Motul Estercore Important Info.

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Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Motul claims 100% for the basestocks, but we know that is basically IMPOSSIBLE for an automotive engine.

Where does Motul claim 100% ester?

-Dennis


This was from their 'tech' at Motul USA (the infamous Joey), not on any PDS.
But of course he threw in the caveat/disclaimer of off limits, "proprietary info" on basestock content/chemistry, so I'm guessing that implies a 'wink-wink' on the actual ester content.
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Originally Posted By: supercity
100% Estercore is on the can. I assume Estercore is Motul's blend of base stocks that will contan some esters.


Have a look again. On one line it says 100% synthetic and the next line says ESTER Core. The blurb on their site says:

"100% synthetic racing motor oil based on ESTER Core® technology."

IMO, I don't think Motul has claimed this oil to be "100% ester based" in print that I recall. I rank this up there with the myth that Mobil1 sued Castrol and a court ruled in favor of Castrol. Now I have seen vendors that have advertised it as being 100% ester based.

Of course, I'm all ears if anyone has data to show otherwise.
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-Dennis
 
Joey has never said 100% ester. In fact, he's said that's not cost effective or even smart, because there are other types of basestocks necessary for certain things to work.

The percentage of ester is largely irrelevant anyways. 300V contains the "most" ester of all their formulas, for what it's worth.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
Joey has never said 100% ester. In fact, he's said that's not cost effective or even smart, because there are other types of basestocks necessary for certain things to work.


^^^This is what I was trying to imply when I said his response was a "wink-wink" type scenario, since we KNOW this is true, but he has to follow his company's marketing protocall/ad copy/etc.
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Someone sent me a message about this. I did not take the time to translate it, but did they determine this through spectral analysis? I'm not so sure that it is possible to determine base stocks by spectral analysis.

What kind of credentials does the person have that is making the statement? Do they work in the oil industry? A member here named Tom has tested oil using Gas Chromatography to determine that an oil was primarily Group III base stocks. He used to work for a company that makes(?) ester base stocks.

-Dennis
 
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Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Someone sent me a message about this. I did not take the time to translate it, but did they determine this through spectral analysis? I'm not so sure that it is possible to determine base stocks by spectral analysis.

What kind of credentials does the person have that is making the statement? Do they work in the oil industry? A member here named Tom has tested oil using Gas Chromatography to determine that an oil was primarily Group III base stocks. He used to work for a company that makes(?) ester base stocks.

-Dennis



Yes, I always thought that (Gas Chromatography) was the ONLY WAY to determine base stock content/makeup, no?
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I've also heard that this test is WAY BEYOND the 'means' of most of us mere middle class mortals/individual citizens NOT working for one of the 'majors'.
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Someone sent me a message about this. I did not take the time to translate it, but did they determine this through spectral analysis? I'm not so sure that it is possible to determine base stocks by spectral analysis.

What kind of credentials does the person have that is making the statement? Do they work in the oil industry? A member here named Tom has tested oil using Gas Chromatography to determine that an oil was primarily Group III base stocks. He used to work for a company that makes(?) ester base stocks.

-Dennis


Yes, they determined the number of esters using spectral analysis.
It is a big fan of oil - they write - "In the wake of 1750 (horizontal axis), we can see the peak, which is responsible for Esther. Acid esters are products of this peak just this show."
http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/index.p...attach_id=9075 - motul 300v 0w-40
http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/index.p...attach_id=8975 - Teboil Diamond 0W-40
http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/index.p...attach_id=8164 - Mobil1 New Life 0W-40, NGN Nord 5W-30, Valvoline Synpower 0W-40
http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/index.p...attach_id=7511 - Addinol, Ravenol, Liqui Moly
 
Originally Posted By: Semantr
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Someone sent me a message about this. I did not take the time to translate it, but did they determine this through spectral analysis? I'm not so sure that it is possible to determine base stocks by spectral analysis.

What kind of credentials does the person have that is making the statement? Do they work in the oil industry? A member here named Tom has tested oil using Gas Chromatography to determine that an oil was primarily Group III base stocks. He used to work for a company that makes(?) ester base stocks.

-Dennis


Yes, they determined the number of esters using spectral analysis.
It is a big fan of oil - they write - "In the wake of 1750 (horizontal axis), we can see the peak, which is responsible for Esther. Acid esters are products of this peak just this show."
http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/index.p...attach_id=9075 - motul 300v 0w-40
http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/index.p...attach_id=8975 - Teboil Diamond 0W-40
http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/index.p...attach_id=8164 - Mobil1 New Life 0W-40, NGN Nord 5W-30, Valvoline Synpower 0W-40
http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/index.p...attach_id=7511 - Addinol, Ravenol, Liqui Moly


The absorbance at wavenumber 1750 is for C=O bond stretching. Esters contain C=O bonds and therefore will absorb there, however, so will any other components containing C=O bonds, such as some additives. Even if the C=O absorbance is strictly from ester base oils, the absorbance at this wavenumber will not identify the amount, type, or number of esters. If you already know which ester(s) is causing the absorbance, then the method can determine the amount through calibration with known quantities of the ester, or methods of addition.

Gas chromatography is the only way to identify and quantify the base oil mix.

Tom NJ
 
Originally Posted By: Semantr
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Someone sent me a message about this. I did not take the time to translate it, but did they determine this through spectral analysis? I'm not so sure that it is possible to determine base stocks by spectral analysis.

What kind of credentials does the person have that is making the statement? Do they work in the oil industry? A member here named Tom has tested oil using Gas Chromatography to determine that an oil was primarily Group III base stocks. He used to work for a company that makes(?) ester base stocks.

-Dennis


Yes, they determined the number of esters using spectral analysis.
It is a big fan of oil - they write - "In the wake of 1750 (horizontal axis), we can see the peak, which is responsible for Esther. Acid esters are products of this peak just this show."
http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/index.p...attach_id=9075 - motul 300v 0w-40
http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/index.p...attach_id=8975 - Teboil Diamond 0W-40
http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/index.p...attach_id=8164 - Mobil1 New Life 0W-40, NGN Nord 5W-30, Valvoline Synpower 0W-40
http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/index.p...attach_id=7511 - Addinol, Ravenol, Liqui Moly




Your links don't work.
 
Originally Posted By: Semantr
Here in Russia, after the test, Motul 300V 0w-40 say that there is very little ester... http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/4825-...920#entry142920
interested in your opinion...


Do you think BITOG is the most appropriate place to spread misinfomation about a top-end lubrication product like Motul 300V Ester Core, which have gained the confidence of so many knowledgeable motorsports specialists and whole-world race enthusists?

This oil is the top-choice of many high-reputable engine shops for many generations, where have you tested it to determine that 300V Ester Core has sooo little ester content? Do you have a lab? As far as I know there are quite a few laboratories in Europe, capable to do such an analysis (I frankly doubt one of them is in Russia), I don't mean to be rude, but I don't like when somebody talks nonsences without knowledge and a real valuable source of information.
 
Originally Posted By: turbokick
Originally Posted By: Semantr
Here in Russia, after the test, Motul 300V 0w-40 say that there is very little ester... http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/4825-...920#entry142920
interested in your opinion...


Do you think BITOG is the most appropriate place to spread misinfomation about a top-end lubrication product like Motul 300V Ester Core, which have gained the confidence of so many knowledgeable motorsports specialists and whole-world race enthusists?


I cannot agree with you. Do you mean old 300V (imho, with esters 30..35%) or new 300V ester core (according to russian tests, with esters 9..11% ONLY)? Nobody is experienced with new 300V Ester Core.

p.s. Use translate.google.com for reading http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/4825-...920#entry142920
 
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You guys are getting too hung up on the ester percentage/type. If it produces good results, who cares?
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
You guys are getting too hung up on the ester percentage/type. If it produces good results, who cares?

01.gif
 
Originally Posted By: turbokick
Originally Posted By: Semantr
Here in Russia, after the test, Motul 300V 0w-40 say that there is very little ester... http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/4825-...920#entry142920
interested in your opinion...


Do you think BITOG is the most appropriate place to spread misinfomation about a top-end lubrication product like Motul 300V Ester Core, which have gained the confidence of so many knowledgeable motorsports specialists and whole-world race enthusists?

This oil is the top-choice of many high-reputable engine shops for many generations, where have you tested it to determine that 300V Ester Core has sooo little ester content? Do you have a lab? As far as I know there are quite a few laboratories in Europe, capable to do such an analysis (I frankly doubt one of them is in Russia), I don't mean to be rude, but I don't like when somebody talks nonsences without knowledge and a real valuable source of information.

I write here is not to argue and carry misinformation, I want to know your opinions on these statements, that Motul 300V 0w-40 little ester!
 
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I haven't used the new series 300V Ester Core of Motul, I have used the ¨old fashioned¨ 300V Competition and I as many others coincide that this is ¨the good stuff¨, I highly doubt that a company like Motul with 160 years of hystory, with the good fame and respect they have gained in the race world (something not so easy to achieve) will lower the level of their products (and 300V is their top series).

What makes me doubt is that if you are not a high-level Motul's employee there's not much probability of knowing the strict products contents, AFAIK it is a company's secret and as I said there are not many places capable to do a 100% thrustworthy analysys to determine the oil's exact content in their exact proportions, at least not in Europe.

I don't need to use google translator because I know something of russian, I know there is much misinformation circulating in the net, many concurrent companies use unfair means to gain territory in the market, spreding incorrect information in the car-forums, in order to make their competence to loose prestige.

If someone came in a engine oil dedicated forum and makes such a statement I would like to know which laboratory has done the research, where is it situated, it's good to share some facts over the matter.
 
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