Should I continue on 30K ATF Drain / Refills

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Should I continue on 30K ATF Drain / Refills or run it to 50K.

Just passed 100K on a car we had planned to keep past our regular 3-4 period.
ZF tranny - 71141 fluid.

I must have done at least 3, maybe 4 drain/fills. Pan was dropped 1X.
Last 2 were using Amsoil ATF.

What do you guys think. Continue with the 30K bolt drain/refills or stretch it out to 50K.
I don't think it's the fluid that will wear due to time, heat and age.
 
I have found that 50k is a universally safe trans oil flush interval in almost every vehicle out there. The exception the GM 4L60 transmissions with DexIII that I would do every 30k. If you are using synthetic then 50k should be fine.
 
Originally Posted By: The_Jake
I have found that 50k is a universally safe trans oil flush interval in almost every vehicle out there. The exception the GM 4L60 transmissions with DexIII that I would do every 30k. If you are using synthetic then 50k should be fine.



Ditto.

If your changing ATF every 30K you don't need to spend more on synthetic....
 
The car is getting a bit long legged. May another year as a keeper - then I'm giving it to my brother.

I'm the OCD type that will replace even a rocker trim if I see a scratch....so suffice to say, she's pretty MINT for a car turning 10 years old.

The fluid changes were done often as the tranny was known to go out . Whether or not it's due to lack of fluid changes or just pure mechanics, it's a hit or miss with the tranny.

I think it makes sense as a one time to do a full flush but that get's pricey at 10-14 liters at $16 per liter.
 
What type of car is it? Does it have a trans cooler?

On the Cherokee, I try to do it every other oil change or in the fall. Granted, I use that pretty harsh but I try to keep it good!

$15 a year is cheap insurance!
 
Well then do a 2 drain/fill regimen to give you a higher % of new fluid. Do 1 DF then drive it around for 5 miles and do the second. That will give you at least 60% new fluid in most transmissions.
 
Originally Posted By: chefwong
The car is getting a bit long legged. May another year as a keeper - then I'm giving it to my brother.


At 100k? You might change your perspective if you run it to 200k and it's still running fine. I know I did. I used to think 100k was boneyard time. Now I am thinking minimum 150k before a trade in. 200k in most of the cars today is easily attainable. Look at the depreciation schedule at 150-200k you are almost getting those miles for free.
 
I'll assume that we are talking about a 5HP19 or something similar to that, so I'll give you my experience.

At 80k miles, I did a pan drop and fill with the filter on my A6 with the factory fluid. No trans problems before, nor any after. I spent $135 on the kit with fluid.

At 130k miles, I did a 3x drain and fill and changed the filter on the first, using MaxLife ATF. Noticable improvement in shift quality and speed.

I'll probably now do 30k drain and fills with MaxLife or Wolf's Head Synthetic, and I expect the trans to last to the point of 250k miles when I decide to get rid of the car.

You're way ahead of where I was by changing earlier that I first did, so if you pick anywhere between 30k and 50k intervals to do one drain and fill you should be set. Also, no need to spend big bucks on the amber colored dealer fluid. The aftermarket choices are better.
 
After the first change, unless there is some indication of fluid degradation (via UOA or dark, smelly oil), or a documented history of issues with the fluid, IMO 30K is beyond obsessive. 50K is merely pedantic. ( : < )

If a trans has a history of design "issues" more frequent fluid changes generally won't help unless they are documented to be related to the oil (some ATs do work their oil pretty hard). And then there are contamination issues (see more below), which means that a particular trans prefers to operate with cleaner oil. Diligent research should turn up detailed answers so a person would know how to proceed. I guess it's all moot since the car is going bye-bye, but these things can be evaluated along the way.

As I said, the first change is the most important. Eleftherakis & Kahlil, two engineers who literally wrote the book on auto trans contamination thru decades of research, found that the average automatic generates 75 percent of it's lifetime of contaminants in the first 5K miles. That's the junk built in from manufacturing and from break in. The amount built in is variable according to how good or bad the manufacturing process was. The Japanese and Europeans have been better at clean AT manufacturing over the past 25 years or so, but the Yanks have caught up lately... by necessity, I think. Break in is still an issue.

After break in, the rate of contamination levels off at a greatly reduced rate and the contamination level in the oil increases at a steady rate from normal wear. Contamination rates are often related to the use of the vehicle. Easy use = low rate and vice versa.

The main goal then is to monitor fluid condition and change the oil when either, a) the contamination level rises past about 25 mg/l or, b) the fluid has oxidized or is depleted in some way. In most cases, the contamination level rises past an optimal level before the fluid is depleted (this is an across-the-board, generic statement; there are individual exceptions).

For long term service, some addition trans filtration (beyond the pad in the pan), which will hold the contamination in check so the fluid can live a natural life. If the contamination level is maintained below 25mg/l (the optimal level is below 10 mg/l) then in an easily used trans with a premium fluid, ATF life can indeed be virtually considered "lifetime" in many cases. Certainly 100K.

Determining all these conditions does require extra effort on the part of the owner. For the most part, IMO, if you have a good supplemental filtration system (an inline filter is fine), you could pretty much tell by fluid color but I am pedantic enough to want to do a periodic UOA (every 30K or so) long enough to determine some working guidelines as to the life of the oil. Once I have a basic pattern, then monitoring is unnecessary IMO, until some part of the equation changes (operationally or the oil).
 
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I like to change my ATF about every 20K-30K miles and sometimes will go longer. The ATF always drains out still looking nice and RED causing me to think it's a waste. At the worst, the color is magenta but, never brown.

With the exception of some known trannys that have issues or failures, most trannys can go the distance that most owners keep their vehicles without any ATF fluid changes.

Most folks that I know, own their vehicles around 10 years and never do anything in regards to ATF changes whether it's flushed or just drain/refill.

Those who I know can run in access of 200K without changing the ATF before any failures occure. Not Bad!
 
Originally Posted By: The_Jake
Originally Posted By: chefwong
The car is getting a bit long legged. May another year as a keeper - then I'm giving it to my brother.


At 100k? You might change your perspective if you run it to 200k and it's still running fine. I know I did. I used to think 100k was boneyard time. Now I am thinking minimum 150k before a trade in. 200k in most of the cars today is easily attainable. Look at the depreciation schedule at 150-200k you are almost getting those miles for free.


He drives a X5.
 
Transmissions have come a long way -- with the exception of engineering issues, transmissions just don't fail. Now if you go with the 30K drain and fill regimen all the better, it will never fail on you.!!!
 
There's no way you can simply say 30k miles is best or such. Too many variables involved.

My car calls for 30k miles severe and 60k miles normal service. Those are pretty normal, and tend to work for a lot of folks.

Like JIM said earlier you need to focus a bit more on it when it's newer. It actually needs LESS attention as it ages out...
 
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