Redline 5w30 - 7,250mi/46.5k mi - 2007 Subaru WRX

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gpshumway

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Here's the latest UOA on my WRX. Oil is Redline 5w30, OCI was 7,250 miles. Filter is an OEM Tokyo Roki AA100 with filter magnet.

I've switched to OAI for my UOAs, when you include KV40 and TBN testing they're much cheaper than Blackstone. Comments are equally worthless though. I've stopped doing the particle counts, they just didn't seem very useful. Maybe I'll do another one when I switch to the Purolator Synthetic filter.

The report is flagged as "severe" for oxidation, but this recent VOA of Redline 5w30 shows virgin oxidation of 108, meaning my sample is likely within the margin of error.

The oil actually thickened slightly with use, but maintained it's VI quite well.

Overall I'm very pleased with the report, I'm going to stick to Redline 5w30 at 5k-7.5k intervals. I'm very slightly concerned about the thickening and possible copper corrosion, but not enough to switch oil. I do consider M1 0w40 from time to time though. Current filter is my last AA100.

Enjoy.

OilReport46522miforposting_zps0c8b137e.jpg
 
Their comment regarding TAN exceeding TBN is correct. IIRC, the oil's ability to fight acid build-up is depleted once TAN and TBN cross.

I'd drop the interval to 5K and see where that leaves you.
 
Ester base oils will show high oxidation but not because oxidation is actually that high. Esters have an oxygen in their structure from the get-go, throwing off the oxidation test results.
 
Originally Posted By: steve20
considering all of the moly zinc, phos, and ester base----you really think this is a great report? (seriously)


^^I`m thinking the same thing. Copper is really high. Is RL not protecting the bearings? MUCH cheaper M1 gives lower wear numbers on the WRX uoa`s I`ve seen.
 
It is not a bad report, I think you could get the same or better results with a much cheaper oil such as Rotella 5w40 or M1 0w40. I just am not really impressed with RL 5w20/5w30. I would switch over to one of the lubes I mentioned for a few OCI's and check again.
 
Originally Posted By: gpshumway
Here's the latest UOA on my WRX. Oil is Redline 5w30, OCI was 7,250 miles. Filter is an OEM Tokyo Roki AA100 with filter magnet.

I've switched to OAI for my UOAs, when you include KV40 and TBN testing they're much cheaper than Blackstone. Comments are equally worthless though. I've stopped doing the particle counts, they just didn't seem very useful. Maybe I'll do another one when I switch to the Purolator Synthetic filter.

The report is flagged as "severe" for oxidation, but this recent VOA of Redline 5w30 shows virgin oxidation of 108, meaning my sample is likely within the margin of error.

The oil actually thickened slightly with use, but maintained it's VI quite well.

Overall I'm very pleased with the report, I'm going to stick to Redline 5w30 at 5k-7.5k intervals. I'm very slightly concerned about the thickening and possible copper corrosion, but not enough to switch oil. I do consider M1 0w40 from time to time though. Current filter is my last AA100.

Enjoy.

OilReport46522miforposting_zps0c8b137e.jpg



Redline contains a record amount of Moly and a good dose of Zinc for a normal use oil and that means it's real good for race cars with short OCI's. Unfortunately too much AW and EP additives result in premature failure of detergent and dispersant additives and the potential for longer term sludge or varnish formation. The low TBN and high TAN in this UOA show it might be OK for a 5K mile OCI max only.
There is no set of universal averages provided by this lab, so it's hard to know if the Copper figure is of interest or just oil cooler chemistry with the high acid level.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Their comment regarding TAN exceeding TBN is correct. IIRC, the oil's ability to fight acid build-up is depleted once TAN and TBN cross.

I'd drop the interval to 5K and see where that leaves you.


Not necessarily. Depends on starting TAN and starting TBN.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Their comment regarding TAN exceeding TBN is correct. IIRC, the oil's ability to fight acid build-up is depleted once TAN and TBN cross.

I'd drop the interval to 5K and see where that leaves you.


Not necessarily. Depends on starting TAN and starting TBN.


I'm going from memory here, but that's what I recall Doug saying with respect to having both data points on hand.

For example, my TBN was 7, TAN was 1.6 on a similar length run.
 
You really can't interpret this UOA properly without a VOA. It's not a conventional chemistry.

But I do think copper could be a sign of future problems if not corrected. Was there any visual sign of Cu chunks or grit in the filter or oil drain pan when you were done changing the oil?
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Their comment regarding TAN exceeding TBN is correct. IIRC, the oil's ability to fight acid build-up is depleted once TAN and TBN cross.

I'd drop the interval to 5K and see where that leaves you.

I've seen the results of an old study showing that for diesel engines but I think that with current oils, UOAs are showing that rule is no longer true. I presume it's because of advances in additives and changes in gas and diesel chemistry (sulfur reduction, perhaps). You may find this article interesting: http://www.oil-lab.com/downloads/TBN-1.pdf

I used to own an STI and settled on using Mobil 1 0W-40 and I recommend it for this application, especially considering the OP's northerly location.
 
Equally worthless comments? This is better than "you have a great wearing Subaru, keep an eye on copper, and try 10,000 miles next time".
lol.gif


Remind me. I know you've run RL before but did you run it on the last oci? Wondering how many consecutive runs you've done. Also, did the 2007 WRX get the oil cooler? I know they stopped adding them somewhere along the line.

-Dennis
 
Here's a couple of past BITOG threads (both very informative) on TAN/TBN that include comments from die meister Doug Hillary. If I understand all the back and forth in these threads, the TAN/TBN in this report is OK.
 
The car has an oil cooler, there are no bronze bushings in the engine, so my minor concern over copper corrosion is restricted to the cooler itself, and related to the oil's high levels of Moly. Even some conventional (non-ester) formulations show high copper readings in these cars. That's the part of OAI's comments I do believe (that it's just leeching).

Their comments on oxidation and needing to know the lubricant annoy me. First, I told them the lubricant, second A_Harman's Polaris VOA of this oil shows oxidation at 108, which should give them all the info they need to interpret it correctly. i.e. - The oxidation is NOT severe.

The virgin TBN of this oil is only 8.0-8.5, so having 2.9 left at 7,250 miles is pretty darn good, especially considering I did much more short-trip driving on this fill than I normally do.

This is the third run on Redline, and the longest by 2,500 miles. Last run was 0w30 run before that was 5w30. UOAs should be around here someplace, if not NASIOC has them, same username.

m6pwr's links are good for GRP II/III/PAO oils, but GRP V play by different rules, see these links:

On Oxidation and Grp V
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=76551

On Grp V oils and TAN:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1583780

Cliff's notes: High TAN and TBN coexist just fine in Grp V oils, the acids produced are organic fatty acids and not highly corrosive, in fact some act as corrosion inhibitors.
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: steve20
considering all of the moly zinc, phos, and ester base----you really think this is a great report? (seriously)


^^I`m thinking the same thing. Copper is really high. Is RL not protecting the bearings? MUCH cheaper M1 gives lower wear numbers on the WRX uoa`s I`ve seen.


Yea, M1 is great for the "wear" you can measure in a UOA, right up to the point you spin a rod bearing because it's sheared to 5w20.

For the second time, the copper is NOT wear!
 
Originally Posted By: gpshumway
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: steve20
considering all of the moly zinc, phos, and ester base----you really think this is a great report? (seriously)


^^I`m thinking the same thing. Copper is really high. Is RL not protecting the bearings? MUCH cheaper M1 gives lower wear numbers on the WRX uoa`s I`ve seen.


Yea, M1 is great for the "wear" you can measure in a UOA, right up to the point you spin a rod bearing because it's sheared to 5w20.

For the second time, the copper is NOT wear!


Read the BOITG uoa faq. Says lead and copper #s come from bearing wear.
 
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