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#3061085 - 07/10/13 07:52 PM Engine Guard II filter + Restore & LM MoS2
Phishin Offline


Registered: 05/01/12
Posts: 1548
Loc: Indiana
Today Clevy said an oil filter would be plugged with the oil additive Restore on board.

This oil filter was run for 5k miles with Napa All Fleet conventional 15w40 in my 1990 Chevy K1500.

There was TWO 6-cylinder sized cans of Restore added at beginning of the OCI. In the middle of the OCI, I added a can of Lubro Moly MoS2. This is a LARGE dose of Restore!!! And it was spiked with granular moly.

I see no problems here. Filter looked great. No collapsed media, all pleats were evenly spaced.

I see no oil filter clogging problem here.....do you?













Edited by Phishin (07/10/13 08:00 PM)
_________________________
2010 Accord-LX K24: PU 5w30
2009 Subaru Forester 2.5X: Castrol 0w30
1990 Chevy K1500 350TBI: Frankenbrew
2008 Ruckus 50ccGET: M1R Mix

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#3061113 - 07/10/13 08:14 PM Re: Engine Guard II filter + Restore & LM MoS2 [Re: Phishin]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7879
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Yep. That slime is blocking the oil passages. Mos2 doesn't plug them. Restore does. I found out the hard way on a 305. Fortunately I had a 350 to install.
That slime on the outer plates doesn't look like oil to me nor do I believe oil is getting through that slime.
Believe what you want.
Restore by its own admission claims to contain soft metals. Now unless those metals are nano sized do you really believe the filter isn't catching them.


Edited by Clevy (07/10/13 08:18 PM)
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3061127 - 07/10/13 08:28 PM Re: Engine Guard II filter + Restore & LM MoS2 [Re: Phishin]
dave1251 Online   happy


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 7411
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
That filter looks like it did all it could. I do not understand this fascination with adding additives to motor oils just to add them.
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make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
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#3061134 - 07/10/13 08:34 PM Re: Engine Guard II filter + Restore & LM MoS2 [Re: dave1251]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 13760
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: dave1251
That filter looks like it did all it could. I do not understand this fascination with adding additives to motor oils just to add them.


+1. More is not always better.
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#3061155 - 07/10/13 08:49 PM Re: Engine Guard II filter + Restore & LM MoS2 [Re: Phishin]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 4736
Loc: Mahzurrah!
That media doesn't look very healthy to me either. Pull up a bunch of cut open filter pics, unless there is heavy engine sludge the media does not usually look "coated" like that. I will speculate that filter was spending a good amount of time in bypass before you replaced it.

I don't know enough about Restore or your engine to blame the Restore, but I have cut open multiple filters that had full doses of MoS2 in the oil and they looked perfectly normal.
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#3061163 - 07/10/13 08:56 PM Re: Engine Guard II filter + Restore & LM MoS2 [Re: Phishin]
MrMeeks Offline


Registered: 05/16/10
Posts: 338
Loc: Maryland,
I will devise a test for this.will report later

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#3061167 - 07/10/13 08:59 PM Re: Engine Guard II filter + Restore & LM MoS2 [Re: Phishin]
Phishin Offline


Registered: 05/01/12
Posts: 1548
Loc: Indiana
Oh my....all three of you showed up at once. LOL!!! Nice. You can't resist, can you? It's like me and ice cream...I can't help myself.

In all fairness Clevy, when you rub the pleats with your finger, the residue is "greasy". I felt no abrasiveness to it at all, but it was "greasy", not "oily". So, obviously, the filter was catching some of the particulate matter found in Restore and possibly LM MoS2.

The question is, is the filter really plugged? Wouldn't a plugged filter begin to collapse or have pleat seperation if it was plugged for 5000 miles?

There is no way to prove this, but maybe this "greasy" material on the pleats, help improve the filter. Everyone knows a dirty filter does a better job than a clean one.

So, how do yo test to see if this filter is clogged? How do you test this? Can someone on this board "bench-flow" a filter on an apparatus? If so, let me run the Purolator classic I just installed for another 5k miles, and send this filter off to be tested for flow/filtration. I'd be willing to do that.

For what it's worth....the company that makes Restore told me before I added it to my oil that the copper, silver, and lead in their product is smaller than 10 microns and would pass through an oil filter. LM MoS2 claims the same thing. But ARCO claimed his filter was plugged immediately in his Honda Fit after adding a can of LM MoS2. Yet, he's the only one that has ever claimed that on here.

Hmmmm......
_________________________
2010 Accord-LX K24: PU 5w30
2009 Subaru Forester 2.5X: Castrol 0w30
1990 Chevy K1500 350TBI: Frankenbrew
2008 Ruckus 50ccGET: M1R Mix

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#3061171 - 07/10/13 09:01 PM Re: Engine Guard II filter + Restore & LM MoS2 [Re: KCJeep]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7879
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
That media doesn't look very healthy to me either. Pull up a bunch of cut open filter pics, unless there is heavy engine sludge the media does not usually look "coated" like that.


That's the restore being filtered out.
I'm a big fan of mos2 and I cut open all my oil filters since joining this site. Never have I had a filter look like that when using mos2 but I have seen them look like that using restore.
Its like a slimy sludge type gunk. Last year my younger brother used restore in his dodge with a 5.9. It did lessen the smoke coming from the tail pipe but he mentioned his oil pressure was all over the place. I switched his filter with a new one which fixed the fluttering gauge and cut open the filter with a sawzall and the media was similar to the pics above but thicker. I was confident the filter was in bypass. Restore is very bad stuff. Just read the contents and think about it. Soft metals. Sure they fill in any defects however unless those metals are dissolved completely in the carrier oil that has to mean there are particle sizes.
Do a used oil analysis and get a particle count on the insols. Lead and copper will be off the scale and in particle sizes that do more harm than good over the long term.
However Phishin you do whatever you like. Posting that filter pretty much proves my comment correct. That slime is what I was talking about,and your pics prove to me beyond any doubt.
Unless your engine is filled with sludge,which restore is certainly contributing to.
Better order some kreen.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3061176 - 07/10/13 09:06 PM Re: Engine Guard II filter + Restore & LM MoS2 [Re: KCJeep]
Phishin Offline


Registered: 05/01/12
Posts: 1548
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I don't know enough about Restore or your engine to blame the Restore, but I have cut open multiple filters that had full doses of MoS2 in the oil and they looked perfectly normal.


And to be totally fair to my engine....it was filthy inside when I bought it 20k miles ago. I mean filthy. I scrapped sludge out of the valve train with screw drivers....that kind of dirty.

The truck also burns a HUGE amount of oil. Like a quart every 400-500 miles.

The oil is sooooo black after 1000 miles, it looks like tar. No matter what oil or filter I use.

After purchasing the truck, I ran 4 OCI's around 500 miles and manually cleaned under the valve covers. I've run 3 quarts of Kreen through it. I've also ran over 2 gallons of MMO through it. I've done about all I can to help remove as much internal crud as I can. I think this "greasy" stuff I'm seeing on the filter is mostly just sludge.

However, the truck runs sooooo smoth with Restore on board. It evened out my compression, like it said it would. My idle is super smooth now. Truck also burns less oil....down to a quart every 1200 miles or so.



Edited by Phishin (07/10/13 09:18 PM)
_________________________
2010 Accord-LX K24: PU 5w30
2009 Subaru Forester 2.5X: Castrol 0w30
1990 Chevy K1500 350TBI: Frankenbrew
2008 Ruckus 50ccGET: M1R Mix

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#3061183 - 07/10/13 09:15 PM Re: Engine Guard II filter + Restore & LM MoS2 [Re: Phishin]
cmorr Offline


Registered: 12/10/06
Posts: 621
Loc: Exeter Twp, PA
Phishin, since you are asking for opinions I will offer mine (totally unbiased, never interacted with you before)

That filter looks completely clogged with a combination of oil and another substance
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#3061202 - 07/10/13 09:30 PM Re: Engine Guard II filter + Restore & LM MoS2 [Re: Phishin]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7879
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: Phishin
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I don't know enough about Restore or your engine to blame the Restore, but I have cut open multiple filters that had full doses of MoS2 in the oil and they looked perfectly normal.


And to be totally fair to my engine....it was filthy inside when I bought it 20k miles ago. I mean filthy. I scrapped sludge out of the valve train with screw drivers....that kind of dirty.

The truck also burns a HUGE amount of oil. Like a quart every 400-500 miles.

The oil is sooooo black after 1000 miles, it looks like tar. No matter what oil or filter I use.

After purchasing the truck, I ran 4 OCI's around 500 miles and manually cleaned under the valve covers. I've run 3 quarts of Kreen through it. I've also ran over 2 gallons of MMO through it. I've done about all I can to help remove as much internal crud as I can. I think this "greasy" stuff I'm seeing on the filter is mostly just sludge.

However, the truck runs sooooo smoth with Restore on board. It evened out my compression, like it said it would. My idle is super smooth now. Truck also burns less oil....down to a quart every 1200 miles or so.



Fair enough. However that doesn't mean anything I said wasn't true. You posted this to discredit my comments on restore however basically you proved my point.
If you need restore to keep your engine alive I promise its short lived and you should be shopping for another engine ASAP.
Mos2 would have likely achieved the same result but it would have taken a bit longer.
For example I have a 5.0 that smoked on start up and had 150 in 3 cylinders and 155 in the other 5. Mos2 stopped the oil puff at start up and all cylinders are 175 or more. It took 1500kms before it completely stopped smoking but that 5.0 now consumes no oil whatsoever and I'm running 5w-20 in it just as a test.
Restore plugs filters,period. What is in that filter is sludge and restore. I've seen it more than once,when restore was the only additive involved.
Restore is like Lucas. Use it in an engine that you know is dying,and you aren't going to fix.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3061255 - 07/10/13 10:16 PM Re: Engine Guard II filter + Restore & LM MoS2 [Re: Phishin]
Phishin Offline


Registered: 05/01/12
Posts: 1548
Loc: Indiana
How can we prove the filter is plugged or not? How can we know if this filter is stuck in by-pass because there is no flow?
_________________________
2010 Accord-LX K24: PU 5w30
2009 Subaru Forester 2.5X: Castrol 0w30
1990 Chevy K1500 350TBI: Frankenbrew
2008 Ruckus 50ccGET: M1R Mix

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#3061273 - 07/10/13 10:58 PM Re: Engine Guard II filter + Restore & LM MoS2 [Re: Phishin]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7879
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: Phishin
How can we prove the filter is plugged or not? How can we know if this filter is stuck in by-pass because there is no flow?


You would have had to test it before cutting it open.
Regardless based on what is visible if it wasn't in absolute by-pass flow was certainly constricted.
Anyways I do thank you for calling me out and posting pics. You've proved my point based on the pics provided. And restore hangs around for awhile. You'll be getting mud like that as the soft metal wears off the worn spots.
I've got to wonder why you would add both additives. Moly plates metal. Adding restore will either force the moly to plate the restore and come off with it as it wears off,or the moly will plate the metal then the restore can't adhere,so in effect they are working to achieve the same goal but doing it with different elements and in effect compromising each others layer.
Anyways thanks for the pics.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3061348 - 07/11/13 01:18 AM Re: Engine Guard II filter + Restore & LM MoS2 [Re: Phishin]
Voltmaster Offline


Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 836
Loc: California
Unless you ran that oil for more than 5k there shouldnt be this much gooe-ness in there.

The restore defenetly did a job on this filter.


Out of curiosity why so much additive? MoS is not cheap migh as well go to walmart buy 5qt jug and call it a day.

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#3061374 - 07/11/13 05:29 AM Re: Engine Guard II filter + Restore & LM MoS2 [Re: Phishin]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4221
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
The filter doesn't look that good-but, remember, his engine is already pretty much toast anyway, so as long as it doesn't spin a bearing I wouldn't worry too much about it!
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