Do you really need any thicker than 0W-20?
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Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
That's quite a jump in viscosity from a 0W-20 to a 15W-40.
Well, as I argued, there is hardly any change from 0W-20 to 5W-30. 10W-30 is only slightly thicker. Thick really starts at 10W-40 (or 0W-40/5W-40). 15W-40 is quite a bit thicker and it would be a good comparison. I also already have a jug of 15W-40. Not for until two more oil changes or so though...
That's quite a jump in viscosity from a 0W-20 to a 15W-40.
Well, as I argued, there is hardly any change from 0W-20 to 5W-30. 10W-30 is only slightly thicker. Thick really starts at 10W-40 (or 0W-40/5W-40). 15W-40 is quite a bit thicker and it would be a good comparison. I also already have a jug of 15W-40. Not for until two more oil changes or so though...
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
That's quite a jump in viscosity from a 0W-20 to a 15W-40.
Well, as I argued, there is hardly any change from 0W-20 to 5W-30. 10W-30 is only slightly thicker. Thick really starts at 10W-40 (or 0W-40/5W-40). 15W-40 is quite a bit thicker and it would be a good comparison. I also already have a jug of 15W-40. Not for until two more oil changes or so though...
If you want to try a fairly significant change in viscosity then why not try an A3/B4 rated 5W30 over summer. I've been run Castrol Edge A3/B4 over the (southern hemi) summer here. It's pretty thick for a 5W30, 12 cSt @100c and 3.6 HTHS @150C.
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
That's quite a jump in viscosity from a 0W-20 to a 15W-40.
Well, as I argued, there is hardly any change from 0W-20 to 5W-30. 10W-30 is only slightly thicker. Thick really starts at 10W-40 (or 0W-40/5W-40). 15W-40 is quite a bit thicker and it would be a good comparison. I also already have a jug of 15W-40. Not for until two more oil changes or so though...
If you want to try a fairly significant change in viscosity then why not try an A3/B4 rated 5W30 over summer. I've been run Castrol Edge A3/B4 over the (southern hemi) summer here. It's pretty thick for a 5W30, 12 cSt @100c and 3.6 HTHS @150C.
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Yes, very interesting exchange of opinions and it does contribute to further educating us. It doesn't solve the thin vs thick debate though, which I am currently on the fence.
On one hand I want the thinnest oil for my application. On the other hand, I want it thick enough to give adequate protection for my engine. I guess other than the cooling system normalizing the temperature to which oil viscosity is affected, shouldn't we look at ambient temperature as well?
If Gokhan wants to use 15W-40 for his car, I would say it's doable since he lives in a warm climate. But, this would not be advisable for a colder climate like Canada or winter in NA.
Ambient temperature under the hood of the car at -32f is very different from 70f, and that has to affect engine temperature that's not reached by the coolant, which then affects oil viscosity. So, thicker would be better in warmer climates than colder ones given the specified ranges in the owners manual. My point is, shouldn't we just follow those ranges given that the engine was built for such tolerance? Also, perhaps the thick vs thin debate overshadows the tight vs loose characteristics of an engine to which we should be paying more attention to in deciding oil viscosity among other things.
On one hand I want the thinnest oil for my application. On the other hand, I want it thick enough to give adequate protection for my engine. I guess other than the cooling system normalizing the temperature to which oil viscosity is affected, shouldn't we look at ambient temperature as well?
If Gokhan wants to use 15W-40 for his car, I would say it's doable since he lives in a warm climate. But, this would not be advisable for a colder climate like Canada or winter in NA.
Ambient temperature under the hood of the car at -32f is very different from 70f, and that has to affect engine temperature that's not reached by the coolant, which then affects oil viscosity. So, thicker would be better in warmer climates than colder ones given the specified ranges in the owners manual. My point is, shouldn't we just follow those ranges given that the engine was built for such tolerance? Also, perhaps the thick vs thin debate overshadows the tight vs loose characteristics of an engine to which we should be paying more attention to in deciding oil viscosity among other things.
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Originally Posted By: gregoron
Ambient temperature under the hood of the car at -32f is very different from 70f, and that has to affect engine temperature that's not reached by the coolant, which then affects oil viscosity. So, thicker would be better in warmer climates than colder ones given the specified ranges in the owners manual.
My take on this is that oils have got better, particularly in viscosity index and additives for protection under boundary layer operation. So in general thinner oils are becoming more applicable, but I totally agree that temperature is still a factor. After all, where I live it's rarely colder than +50F when and where I drive (and under +40F only a few days per year and under 32F never). I run what would be considered a very thick oil by many peoples standards here (see my previous post) and I'm averaging 55MPG (2005 Prius). So instead of the question "do you really need any thicker than 0W20" surely I would be justified in asking "do I really need anything thinner?
Ambient temperature under the hood of the car at -32f is very different from 70f, and that has to affect engine temperature that's not reached by the coolant, which then affects oil viscosity. So, thicker would be better in warmer climates than colder ones given the specified ranges in the owners manual.
My take on this is that oils have got better, particularly in viscosity index and additives for protection under boundary layer operation. So in general thinner oils are becoming more applicable, but I totally agree that temperature is still a factor. After all, where I live it's rarely colder than +50F when and where I drive (and under +40F only a few days per year and under 32F never). I run what would be considered a very thick oil by many peoples standards here (see my previous post) and I'm averaging 55MPG (2005 Prius). So instead of the question "do you really need any thicker than 0W20" surely I would be justified in asking "do I really need anything thinner?
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Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I guess with my chromium value being high (5 ppm, even though it could be due to contamination during sampling), I wouldn't be able to draw a definite conclusion on adequacy of 0W-20 for my engine. Current fill is Toyota 0W-20 SN also. Perhaps I should go back to Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 for the next fill (I still have a jug) and have a UOA comparison. I might wait for another fill just to eliminate contamination concerns though. Thick vs. thin is certainly an unresolved debate.
Sounds like a plan to me, just wait for the second fill of Super 15W-40 so there is no contamination. Also if at all possible try and do the second run of 15W40 during the same time of the year as you took the 0W20 sample. Seems like a lot of work, but I think your sample would be a fair representation if done that way.
I guess with my chromium value being high (5 ppm, even though it could be due to contamination during sampling), I wouldn't be able to draw a definite conclusion on adequacy of 0W-20 for my engine. Current fill is Toyota 0W-20 SN also. Perhaps I should go back to Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 for the next fill (I still have a jug) and have a UOA comparison. I might wait for another fill just to eliminate contamination concerns though. Thick vs. thin is certainly an unresolved debate.
Sounds like a plan to me, just wait for the second fill of Super 15W-40 so there is no contamination. Also if at all possible try and do the second run of 15W40 during the same time of the year as you took the 0W20 sample. Seems like a lot of work, but I think your sample would be a fair representation if done that way.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I guess with my chromium value being high (5 ppm, even though it could be due to contamination during sampling), I wouldn't be able to draw a definite conclusion on adequacy of 0W-20 for my engine. Current fill is Toyota 0W-20 SN also. Perhaps I should go back to Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 for the next fill (I still have a jug) and have a UOA comparison. I might wait for another fill just to eliminate contamination concerns though. Thick vs. thin is certainly an unresolved debate.
Does anyone thing this will actually settle this debate? Is anyone here actually deluded enough to think this will prove, once and for all, that one or the other is better? One or two UOAs on one engine is going to do that? If I'd only known it was that simple......
PS- Gokhan... I was not knocking your experiment, just injecting a little sarcasm on some of the reactions to it. No insult intended.
I guess with my chromium value being high (5 ppm, even though it could be due to contamination during sampling), I wouldn't be able to draw a definite conclusion on adequacy of 0W-20 for my engine. Current fill is Toyota 0W-20 SN also. Perhaps I should go back to Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 for the next fill (I still have a jug) and have a UOA comparison. I might wait for another fill just to eliminate contamination concerns though. Thick vs. thin is certainly an unresolved debate.
Does anyone thing this will actually settle this debate? Is anyone here actually deluded enough to think this will prove, once and for all, that one or the other is better? One or two UOAs on one engine is going to do that? If I'd only known it was that simple......
PS- Gokhan... I was not knocking your experiment, just injecting a little sarcasm on some of the reactions to it. No insult intended.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I guess with my chromium value being high (5 ppm, even though it could be due to contamination during sampling), I wouldn't be able to draw a definite conclusion on adequacy of 0W-20 for my engine. Current fill is Toyota 0W-20 SN also. Perhaps I should go back to Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 for the next fill (I still have a jug) and have a UOA comparison. I might wait for another fill just to eliminate contamination concerns though. Thick vs. thin is certainly an unresolved debate.
Does anyone thing this will actually settle this debate? Is anyone here actually deluded enough to think this will prove, once and for all, that one or the other is better? One or two UOAs on one engine is going to do that? If I'd only known it was that simple......
PS- Gokhan... I was not knocking your experiment, just injecting a little sarcasm on some of the reactions to it. No insult intended.
Will it settle it? No way no how, but the results would still be interesting.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I guess with my chromium value being high (5 ppm, even though it could be due to contamination during sampling), I wouldn't be able to draw a definite conclusion on adequacy of 0W-20 for my engine. Current fill is Toyota 0W-20 SN also. Perhaps I should go back to Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 for the next fill (I still have a jug) and have a UOA comparison. I might wait for another fill just to eliminate contamination concerns though. Thick vs. thin is certainly an unresolved debate.
Does anyone thing this will actually settle this debate? Is anyone here actually deluded enough to think this will prove, once and for all, that one or the other is better? One or two UOAs on one engine is going to do that? If I'd only known it was that simple......
PS- Gokhan... I was not knocking your experiment, just injecting a little sarcasm on some of the reactions to it. No insult intended.
Will it settle it? No way no how, but the results would still be interesting.
I have been using 0W and 5W-20 grade motor oils since owning my 1997 Ford Expedition. Since then I have run these oils in several Ferraris, a Lamborghini, our top BHP Bentleys, Maybach (AMG), and now a Rolls-Royce Ghost.
I used a lot of Motorcraft 5W-20, one of my favorite motor oils. I used 0W-20 Mobil 1 in several Ferraris and the Lamborghini. My current favorite is Renewable Lubricants 0W-20. I am running this oil in everything but the Enzo Ferrari. Here I use the 0W-30 RLI though it is spec’ed for a 60 grade oil.
So far no blow-ups and no indications of anything but minimal, below normal, wear levels.
aehaas
I used a lot of Motorcraft 5W-20, one of my favorite motor oils. I used 0W-20 Mobil 1 in several Ferraris and the Lamborghini. My current favorite is Renewable Lubricants 0W-20. I am running this oil in everything but the Enzo Ferrari. Here I use the 0W-30 RLI though it is spec’ed for a 60 grade oil.
So far no blow-ups and no indications of anything but minimal, below normal, wear levels.
aehaas
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