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#2869076 - 01/13/13 11:55 AM Re: What is Dexos? And Pennzoil Ultra failed? [Re: Quattro Pete]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9506
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
*Here`s a copy and paste of Pennzoil`s Q and A I found on a Supra forum:*

When was this Q&A prepared?

It must be older they were asking if it will replace PP.
I have seen a bunch of these Q&A over the time its been available but they were all for SM with a NOAK of 11.9 and a pour point of -45c.
The SN has a NOAK of 6.4 and a pour point of -51c. Both numbers are for the 5w30.

The Pearl GTL plant in Qatar was not yet online when PU was first introduced and GTL was not yet being used.

Just going by the numbers we are obviously looking at two completely different oils.
From Shells time line the first shipments of GTL was 13 june 2011 and we didn't see SN PU until early 2012 IIRC.

To me anyway it makes no sense for them to use a HC Grp III for these top tier oils as they build this plant specifically for high grade base stocks inc motor oil.
Even PP has changed in its formulation as of late, it probably getting a hefty dose of GTL also.

http://www.shell.com/global/aboutshell/our-strategy/major-projects-2/pearl/overview.html

Part of the confusion IMO is they put GTL in with Grp 111 and just added a + to it.
People are going to be quick to overlook the +.
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#2869109 - 01/13/13 12:24 PM Re: What is Dexos? And Pennzoil Ultra failed? [Re: pbm]
blackman777 Offline


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 981
Loc: Santa Ana, California
Originally Posted By: pbm
[quote=Quattro Pete]Valvoline and Castrol have chosen not to 'certify' their oils but do state right on the container that they meet or exceed the spec.
Do they list is as "meets Dexos" or some obscure number like GM1999?

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#2869115 - 01/13/13 12:27 PM Re: What is Dexos? And Pennzoil Ultra failed? [Re: blackman777]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25273
Loc: Illinoistan
It'll say "meets the requirements of" or something to that effect.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
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#2869152 - 01/13/13 01:15 PM Re: What is Dexos? And Pennzoil Ultra failed? [Re: Quattro Pete]
blackman777 Offline


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 981
Loc: Santa Ana, California
Meets the requirements of _____. Does it say dexos or some obscure GM1999-type number?

What's the diff between Group 3 and 3+ oil?

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#2869158 - 01/13/13 01:21 PM Re: What is Dexos? And Pennzoil Ultra failed? [Re: blackman777]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25273
Loc: Illinoistan
In case of Castrol Edge spec sheet, it says "meets dexos 1 performance requirements". But since Edge is on the official GM Dexos1 list, I don't understand why they just don't put the logo on the bottle.
_________________________
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#2869159 - 01/13/13 01:24 PM Re: What is Dexos? And Pennzoil Ultra failed? [Re: Quattro Pete]
volk06 Offline


Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 4261
Loc: .
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
In case of Castrol Edge spec sheet, it says "meets dexos 1 performance requirements". But since Edge is on the official GM Dexos1 list, I don't understand why they just don't put the logo on the bottle.


Edge is not on the Dexos1 list for the US, Canada only.
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#2869168 - 01/13/13 01:35 PM Re: What is Dexos? And Pennzoil Ultra failed? [Re: volk06]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25273
Loc: Illinoistan
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
In case of Castrol Edge spec sheet, it says "meets dexos 1 performance requirements". But since Edge is on the official GM Dexos1 list, I don't understand why they just don't put the logo on the bottle.


Edge is not on the Dexos1 list for the US, Canada only.

So what does that mean? Is Canadian Edge different from US Edge? I thought they were the same.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
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#2869335 - 01/13/13 03:50 PM Re: What is Dexos? And Pennzoil Ultra failed? [Re: dave1251]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11181
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Good one!


He he. I think NAPA up here sells it, but given their normal prices on oil and the fact I've never seen them advertise PU on sale, I'm not curious enough to order some. Unfortunately, one of my suppliers use to have a bunch of SOPUS stuff, but he switched to Castrol. I don't need a specialty dealer for that - I can find it anywhere and he won't be able to beat WM or CT anyhow.

@QP and Trav: I think this transcript was from way back, shortly after PU came out, and this was back in the SM days.

@QP: I think the Castrol Edge up here and in the States are identical. The difference is who distributes it. Up here, it's a company called Wakefield, and they have the dexos1 license, not BP per se.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#2869445 - 01/13/13 04:57 PM Re: What is Dexos? And Pennzoil Ultra failed? [Re: Quattro Pete]
volk06 Offline


Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 4261
Loc: .
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
In case of Castrol Edge spec sheet, it says "meets dexos 1 performance requirements". But since Edge is on the official GM Dexos1 list, I don't understand why they just don't put the logo on the bottle.


Edge is not on the Dexos1 list for the US, Canada only.

So what does that mean? Is Canadian Edge different from US Edge? I thought they were the same.


On the dexos list it says Canada only. I'm not sure how or why that is.
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#2871216 - 01/14/13 10:03 PM Re: What is Dexos? And Pennzoil Ultra failed? [Re: blackman777]
dave1251 Offline


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 6935
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
The response from Shell is below

"Dear David,

Thank for your inquiry. Yes our Pennzoil Ultra is a different formulation and yes it uses our Group III base stock as starting material.

Should you need further assistance, please contact 800-BEST-OIL option 32

Regards
Technical Service."

I urge fellow members to contact Shell questions about their products Shell has always been honest with me and will provide information as long as it is not proprietary.
_________________________
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don't use.

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#2871221 - 01/14/13 10:10 PM Re: What is Dexos? And Pennzoil Ultra failed? [Re: blackman777]
Dr_No Offline


Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 1180
Loc: Canada
The new GM cars/truck (2011+) come in to our shop and have in some cases run 20,000km and still have 4% oil life remaining. So i'm going to say extended interval must be a part of their certification. I personally don't believe 100% in the oil life monitor as at the point where the oil is dropped out it is BLACK. The oil they're running is our Dexos approved Valvoline Synpower or the DuraBlend.
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#2871460 - 01/15/13 08:07 AM Re: What is Dexos? And Pennzoil Ultra failed? [Re: Dr_No]
blackman777 Offline


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 981
Loc: Santa Ana, California
Originally Posted By: Dr_No
The new GM cars/truck (2011+) come in to our shop and have in some cases run 20,000km and still have 4% oil life remaining.
So that's 12,000 miles. The problem with the oil life "monitor" is that it assumes the engine is working perfectly. As the engine ages (200,000 miles) it will not be running as clean, and the oil will be getting dirty faster, but the OLM will still be calculating 12,000 miles, even though the oil is full of engine blowby & wore-out at 7000.

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#2871485 - 01/15/13 08:32 AM Re: What is Dexos? And Pennzoil Ultra failed? [Re: blackman777]
Hokiefyd Offline


Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 10959
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: blackman777
So that's 12,000 miles. The problem with the oil life "monitor" is that it assumes the engine is working perfectly. As the engine ages (200,000 miles) it will not be running as clean, and the oil will be getting dirty faster, but the OLM will still be calculating 12,000 miles, even though the oil is full of engine blowby & wore-out at 7000.


Do you know that for a fact? You do know that, for example, the OLM does not take a more conservative approach as the miles pile on? The OLM would certainly know the number of miles on the vehicle, though I suppose you could always find an odd bird, where perhaps an engine got replaced, etc.

I don't know that the OLM does do this, but I don't know that it doesn't, either.
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2008 Honda CR-V
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#2872535 - 01/15/13 11:09 PM Re: What is Dexos? And Pennzoil Ultra failed? [Re: Hokiefyd]
blackman777 Offline


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 981
Loc: Santa Ana, California
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: blackman777
As the engine ages (200,000 miles) it will not be running as clean, and the oil will be getting dirty faster, but the OLM will still be calculating 12,000 miles, even though the oil is full of engine blowby & wore-out at 7000.
Do you know that for a fact? You do know that, for example, the OLM does not take a more conservative approach as the miles pile on?
It might. I have no idea because I've never had one until now.

Not sure how accurate that would be though, because GM might predict the engine is running 90% like new at 200,000 miles when in reality it's more like 50% new and producing lots of dirt to shorten oil life. The "monitor" isn't really a monitor. It's just a calculation based upon certain engineering assumptions that may or may not be correct (and will become less correct as engine age increases).

Just some thoughts.



Edited by blackman777 (01/15/13 11:10 PM)

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#2872562 - 01/15/13 11:49 PM Re: What is Dexos? And Pennzoil Ultra failed? [Re: Nickdfresh]
DevilsRule Offline


Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 102
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Why does Pennzoil Ultra not pass, but lesser oils like Platinum and Gold (blend) do?

Dexos is a money grab for GM. It does not make sense for oil manufacturer to carry the Dexos logo on oil their products, because that just means they'll have to pay more fees to GM.


Why is it anymore of a "money grab" than any of the spec's listed for German cars?

I agree.....it seems that if it were Honda or BMW then it would be ok. GM wanted a superior oil spec for their vehicles. GM is a business.....and businesses want to make money to cover testing and of course for profit. I guess its only ok for foreign manufacturers to obtain profit.
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