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#297537 - 12/05/05 10:02 PM Is there an additive to help defeat the winter gas blues?
Blue_Goose Offline


Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 1870
Loc: New Hampsha
As far as in helping with the mpg? I seem to stuggle to get even 31 mpg in my Matrix after almost always getting 34-35 mpg earlier in the summer/fall (pre-Katrina)

If I do use an additive such as MMO in my gas, does that show up on a UOA?

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#297538 - 12/05/05 10:47 PM Re: Is there an additive to help defeat the winter gas blues?
Dr. T Offline


Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 2480
FP perhaps?

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#297539 - 12/06/05 01:52 AM Re: Is there an additive to help defeat the winter gas blues?
Fastride95 Offline


Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 115
Loc: Tallahassee, FL
Some people say it does. I use MMO purely as a UCL and to keep the combustion chambers clean. I haven't noticed any benefit to fuel mileage from using it.

An additive may affect a UOA by altering the host oil's properties from possible wash-down past the piston rings into the crankcase. Terry from Dyson Analysis mentioned that Fuel Power from Lube Control actually has a beneficial impact on oil.

Haven't heard about any other fuel additive doing that though there are many UOAs showing that most OTC additives do not negatively impact the oil either, even when used in excessive amounts. Please remember that I'm assuming your engine is in proper operating tune without excessive wear.

I use MMO is such small quantity per fill (6oz) that I doubt it does any harm to the oil.

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#297540 - 12/06/05 04:06 AM Re: Is there an additive to help defeat the winter gas blues?
Rooy Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 44
Loc: Neenah, WI
The problem is the cold weather. You get the most efficient combustion and mpg when the engine is fully warmed up. In this weather, it takes much longer to warm up. Don't see any way around it.

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#297541 - 12/06/05 08:53 AM Re: Is there an additive to help defeat the winter gas blues?
Sid Offline


Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 218
Loc: Chicago
Well isn't it because they change the formulation of the gas to combat the cold weather which in turn gives the consumer worse mileage?

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#297542 - 12/06/05 04:12 PM Re: Is there an additive to help defeat the winter gas blues?
Blue_Goose Offline


Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 1870
Loc: New Hampsha
Could the winter gas and cold weather cause such a drastic drop in mpg? I'm talking about going from a peak of 350-370 miles per tank in the summer/fall to 300-320 if I'm lucky before the low fuel light comes on.

Just seems like a huge dropoff especially for a Toyota engine......and not to mention, I was starting to get this drop in mileage right after Katrina and Rita hit.....thought I read somewhere here that winter blends were released earlier than normal? Or maybe weaker blends in gas quality due to shortages.

Anyones guess right now

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#297543 - 12/06/05 04:30 PM Re: Is there an additive to help defeat the winter gas blues?
Slick17601 Offline


Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 1232
Loc: Pennsylvania
Mothballs! [Patriot]

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#297544 - 12/06/05 06:16 PM Re: Is there an additive to help defeat the winter gas blues?
boxcartommie22 Offline


Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 2979
Loc: moutain country
we are in oxy fuels now from nov to feb 15th.. they put ethanol in our gas.. my milege went from 23mpg to 17mpg and that with using acetone in my gas...the gov. makes no sense whatso ever addinhg this crap to the fuels

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#297545 - 12/06/05 06:25 PM Re: Is there an additive to help defeat the winter gas blues?
Virtuoso Offline


Registered: 02/25/03
Posts: 2622
Loc: Cow town, NE
Even a Toyota engine is going to have to deal with taking longer to warm up, and winter forumlated fuels. Both are bad for gas milage unfortunatly [Frown] I routinely lose 2mpg, or more, in the winter here in NE.

Button up an pray for spring!

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#297546 - 12/06/05 09:43 PM Re: Is there an additive to help defeat the winter gas blues?
glennc Offline


Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 1508
Loc: Colorado
That is correct - it is the car, not the gas (and not just the engine, either).

Oxygenated fuels have slightly less energy content, maybe half a percent to two percent; don't remember exactly. Not enough to make a large difference in mileage.

If you're not going from oxygenated to regular blend and back each year, then you're talking about a "winter blend" that has more highly volatile components to ease cold starting, but essentially the same energy content. No difference in mileage.

But your transaxle is harder to turn, your tires don't want to roll, the air itself is denser and harder for the car to push through, and yes your engine is spending much more time in warm-up with less efficient thermal performance and enriched fuel mixture. It all adds up.

Sorry, it's just basic physics. There's not much you can do about it.

- Glenn

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#297547 - 12/06/05 10:17 PM Re: Is there an additive to help defeat the winter gas blues?
MNgopher Offline


Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2943
Loc: Lakeville, MN
If you are in an area that goes from non-oxy fuel to an oxy fuel in the winter, then yes, some of the fuel mileage difference can be attirbuted to winter gasoline due to the lower energy content of the ethanol often used as an oxygenate.

Most of the decline is not due to lower energy content, but due to all the other cold weather problems with longer warmup times and increased restiance to moving through the entire drivetrain.

I have years of fuel records and they show a nice seasonal variation that corresponds very well with outside temps. If it were due to different blends, there would always be a sharp drop and uptick somewhere in the data, and it ain't there.

Of course, that is all somewhat dependent on your local fuel supply, but as ours is 10% ethanol year around, its a non-factor.

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#297548 - 12/06/05 10:22 PM Re: Is there an additive to help defeat the winter gas blues?
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 1653
Loc: Illinois
I routinely can choose between 10% ethanol and straight gas year around. There is maybe a 1-2 mpg drop with the booze juice. Certainly not the 23 to 17. Check your tire pressures. They will change dramatically with cold weather changes.

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#297549 - 12/06/05 11:20 PM Re: Is there an additive to help defeat the winter gas blues?
surfstar Offline


Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4320
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
If I look over my 4 years of MPG data in graph form I can see that between Nov-Feb every year the MPG is lower than the other months. This is in CA where "cold" is overnight temps in the 30s and daytime temps of mid 60s. I'd say the winter gas is 1-2 MPG less for me.

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#297550 - 12/07/05 08:21 AM Re: Is there an additive to help defeat the winter gas blues?
Whimsey Offline


Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 3026
Loc: The Garden State
There is a definite difference in mpg when using oxygenated gasoline. I'm in northern NJ and we are forced to use oxygenated gas all year round and an extra dose in the winter. Using this gas I average 16 mpg on long highway trips other than in the winter months. Late last summer I had to go to the Lancaster PA area and return the same day via the same route. My mpg going was 16 mpg on NJ oxygenated gas. I filled up in the "non oxygenated" area for my return trip, which was about a half a tank's worth of gas, and got 21 mpg on the return trip. This is via the same route and with even less stop and go traffic plus it was uphill compared to the 16 mpg leg of the trip.

Oxygenated gasoline was originally formulated for carburated vehicles. Today's fuel injected computer controlled vehicles can compensate for cold weather starts and runs unlike the old carburated vehicles. For the life of me I can't understand how burning more fuel in a modern fuel injected computer controlled vehicle is GOOD THE THE ENVIROMENT!

Whimsey

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#297551 - 12/08/05 04:49 AM Re: Is there an additive to help defeat the winter gas blues?
JK Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 421
Loc: WI
"I routinely can choose between 10% ethanol and straight gas year around. There is maybe a 1-2 mpg drop with the booze juice. Certainly not the 23 to 17. Check your tire pressures. They will change dramatically with cold weather changes."


is your engine a flex-fuel engine?

i find that the mileage drop isn't as noticeable if the engine was designed to run on an ethanol mixture.

i notice a huge difference in my 92 4.0.....it wasn't made to run on Ethanol so it isn't as efficent as a flex-fuel engine.

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