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#305275 - 06/02/06 08:58 AM XcelPlus
another Todd Offline


Registered: 05/15/06
Posts: 1503
Loc: Southern CA
Anybody ever heard of or used this stuff. Comes in a two pack, one for the fuel, one for the oil. Good? Bad?

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#305276 - 06/02/06 11:41 AM Re: XcelPlus
psudaytona Offline


Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 936
Loc: Pittsburgh,PA
I smell snakeoil.
http://xcelplus.com/about_xcelplus/what.htm
"what's in this stuff?


Well, we can't tell you that! We will, however, tell you that the Permanent Engine Protection product has been around since 1975. It goes in as a liquid and turns into a solid when it gets hot."

Uh, maybe I missed something. In an engine, WHY would you want your liquids(oil) to turn into a solid? They kinda defeats the whole purpose of a lube. Right?

"First it cleans all lubricated metal parts within the engine. Then the coating process begins and forms a 1-2 micron thin coating that is permanently bonded to the metal in your engine. "

Sounds like a rebranding of Teflon....as we all know, its a great additive, well at least the folks at FRAM think so.

"The product does not contain any harmful solids such as TeflonŽ, Moly, extra ZDDP, Halides, Sulfides or EPA products. (Check out our product classifications section for more information on these dangerous additives)"

Dont know where to begin with this, what they describe sounds ALOT like the claims made for teflon as in it coatas the metal. But yeah, we all know just how bad that evil ZDDP and moly are in your motor oil. I mean for heavens sake we always have posts saying "How do I pick the oil with the LEAST moly in it", or "Is there any way to negate the effects of ZDDP?!?!".
[LOL!]

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#1406824 - 03/18/09 09:17 AM Re: XcelPlus [Re: psudaytona]
slick1 Offline


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia...
The fuel treatmentis just a cleaner.

The treatment that goes in via the oil is permanent.

They do have an 2-stroke treatment that could be used to coat the combustion chamber of a 4-stroke engine... and that is permanent too. Unfortunately that seems to be no longer available unless you were to order it specially and in bulk.

Permanent is defined as requiring re-treatment after ~160,000kms (or if you change parts in the engine).

If it didn't bond to the metal it would be swept out with the oil change... and couldn't be permanent.

As it's not an oil it doesn't affect your oil in any way.

Teflon degrades at 280oC... so it's not really safe in engines... as after this it forms HF (Hydrofluoric Acid) which is a deadly neurotoxin.

I've wondered what the polymer in Xcelplus is made up of so I'm hoping to test it next semester as part of my chemistry project.
It's not Teflon. There's a NASA test there that says it is a carbon based polymer and shows a picture of a surface with and without it... but nothing more about the structure.

I suspect it's not a known polymer... and that's why the manufacturer/chemist (John Bishop) doesn't describe it more precisely.

It appears not to have been patented either probably because being an unknown compound provides better protection than a patent.

:-)
_________________________
The definition of madness is to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result... Albert Einstein

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#1407281 - 03/18/09 05:02 PM Re: XcelPlus [Re: slick1]
MinivanMauler Offline


Registered: 02/23/08
Posts: 127
Loc: Alabama
Identifying an unknown polymer is a fairly major undertaking.

First, you'll have to isolate it from all the other junk it will be mixed with.

Then, you're probably looking at X-ray diffraction at a bare minimum. You may even need broadband ultrasonic attenuation analysis.

And then there's the issue of determining the average molecular weight.

Yeah, I know... sounds like FUN!

Keep us posted on your project.
_________________________
The plural of anecdote is not 'data.'

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#1407315 - 03/18/09 05:45 PM Re: XcelPlus [Re: another Todd]
Durango Offline


Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 2006
Loc: Los Angeles, California
 Originally Posted By: another Todd
Anybody ever heard of or used this stuff. Comes in a two pack, one for the fuel, one for the oil. Good? Bad?



Todd,

I admit I tried it back in 01' on my Dodge Durango. Can't say either way if it was good or bad. I never saw any difference on my long trips.

Durango

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#1407775 - 03/19/09 03:26 AM Re: XcelPlus [Re: Durango]
slick1 Offline


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia...
It's relatively simple to test if it's working.

...but you do have to do a before and after test or two (seat of the pants doesn't count).

The most foolproof test is to do an oil analysis.

However the cheapest test that always works is to use a magnetic sump plug.

Before the treatment the sump plug will have lots of metal on it.

After the treatment the sump plug will have noticeably less metal on it.

Less metal means less wear.

200,000kms down the track you still have very little metal on the sump plug... which means the treatment didn't get flushed out with the first oil change.

If you don't have a magnetic sump plug then simply drill a hole and fit a 1" long 4mm wide rod magnet. The magnet costs about $2.

:-)
_________________________
The definition of madness is to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result... Albert Einstein

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#1407777 - 03/19/09 03:36 AM Re: XcelPlus [Re: MinivanMauler]
slick1 Offline


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia...
Apparently NMR is the way to go:

C-NMR and H-NMR (carbon & hydrogen)

This should work fine if it's carbon based.

We've got an expert in Polymers on staff who is going to advise me on what is required. He assures me I haven't picked something too hard... so I tend to believe him.

I've got access to a lot of equipment... and I've even got a couple of the staff members interested (a polymer that is acid resistant, heat resistant and super slippery... could be quite useful in the lab). I'm hoping a few of them will also chip in with assistance if required.

:-)

 Originally Posted By: MinivanMauler
Identifying an unknown polymer is a fairly major undertaking.

First, you'll have to isolate it from all the other junk it will be mixed with.

Then, you're probably looking at X-ray diffraction at a bare minimum. You may even need broadband ultrasonic attenuation analysis.

And then there's the issue of determining the average molecular weight.

Yeah, I know... sounds like FUN!

Keep us posted on your project.
_________________________
The definition of madness is to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result... Albert Einstein

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#1871163 - 04/25/10 11:40 PM Re: XcelPlus [Re: slick1]
slick1 Offline


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia...
Apparently NMR will only identify any repeating elements. Knowing which elements is useful but won't tell you what order they're in... at least not in a polymer.

That means NMR is only marginally useful in describing this undocumented molecule.

We still should be able to expand on the properties of the polymer with other tests (our labs have all the common tests available). I think it won't be till I get my teeth stuck into this testing that I'll be able to be a bit more definitive on which tests are the most useful.

:-)


Edited by slick1 (04/25/10 11:41 PM)
_________________________
The definition of madness is to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result... Albert Einstein

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#1872466 - 04/27/10 01:39 AM Re: XcelPlus [Re: slick1]
postjeeprcr Offline


Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 1778
Loc: USA
It is interesting on the website they state it is sold at 1 Advance Auto Parts.
_________________________
If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

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#1872878 - 04/27/10 12:53 PM Re: XcelPlus [Re: postjeeprcr]
Cup of Joe Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 1795
Loc: United We Stand
Advance auto Hampton, Va. It is possible it is sold in that store since I know they used to have a sales rep in the area. If you check the company was headquartered just north of the hampton roads area.
_________________________
2011 Ford Ranger 57K M1 5W-20, M1 ATF in the manual trans, M1 Gear lube.

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#1873029 - 04/27/10 03:02 PM Re: XcelPlus [Re: Cup of Joe]
rszappa1 Offline


Registered: 02/24/06
Posts: 1664
Loc: louisville ky
Why do people keep falling for all of this snake oil.....year after year.....same junk in a different bottle....

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#1985802 - 08/14/10 09:45 AM Re: XcelPlus [Re: rszappa1]
slick1 Offline


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia...
How can all products possibly be the same?

A search of all engine treatments on the net found only one with extensive testing on the web site: Xcelplus.

Xcelplus was the only metal treatment: which means it changes the properties of the metal.

The rest are oil additives: which means they change the properties of the oil.

Xcelplus is the only permanent treatment on the market. The others need to be added each oil change.

The only other additive with some credible testing was Tufoil... and their claim to fame is that the Guiness Book of records lists them as the slipperiest lubricant (which obviously required some testing).

Both Xcelplus and Tufoil also stood out as the only products that hadn't been sued for fraud.

:-)


Edited by slick1 (08/14/10 09:46 AM)
_________________________
The definition of madness is to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result... Albert Einstein

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#2081141 - 11/19/10 03:17 AM Re: XcelPlus [Re: slick1]
slick1 Offline


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia...
FT-IR spectroscopy and XPS (Xray Photoelectron Spectroscopy) turned out to be the most effective way of investigating Xcelplus.

FT-IR is by far the easiest and cheapest as most labs have it but it's not usually considered a definitive test.

As a result of the testing we put up a lot more info on the web site.

:-)
_________________________
The definition of madness is to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result... Albert Einstein

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#2081431 - 11/19/10 11:20 AM Re: XcelPlus [Re: another Todd]
gto78 Offline


Registered: 03/04/08
Posts: 129
Loc: PSL, FL
The Excelplus line is sold in the USA under the name Lubrilon.

I had tried to order some for the heck of it a while ago and it never showed up, even though my paypal payment was accepted immediately. I began trying to call but both their phone numbers and also their email address are no longer working....So I filed a complaint with Paypal, who then gave me the payment recipient's email address and began the complaint timeline.

The Lubrilon company is in a temporary state of reorganizing and right now is just refunding the last batch of orders. The guy I contacted was nice and helpful, and refunded the money.

I told him I heard Lubrilon has Chlorinated Parafins and that it also contains it's own version of Teflon even though they call it something completely different. He was very adamant that it absolutely does not contain any of those ingredients and he still claims that NASA already proved this. I think they have letters from NASA, the EPA, and some other government agencies. Supposedly the US Army was using Lubrilon in it's equipment to save fuel....

Either way, don't send them your money. If you do choose to try the product in the future then do it by phone so you know they're in business.

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#2680598 - 07/11/12 09:24 AM Re: XcelPlus [Re: gto78]
slick1 Offline


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia...
They went through a re-organisation about 2 years ago.

Should now run a lot more smoothly.

:-)
_________________________
The definition of madness is to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result... Albert Einstein

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