MMO and false advertising

[GMorg]

MMO advertises on the bottle that is has been made since 1923 and that the bottle contains the "original formula". I have been trying to track down the major components of MMO and have found four different MSDS filings. Some have chlorinated hydrocarbons, some do not. Some have two heavy napthenic fractions, some have one. There have been some significant changes to MMO over the last 15 years. I don't have any confirmable information as to the earlier formulations.

How can the formula change and still be legally lable it as "original formula"?

 

[another Todd]

Call them and ask them.

 

[mechtech]

This all hinges on the different data sources being correct.

 

[GMorg]

another Todd,

I sent an E-mail yesterday.


mechtech,

I found PDS versions of what were clearly photocopies of original documents. Your point is taken though.

 

[GMorg]

I am just guessing, but I bet that dichlorobenzene was not used in the original 1923 formulation. It is in the 2001 MSDS however.

 

[TallPaul]

Well it could be that the bottle "contains the original formula" along with some new stuff and the wording would be technically correct.

 

[another Todd]

Tallpaul might have something there.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

I still contain my original formula even though I've changed a lot.

 

[TallPaul]

Since the MSDS typically brackets various chemical categories, there is wiggle room for two different oils to share the same MSDS, as there is for modification of the MSDS information for the same and unchanged oil formulation. Some changes may be due to updates in the MSDS reporting regulations too.

It actually might be a good thing if the formulation of MMO were updated since 1923.

 

[GMorg]

As and update to this thread, please find below the E-mail that I sent to Turtle Wax and the E-mail that they sent in response.

GMorg wrote to TurtleWax:

"I currently use Marvel Mystery Oil as a fuel additive. On the bottle lable it states that it has been made since 1923 and it states that it is the "Original Formula". I have found at least 4 different MSDS sheets for this product (I have not been able to get a current MSDS), and each lists different ingredients. How can the "formula" keep changing and yet still be the "Original Formula".
Any clarification that you can provide would be appreciated."


TurtleWax replied:

"Thank you for your interest in Marvel Mystery Oil. In response to your question, there are several explanations for the differences that you are seeing. If you have obtained the Material Safety Data Sheets from the internet, these MSDS's are posted by third parties in their own formats. In some instances, synonyms may be used for the same chemical so it looks like there is a difference in the formula. Also, formats and legal requirements may require listing a chemical that previously was not required to be listed. Turtle Wax purchased the Marvel Oil Company in 1998 and we can trace the formula back to 1976 when the formula had to be registered with the EPA as a gasoline and diesel fuel additive. The formula today is the same formula as back in 1976. While we do not have a paper trail for the original formula due to several ownership changes and company moves over the years, we are confident that the current formula is very similar if not exactly the same as the original formula. Attached is the current MSDS for Marvel Mystery Oil."

 

[GMorg]

For those that are curious, the current MSDS ingredient listing for MMO is below.

code:

---

COMPONENT CAS NUMBER CONCENTRATION (wt %)



Naphthenic

Hydrocarbons 64742-52-5 70 – 80



Mineral Spirits 08052-41-3 20 – 30



Chlorinated

Hydrocarbons 00095-50-1 0 – 1

---

 

[Pablo]

rut row

 

[GMorg]

As far as I can tell, CAS 00095-50-1 is specifically for 1,2-dichlorobenzene (as opposed to a mixture of chloro-carbons).

 

[GMorg]

By the way, 1,2-dichlorobenzene is the crystal-type mothballs. Since commercial production began in 1921, it could have been in the 1923 MMO formulation. You know, mothballs (different flavor) as a fuel additive has a long history.

 

[Terry]

Tried to warn you...... specifically as relates to being used as a fuel add.

"There have been some significant changes to MMO over the last 15 years. I don't have any confirmable information as to the earlier formulations."

 

[another Todd]

So what does this mean? Stop using immediatly and dump current MMO supplies with the waste oil? I've heard of guys putting mothballs in the fuel tank, saying it raised octane. Didn't appear to do any harm.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

[ July 28, 2006, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: toocrazy2yoo ]

 

[GMorg]

dichlorobenzene moth "crystals" are not the same type of moth "ball" that has been used to increase octane.

In the first half of the century, when gasoline octane rating averaged between 40-70, Naphthalene (round-ish, molded mothballs) was used to increase octane. When blened in gasoline, I think that Naphthalene has an octane rating of around 90. So, Naphthalene is fairly useless today as an octane booster.

Keep in mind that any insoluble impurities in mothballs will have to make their way through the fuel system. I think that fuel pump failures were a common problem for those that used the mothball trick too often.

 

[another Todd]

Terry and Pablo are saying there is a problem with the MMO formula. What is the problem and what does that mean in relation to how lots of people seem to be using it. Is it now reccomended by the guys on this board to NOT use it in our fuel? In our oil? Change dilution? I do not know what is being refered to here!

 

[GMorg]

I will let Terry and Pablo clarify what they have said. For me, I will try to clarify my concern. First, MMO cannot be horribly harmful or there would have been many issues raised previously. This is an old product. It may or may not be useful, but I don't think that it will destroy an engine from occasional use. On the other hand, MMO contains Chlorinated hydrocarbons. Such compounds produce hydrochloric acid as a by-product of combustion. Hyrdrochloric acid is not very friendly with metals. Is there enough HCl produced to be a problem? I don't know. I am currently using MMO as a diluent in another thread (link). I will continue to use it until it is gone. After that I will likely change to another diluent.

By the way, the old chloro/fluorocarbon-based carb cleaners produced both hydrochloric and hydrofluoric acids when they passed through the combustion chamber. Each good, stought spray down the carb of a running engine probably produced about the same amount of acid as a dose of MMO.