technicians general knowledge about oils . Even with the knowledge I have gained from these forums I always tell my customers to use our recommended oil and filter and change it at our recommended interval and that's all any good tech really needs to know unless they work at a after market performance shop then I would expect way more expertise on the matter.

A few years ago I left the dealership life and went to work the local police fleet maintenence. We have marked chargers, impalas, crown vics, and a few Taurus interceptors. We have over seven hundred vehicles in our fleet on 4k oci using mc synblend 5w20 or chevron Dino 5w30. We do not have hour meters in the cars even though they idle alot. In the three years I have been there we have not had one lube related failure and not one sludge motor. The impalas have a very small sump and take a hair over 4 qts I would say if you factored in idle time the impalas are doing the equivalent of 7-8k Dino oci and haven't had one sludge or internal engine failure. Most of the cars come in for service with the olm pegged at zero. I chalk it up to how good sn rated oils are


The experience I am looking for in a mechanic is gained knowing things he has come across a few times and thus has a knowledge based opinion. So when I brought my Jeep to the shop at 96K and asked about a tick, they said maybe cracked piston skirt, they had replaced a few Jeep 4.0 engines for that reason. The engine trashed itself a month latter, one of the rods was no longer attached to the piston.
 
I like sites like this, because sometimes I may find answers to problems, and to learn what is going on with oils. I have had a few strange ones over the years, and luckily I was able to figure them out. When I was 18 my dad bought a new Dodge, and after 3K mi it started to foul plugs. The dealer would tune it up but almost like clock work, around 580 to 620mi it would foul some. The the service mgr tried to tell me it ran rough because it was a big V-8. After the 3rd tuneup they rebuilt the motor. Having the factory shop manual I saw where The police 2-4bbl motor had the same plugs. Each smaller motor used hotter plugs. Ours was the same size but with 1-4bbl, and driven in the city a lot. I tried to convince the mgr to try hotter plugs, but he said it could void the warranty. After the rebuild with light breaking in oil, the plugs didn't foul for 1200mi. I went out and bought one heat range hotter, and never had a problem again, though at 45K it was using oil, and changing brands solved that.

Had an old car that started using a lot of oil when driving on the road. It was mostly a city car before that, and I think the rings got gummed up, because pouring a little crancase flush down te carb and letting it sit over nite a few times, got the oil mileage on the road, from 30mi/qt to 550. When I stopped using the flush, because the mileage didn't improve, it would gradually fall off again. I blamed the closed CC venting for sucking oil vapors into the engine and burned. The car did have some blow by.

Another high mileage car, only used for short trips was really sludged up, and the oil return holes were plugged up. I opened them up, and a while after the car lost oil pressure. I thought the oil pump went bad, and because it was hard to get the pan off, I happened to see that the pump pick up screen was visable through the drain hole, and decided to operate, and drilled a hole in the side of the screen/cup, and back flushed it with CC flush, and the flush came out slow, and then faster and faster. Filled it with oil, and got pressure, and drove it for 5 more years.

Now with an 07' Subaru bought new, and having heard some with piston slap, I'd like to avoid that or other problems, because I dread having to work on the motor. My 86' Chevy is simple compared to it, and I have some health issues. I'm using QSUD in the Subaru, changing it every 6 mo, and with the low mi I put on it, using the used oil in the old Chevy, that doesn't get a lot of use, with a qt of fresh oil, and hoping that is OK for the Chevy. QS claims the old oil is still passing new oil specs when it is time to change, and with a qt of fresh, should add some additives, and the Chevy didn't need as good an oil, calling for SF, and cuts costs.
 
Originally Posted By: SigQAEngineer
That's something to be proud of !! 90% + is not easy to obtain, especially the way surveys are structured, such as JD Power Surveys.

victorkoga said:
I had very good csi scores.



96.7% CSI
cool.gif
 
Originally Posted By: GSCJR
So basically, we are spending way too much time on this site.


It's close to not being necessary to come here at all, but the fun debate and having a technical hobby makes it worth our time.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
The fact that you tell people to stick to the manufacturer recommendation puts you way ahead of a lot of other mechanics, truthfully.

Absolutely. There is room for alternative suggestions under certain niche circumstances, but the vast majority of people and their vehicles are well served to stick to that advice.
 
I worked in the business until medical issues sidelined me in 2012. I knew many people who were skilled at repair, but they called Quaker State "Quaker Sludge" and blamed that oil. Although I didn't hear the Pennzoil myth as often, there were certainly a large number of people who feared the stuff.

Every time they did that, I would always remind them that engine oil has standards it must meet. If the engine got sludged, either the car was not maintained correctly, the car manufacturer specified an OCI that was too long, or the car manufacturer made some kind of error.

I remember once, the boss was the one who believed such an urban legend. This was back in 2008. We had a Dodge CTD come in for an oil change, and I brought out the Pennzoil 15w40 CJ4. He stopped me, and I asked "What's wrong? It meets the manufacturer's specifications." He then said Pennzoil 15w40 is junk, and ordered Shell Rotella 15w40. I had to be quiet because my job was already at risk.

Sometimes customers come in believing oil myths too. One guy came in with a F350 7.3 PSD, and he said he worried that the zinc was taken out of oils. I explained how API CJ-4 means there is less zinc, but they made up for it with other additives.

The other challenge is people who come in with cars that only accept full synthetic. They get really angry when they discover that. I usually get ordered to put conventional oil in their car, and can't override the order. This is one reason I am half glad to be sidelined by medical issues.
 
Originally Posted By: Torrid

It's close to not being necessary to come here at all, but the fun debate and having a technical hobby makes it worth our time.


Sometimes I feel the same way.....

Find a quality product that works well for your application and stick with it. But, I think most BITOGers have OCD and like to split hairs. (Myself included)
 
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
The newer ford crown vics and interceptors do have engine idle meters. I think 05+ on the crown vics with the newer cluster have it and the taurus interceptors definitely should have it...just in case you didnt know.


We have vics up to 08 then we started buying impalas and chargers exclusively. We bought six ford sedan interceptors (they hate when I call it a taurus) . They probably do have hour meters but our department doesn't use them except on the air boats,generators and marine equipment
 
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