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#3000426 - 05/13/13 01:29 AM How do I flush the radiator in my 04 Corolla
Apeiria Offline


Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Idaho
Hi, I'm a single mom/in school/& on a very limited budget. I know it has been a few years since my '04 Corolla has had anything done with the fluid in the radiator. My 1st mistake was going to the store & purchasing what I though I needed after speaking w/the store clerk (Prestone Dex-Cool extended life/Prestone Super radiator cleaner/& Bar's Leak Radiator&Heater Core Stop leak w/extreme cool). I came home and began searching the net to make sure that I was going to do this the proper way & not just rely on what the bottle said when I ran onto your site (thank God I did before I started anything and really messed things up!!)
My first question is the Super cleaner said I should drain the fluid & replace it with the cleaner & H2O & then run it for 3-6 hrs normal driving/drain replace w/H2O run w/heater on high for 10 min/drain & replace w/coolant & H2O. If I do this will it hurt my car. Second, I'm getting a lot of mixed answers on whether or not I can use the Prestone w/Dex-Cool in my Toyota Corolla. Is it okay or should I use something else. About the only thing I know for sure is to make sure I use distilled H2O when I replace the fluid. Thank you for any help you can give me I really appreciate it & sorry about the long post

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#3000443 - 05/13/13 01:59 AM Re: How do I flush the radiator in my 04 Corolla [Re: Apeiria]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17626
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
First of all, have you ever allowed anyone to service the coolant in your vehicle? If not, then it should still have the proper Genuine Toyota Super Long Life Coolant in the system (light pink color).

The Toyota Super Long Life Coolant does not require replacement until 10-yr or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first. Subsequent replacements are done at a 5-yr or 50,000 mile interval, whichever comes first. Please reference the manual here:

http://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/...mai/04e1smt.pdf

Although you did not mention the vehicle's mileage, it can be assumed that a 2004 will be in need of coolant replacement soon. So, confirm the mileage for us.

If someone has previously serviced the coolant with something other than Toyota Super Long Life Coolant, then it's a whole different story.

However, when it comes time to service the coolant, there is no need to use chemicals or an aftermarket coolant. Just drain and refill the coolant with the proper Toyota Super Long Life 50/50 premix - it only costs about $20/gal at the dealer and you should purchase two gallons.

This is the proper way to service your engine's cooling system; there is no need to "flush" the system....there is no such procedure in the factory service manual for routine coolant service.

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#3000455 - 05/13/13 03:11 AM Re: How do I flush the radiator in my 04 Corolla [Re: The Critic]
Kuato Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2937
Loc: Northeastern MT
Originally Posted By: The Critic
First of all, have you ever allowed anyone to service the coolant in your vehicle? If not, then it should still have the proper Genuine Toyota Super Long Life Coolant in the system (light pink color).

The Toyota Super Long Life Coolant does not require replacement until 10-yr or 100,000 miles,


No need for a lecture; this '04 is coming up on 10 years since it was built, so it's time to change the fluid.

I agree that there's no need for additives other than coolant, as long as there are no leaks and the radiator is cooling the engine satisfactorily.

I can't say if the DexCool is the right fluid for your Toyota, but since there are so many bad posts on DexCool here on the forum I'd recommend against it. IMHO time to return all that stuff to where you bought it, and check your owner's manual for the recommended type fluid.
_________________________
04 Jeep Wrangler 2.4, 4.10, MT 183k
13 F150 4x4, Heavy Payload package 3.73, 5.0, 22k

both on Amsoil

Common sense isn't common any more. Is it.

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#3000493 - 05/13/13 06:14 AM Re: How do I flush the radiator in my 04 Corolla [Re: Apeiria]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 5070
Loc: MA
Your 04 Corolla uses Toyota Long Life (Red) coolant. The Super Long life (Pink) coolant was not used until 05+. Toyota Red LLC is sold as concentrate meaning it has to be mixed 50/50 with distilled water prior to use. Once you do that, you have 2 gallons of coolant to use. It makes Toyota Red 1/2 the cost per gallon as the the Pink coolant.

Toyota has specific requirements for coolant. No 2-eha (dex-cool). No silicate (some HOATs like G-05, green, etc). As stated above, your Toyota uses the Red LLC coolant concentrate. Once diluted 50/50 with distilled water from the grocery store, the cost per gallon will be approx $15. There is an alternative coolant sold at Napa called "Zerex Asian Vehicle Antifreeze/Coolant". Its premixed, also $15 a gallon.

Sticking with the requirements will allow you to perform a simple drain and fill. A drain and fill on a Toyota is as easy as changing the oil. It will get 90% of the coolant and will be good for 60k. The drain will be approx 4qts + the drain, clean and fill of the coolant expansion tank. A flush is not required because of the coolant Toyota uses. There is no heavy silicate, no 2-eha sludge to flush from the system.

Locate the hand tight plastic radiator drain plug located at the bottom right of the radiator. The radiator has a drain funnel. So your only going to loosen the drain plug until coolant flows, you will not fully remove it. Not fully removing the drain plug will force the coolant down the funnel into a waiting container rather than splash all over the place. Takes about 15 mins to drain. I go straight to a container like a plastic milk jug. That will require jacking the car up slightly to make room for the jug. But you can use your oil drain pan if you want.

The procedure is simple. Open the radiator cap, loosen (but don't remove) the radiator drain plug, let the coolant out into your container of choice. The container should be 4qts or more otherwise you need to monitor drain to change containers to prevent spill.

While its draining remove and clean the expansion tank and its cap in the sink. Put it back on and fill to the full line with coolant.

When the radiator has finished draining close the hand tight drain plug. Refill the radiator till its full. Important step Here. Your going to start the car with the radiator cap off to "burp" the air out of the system. Keep the cap in your hand ready to put back on. Start the car. add coolant if necessary. As the engine begins to warm, the coolant will expand and begin to rise. Just before the coolant begins to overflow, put the radiator cap back on. Now that the radiator cap is back on let the car run until the temp gauge rises to the middle and stabilizes via thermostat opening. In a day or so top off the expansion tank. The system may draw some additional coolant in which is normal. After that expect some minor coolant loss which is normal.

I prefer buying the Toyota Red LLC not only because I think its a good coolant, but because I end up with 2 gallons after the mix. This allows me to top off the expansion tank between 50-60k drain and fills.
_________________________
02 Camry XLE 2AZ-FE 305k M1 HM 5w30, 9k OCI.
13 Malibu 9k unknown..

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#3000501 - 05/13/13 06:24 AM Re: How do I flush the radiator in my 04 Corolla [Re: Apeiria]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 5070
Loc: MA
One more note: you cant judge the condition of the coolant by the expansion tank. The coolant in the expansion tank is exposed to air and contains any nasty junk pushed out by the system when it expands. The tank may look terrible while the coolant in the radiator is in decent shape. so rather than just top off, I recommend you clean and refill the expansion tank a few times over 60k to prevent the junk from reentering the system. Keeps the coolant cleaner long term, with some minor replenishment. A good time to do this is when its low.
_________________________
02 Camry XLE 2AZ-FE 305k M1 HM 5w30, 9k OCI.
13 Malibu 9k unknown..

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#3000528 - 05/13/13 06:50 AM Re: How do I flush the radiator in my 04 Corolla [Re: Apeiria]
KrisZ Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4242
Loc: Toronto, Canada
First order of business!

welcome



As far as coolant change goes, you are on the right path. Return Dex-cool and buy Toyota coolant. I'm sure that the dealer can figure out if it's Red or Pink, so I would not worry too much about it.

As Critic mentioned, if the coolant system was never topped off with any other coolant, but Toyota’s, then all you need to do is a radiator drain and fill, which usually takes 1 gallon of coolant.

If you don't know if another coolant type was used then I would do one of two things:
1. Do about 4 radiator drain and fills with distilled water to flush out most of the old coolant. You have to warm up the car after each drain and fill to allow the coolant to mix with water. Then fill the system with full concentrated coolant.

2. Just drain the radiator and fill with Toyota 50/50 mix coolant, but stick to 2-3 year coolant drain and fill procedure afterwards.
_________________________
2006 Mazda3 2.0 - 190,000 Km
2003 Ford Focus ZX5 2.0 Zetec - 160,000Km
Both on good old dino juice smile

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#3000544 - 05/13/13 07:14 AM Re: How do I flush the radiator in my 04 Corolla [Re: Apeiria]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 5070
Loc: MA
Per Toyota the Red LLC and the Pink SLLC are forward and backward compatible. Be warned, Pink SLLC costs approx 2X more than Red LLC.
_________________________
02 Camry XLE 2AZ-FE 305k M1 HM 5w30, 9k OCI.
13 Malibu 9k unknown..

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#3000562 - 05/13/13 07:51 AM Re: How do I flush the radiator in my 04 Corolla [Re: Apeiria]
Eosyn Offline


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 357
Loc: Michigan
welcome to BITOG forums, Apeiria. These guys here really know their stuff and they've helped me a plenty with the maintenance that I can do on my own, saving me $$$$ in labor costs.

Thanks for bringing up this topic because I need their "know-how" also. I own a 2005 Corolla LE and hope the drain plug isn't that different from you '04. Best of luck!

LeakySeals, thanks a bunch for the detailed instructions, thumbsup
_________________________
05 Toyota Corolla LE: 98k, Maxlife Silver Bottle/Napa gold filter.
02 Toyota Celica GT: 147k, Maxlife Silver Bottle/Napa gold filter.

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#3000601 - 05/13/13 08:48 AM Re: How do I flush the radiator in my 04 Corolla [Re: Apeiria]
cat843 Offline


Registered: 04/09/13
Posts: 199
Loc: CT
You should not need to flush. Just drain & fill with Zerex Asian coolant. You will be fine. These days the whole issue of a crudded up cooling system just does not happen unless you got air into a GM system. Maybe do the drain and fill 2X, then every other year. It exchanges about 50% of the coolant.

Coolant is toxic to fish & animals if they drink it. Getting it on your hands is not a problem.

Avoid the all makes/all models coolant.

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#3000649 - 05/13/13 09:40 AM Re: How do I flush the radiator in my 04 Corolla [Re: LeakySeals]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17626
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Your 04 Corolla uses Toyota Long Life (Red) coolant. The Super Long life (Pink) coolant was not used until 05+. Toyota Red LLC is sold as concentrate meaning it has to be mixed 50/50 with distilled water prior to use. Once you do that, you have 2 gallons of coolant to use. It makes Toyota Red 1/2 the cost per gallon as the the Pink coolant.


This is NOT correct - the 2004 Corolla uses Super Long Life. See the owner's manual I linked back in my post - it clearly states that the 2004 Toyota is now using Super Long Life, and states so explicitly in the footnotes.

Also, per the TSB, the Super Long Life started going into Japan-Built Corollas as early as 2003:

http://www.toyotapart.com/ENGINE_COOLANT_COLOR_CHANGE_T-PG010-02.pdf

As for bleeding, purchasing a coolant funnel is really your best bet. This is a good video on how to bleed the cooling system:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUpXgAJ1gjU

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Per Toyota the Red LLC and the Pink SLLC are forward and backward compatible. Be warned, Pink SLLC costs approx 2X more than Red LLC.


This is true. However, if you put Super Long Life Pink in a car that originally called for Red, you are still bound to the 30k intervals, not the extended intervals. So, I see no reason to use the SLLC.

Lastly, I see absolutely no reason to use the aftermarket Zerex Asian coolant when the Toyota Super Long Life Coolant is easily available for a reasonable price. There's no evidence to prove that the Zerex Asian meets/exceeds Toyota's proprietary fluid (other than Zerex's word), and it is simply silly to try and save $10 on something that is done so infrequently.

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#3000878 - 05/13/13 12:59 PM Re: How do I flush the radiator in my 04 Corolla [Re: The Critic]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 5070
Loc: MA
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Your 04 Corolla uses Toyota Long Life (Red) coolant. The Super Long life (Pink) coolant was not used until 05+. Toyota Red LLC is sold as concentrate meaning it has to be mixed 50/50 with distilled water prior to use. Once you do that, you have 2 gallons of coolant to use. It makes Toyota Red 1/2 the cost per gallon as the the Pink coolant.


This is NOT correct - the 2004 Corolla uses Super Long Life. See the owner's manual I linked back in my post - it clearly states that the 2004 Toyota is now using Super Long Life, and states so explicitly in the footnotes.

Also, per the TSB, the Super Long Life started going into Japan-Built Corollas as early as 2003:

http://www.toyotapart.com/ENGINE_COOLANT_COLOR_CHANGE_T-PG010-02.pdf

As for bleeding, purchasing a coolant funnel is really your best bet. This is a good video on how to bleed the cooling system:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUpXgAJ1gjU

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Per Toyota the Red LLC and the Pink SLLC are forward and backward compatible. Be warned, Pink SLLC costs approx 2X more than Red LLC.


This is true. However, if you put Super Long Life Pink in a car that originally called for Red, you are still bound to the 30k intervals, not the extended intervals. So, I see no reason to use the SLLC.

Lastly, I see absolutely no reason to use the aftermarket Zerex Asian coolant when the Toyota Super Long Life Coolant is easily available for a reasonable price. There's no evidence to prove that the Zerex Asian meets/exceeds Toyota's proprietary fluid (other than Zerex's word), and it is simply silly to try and save $10 on something that is done so infrequently.

I've never seen a document or heard of anyone claiming the Toyota Long Life (Red) service interval is as short as silicate (30k) till now. Long time user of Red here, I know its not the case. Moving on, I don't see anything that mentions Coolant type by name in your "Scheduled Maintenance Guide" link. I see:

2004 Corolla 100,000 Miles - 120 Months

Replace engine coolant 2

2) Initial replacement at 100,000 miles/120 months. Replace every 50,000 miles/60 months thereafter. See Maintenance Definitions (Engine Coolant) for details.
----
I recommended to drain and fill Toyota LLC (Red) at 50-60k intervals which is the subsequent interval specified above. What I've been doing for years, IMO thats just right. Lets go check the "Specifications Manual" to be sure which coolant.

From page 253 -

COOLING SYSTEM
Total capacity, L (qt., Imp. qt.):
6.5 (6.9, 5.7)
Coolant type:
“Toyota Genuine Long Life Coolant” is
filled in your Toyota vehicle. In order to
avoid technical problems, we strongly
recommend using “Toyota Genuine Long
Life Coolant” or equivalent.
With ethylene−glycol type coolant for a
proper corrosion protection of aluminum
components
Do not use alcohol type antifreeze or
plain water alone.
Please contact your Toyota dealer for
further details.

Toyota Genuine Long Life Coolant = Toyota LLC (AKA Red).

http://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om/OM12859U/pdf/8.pdf

I've never had to bleed a Toyota of any make other than the way I described. Zerex Asian is the exact clone of Toyota Red, widely used in the Toyota world.

Would appear we disagree on pretty much everything here. So its probably best we let it go now. grin
_________________________
02 Camry XLE 2AZ-FE 305k M1 HM 5w30, 9k OCI.
13 Malibu 9k unknown..

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#3000898 - 05/13/13 01:17 PM Re: How do I flush the radiator in my 04 Corolla [Re: Apeiria]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17626
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
[I've never seen a document or heard of anyone claiming the Toyota Long Life (Red) service interval is the same as silicate (30k) till now. Long time user of Red here, I know its not the case. Moving on, I don't see anything that mentions Coolant type by name in your "Scheduled Maintenance Guide" link. I see:

2004 Corolla 100,000 Miles - 120 Months

Replace engine coolant 2

2) Initial replacement at 100,000 miles/120 months. Replace every 50,000 miles/60 months thereafter. See Maintenance Definitions (Engine Coolant) for details.

Ok.. Lets go check the "Specifications Manual".

From page 253 -

COOLING SYSTEM
Total capacity, L (qt., Imp. qt.):
6.5 (6.9, 5.7)
Coolant type:
“Toyota Genuine Long Life Coolant” is
filled in your Toyota vehicle. In order to
avoid technical problems, we strongly
recommend using “Toyota Genuine Long
Life Coolant” or equivalent.
With ethylene−glycol type coolant for a
proper corrosion protection of aluminum
components
Do not use alcohol type antifreeze or
plain water alone.
Please contact your Toyota dealer for
further details.

Toyota Genuine Long Life Coolant = Toyota LLC (AKA Red).

http://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om/OM12859U/pdf/8.pdf


The interval for Long Life Red is LESS than Super Long Life Coolant. If the manual calls for the 100k initial change and 50k subsequent change interval, then the coolant spec-ed is SLLC. It was likely an error in the manual because some of the Corollas may have still been filled with Toyota Red and not the pink SLLC. You can ask any dealership and they can confirm that the interval for Toyota Red is significantly shorter than SLLC.

Here is one document from a Prius manual which clearly illustrates the difference in the interval between Red and Pink.

Quote:
SLLC is pre-mixed (50% coolant and 50% distilled water), so no dilution is needed when adding or
replacing SLLC in the vehicle.
_ If LLC is mixed with SLLC, the interval for LLC (every 25,000 miles / 40,000 km or 24 months) should
be used.

_ You can also apply the new maintenance interval (every 50,000 miles/ 80,000 km) to vehicles initially
filled with LLC (red-colored), if you use SLLC (pink-colored) for the engine coolant change.

Note: I guess for certain models it is OK to use the longer SLLC interval if you find a way to replace all of the Toyota Red LLC with the pink SLLC, but good luck doing so without a coolant exchange machine.

http://share.qclt.com/%E4%B8%B0%E7%94%B0...n/eg/1nzfe1.pdf

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I've never had to bleed a Toyota of any brand other than the way I described. Zerex Asian is the exact clone of Toyota Red, widely used in the Toyota world.


Well I’m glad that your incorrect service procedure has worked for you, but you are truly doing a disservice to other members by portraying that it is the correct way to service a cooling system, when it is not. There are obviously many risks to an improperly bled cooling system. If you do not allow the engine to idle until the thermostat opens (as evident by the change in coolant level within the coolant funnel), there is no guarantee that you would have removed all of the air pockets.

Also, Zerex Asian is a “clone” of Toyota Red according to Zerex. There has been no formal OEM approval of the product. In other words, you’re taking the supplier’s word for it – you need to make that fact clear to a new member who may not be as familiar with the pros/cons of an unapproved product.

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Would appear we disagree on pretty much everything here. So its probably best we let it go now.


I don’t think we are disputing opinions here, we are disputing facts (more so than not).

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#3000903 - 05/13/13 01:21 PM Re: How do I flush the radiator in my 04 Corolla [Re: Apeiria]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 5070
Loc: MA
PS.. I mentioned that you would get 90% of the old coolant with a drain and fill. Looking at the coolant capacity above, its more like 80%.
_________________________
02 Camry XLE 2AZ-FE 305k M1 HM 5w30, 9k OCI.
13 Malibu 9k unknown..

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#3000946 - 05/13/13 01:48 PM Re: How do I flush the radiator in my 04 Corolla [Re: The Critic]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 5070
Loc: MA
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
[I've never seen a document or heard of anyone claiming the Toyota Long Life (Red) service interval is the same as silicate (30k) till now. Long time user of Red here, I know its not the case. Moving on, I don't see anything that mentions Coolant type by name in your "Scheduled Maintenance Guide" link. I see:

2004 Corolla 100,000 Miles - 120 Months

Replace engine coolant 2

2) Initial replacement at 100,000 miles/120 months. Replace every 50,000 miles/60 months thereafter. See Maintenance Definitions (Engine Coolant) for details.

Ok.. Lets go check the "Specifications Manual".

From page 253 -

COOLING SYSTEM
Total capacity, L (qt., Imp. qt.):
6.5 (6.9, 5.7)
Coolant type:
“Toyota Genuine Long Life Coolant” is
filled in your Toyota vehicle. In order to
avoid technical problems, we strongly
recommend using “Toyota Genuine Long
Life Coolant” or equivalent.
With ethylene−glycol type coolant for a
proper corrosion protection of aluminum
components
Do not use alcohol type antifreeze or
plain water alone.
Please contact your Toyota dealer for
further details.

Toyota Genuine Long Life Coolant = Toyota LLC (AKA Red).

http://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om/OM12859U/pdf/8.pdf


The interval for Long Life Red is LESS than Super Long Life Coolant. If the manual calls for the 100k initial change and 50k subsequent change interval, then the coolant spec-ed is SLLC. It was likely an error in the manual because some of the Corollas may have still been filled with Toyota Red and not the pink SLLC. You can ask any dealership and they can confirm that the interval for Toyota Red is significantly shorter than SLLC.

Here is one document from a Prius manual which clearly illustrates the difference in the interval between Red and Pink.

Quote:
SLLC is pre-mixed (50% coolant and 50% distilled water), so no dilution is needed when adding or
replacing SLLC in the vehicle.
_ If LLC is mixed with SLLC, the interval for LLC (every 25,000 miles / 40,000 km or 24 months) should
be used.

_ You can also apply the new maintenance interval (every 50,000 miles/ 80,000 km) to vehicles initially
filled with LLC (red-colored), if you use SLLC (pink-colored) for the engine coolant change.

Note: I guess for certain models it is OK to use the longer SLLC interval if you find a way to replace all of the Toyota Red LLC with the pink SLLC, but good luck doing so without a coolant exchange machine.

http://share.qclt.com/%E4%B8%B0%E7%94%B0...n/eg/1nzfe1.pdf

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I've never had to bleed a Toyota of any brand other than the way I described. Zerex Asian is the exact clone of Toyota Red, widely used in the Toyota world.


Well I’m glad that your incorrect service procedure has worked for you, but you are truly doing a disservice to other members by portraying that it is the correct way to service a cooling system, when it is not. There are obviously many risks to an improperly bled cooling system. If you do not allow the engine to idle until the thermostat opens (as evident by the change in coolant level within the coolant funnel), there is no guarantee that you would have removed all of the air pockets.

Also, Zerex Asian is a “clone” of Toyota Red according to Zerex. There has been no formal OEM approval of the product. In other words, you’re taking the supplier’s word for it – you need to make that fact clear to a new member who may not be as familiar with the pros/cons of an unapproved product.

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Would appear we disagree on pretty much everything here. So its probably best we let it go now.


I don’t think we are disputing opinions here, we are disputing facts (more so than not).

I've been DIYing Toyotas for years, spend the time to share with the OP, and I'm told its a disservice. Gotta love BITOG. Anyways you can't use service intervals to determine the type of coolant. Different models can run different intervals with the same coolant. Have to go by the name of the coolant listed in the manual. I provided that fact. Enough squabbling, the OP needs to tell us what he see in the expansion tank. If its Pink it will be obvious. If its Red it wont look perfectly red because its old and contaminated. Will look "rusty red".
_________________________
02 Camry XLE 2AZ-FE 305k M1 HM 5w30, 9k OCI.
13 Malibu 9k unknown..

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#3000966 - 05/13/13 02:18 PM Re: How do I flush the radiator in my 04 Corolla [Re: Apeiria]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 5070
Loc: MA
If anyone is interested here is a side by side MSDS comparison:

Zerex Asian Vehicle Antifreeze/Coolant (50/50 premix)
http://www.canyonstateoil.com/msds-sheets/Valvoline/ZEREX_ASIAN_VEHICLE_AFC_RTU_6_1_GA.PDF

Toyota Long Life Coolant (concentrate, needs water before use)
http://www.worldpac.com/tagged/Antifreeze-Coolant_002721LLAC.pdf
_________________________
02 Camry XLE 2AZ-FE 305k M1 HM 5w30, 9k OCI.
13 Malibu 9k unknown..

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