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#2785484 - 10/27/12 02:30 PM Stick with M1 EP or Try M1 AFE?
john_pifer Offline


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 557
Loc: Nashville, TN via Memphis
Hey, what's up guys.

Been thinking about trying the AFE for my next OC which is due in about 2500 miles.

Vehicle: 07 Tacoma, V6
Miles: 101,500
OEM viscosity recommendation: 5W-30
Current fill: M1 EP 5/30
Current OCI: 7500
Usage: light, little towing/hauling, mostly cruising in 50-70 mph with a few shorter trips per week.

I've owned the truck since new and I've always used M1 of some variety since draining the FF @ 3K, whether standard M1, Truck & SUV variant, or EP.

It's had nothing but EP since about 50-60K. I haven't looked at many UOAs on it, but I think it's a pretty good oil, based on the fact that the truck seems to run well on it, and doesn't use any oil.

I'm going to send a sample to Blackstone next time I drain it.

Anyway, I'd like to hear some opinions. I'm hesitant to switch away from the EP - if it ain't broke why fix it.

Advantages/disadvantages to AFE vs. EP?

Or, if y'all would like to throw out suggestions for any other oils? I've been reading a lot in the VOA and UOA sections and I've become intrigued by some of the oils with very high VI and TBN... Any thoughts on a 0W-20 and the effects or potential negatives with using one of these newer, lighter oils?
_________________________
07 Tacoma (1GR-FE) - M1 EP 5W-30, Fram Ultra
07 Yamaha R1 - Rotella T6 5W-40, Bosch 3300
07 Yamaha YZ-250
02 Yamaha YZ-250
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#2785495 - 10/27/12 02:43 PM Re: Stick with M1 EP or Try M1 AFE? [Re: john_pifer]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7207
Loc: Saskatoon canada
From what I've read on this site mazda's new 0w-20has a very high viscosity index,and really high moly count.
Go to caterham's profile and search his comments. That guy knows this stuff really well. His posts are getting me off my thick is better thinking since he posts fact based on data,not feelings or butt dyno.
Perhaps pm him,or he may even answer in this thread.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
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#2785504 - 10/27/12 02:49 PM Re: Stick with M1 EP or Try M1 AFE? [Re: john_pifer]
HTSS_TR Offline


Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 12901
Loc: Irvine, CA
You don't need M1 EP if your OCI is 10k miles or less. If you want to try 0W20 then either Mazda or Toyota are the ones to buy, whichever is cheaper.
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#2785534 - 10/27/12 03:13 PM Re: Stick with M1 EP or Try M1 AFE? [Re: john_pifer]
RiceCake Offline


Registered: 09/22/12
Posts: 1044
Loc: Coldtown, Canada
What HTSS_TR said. Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30 would flow better on startup and potentially be a better oil for lubrication concerns and maybe a little fuel economy, that's probably it. Mobil 1 AFE 0W-20 would be good too but if you can get Toyota or the new Mazda 0W-20 they're the "hot stuff" to have in a 20 weight.

As for running a 20 well, there's always concerns about getting a bad UOA with it, but its worth a try. I wouldn't run it without getting a UOA.

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#2785588 - 10/27/12 04:14 PM Re: Stick with M1 EP or Try M1 AFE? [Re: john_pifer]
friendly_jacek Offline


Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 5247
Loc: southeast US
I wouldn't tow with 0W20 in an engine that specifies 5W30. City driving or low speed hwy is a different story.

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#2785675 - 10/27/12 06:08 PM Re: Stick with M1 EP or Try M1 AFE? [Re: john_pifer]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 9255
Loc: OH
AFE comes in a 0W-30 flavor and that's what you should use.
Looking at the UOAs here, the AFE seems superior to vanilla M1 and probably equal to EP.
I'd try 0W-30 AFE and see how it works in your use.
It should be fine.
OTOH, PP would also be a very good oil to try, and would be the equal of either M1 flavor in your use.
_________________________
12 Accord LX 22K HGMO 0W-20
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02 Accord 127K G-Oil 5W-30
01 Focus ZX3 98K Synpower 10W-30
95 BMW 318iC 146K Defy 10W-40

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#2785698 - 10/27/12 06:35 PM Re: Stick with M1 EP or Try M1 AFE? [Re: fdcg27]
chubbs1 Offline


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4574
Loc: Merritt Island FL, USA
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
AFE comes in a 0W-30 flavor and that's what you should use.
Looking at the UOAs here, the AFE seems superior to vanilla M1 and probably equal to EP.
I'd try 0W-30 AFE and see how it works in your use.
It should be fine.
OTOH, PP would also be a very good oil to try, and would be the equal of either M1 flavor in your use.


+1
I would have no qualms trying AFE 0w30. I would not use any 20grade, I am not saying it will ruin your engine but just stick to the 30grades. If you look at the VI, I believe M1 5w30 is a little higher, but you are splitting hairs unless you drive in the arctic circle.
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#2785714 - 10/27/12 06:47 PM Re: Stick with M1 EP or Try M1 AFE? [Re: john_pifer]
DuckRyder Online   content


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 1434
Loc: Atlanta
What's your motivation for moving away from the M1 5/30?

What are your expectations of the new oil? (What will it do that the M1 will not)

My vote is stick with what you are doing and do a couple UOA's before changing.


Edited by DuckRyder (10/27/12 06:48 PM)
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#2785748 - 10/27/12 07:21 PM Re: Stick with M1 EP or Try M1 AFE? [Re: john_pifer]
Tones Offline


Registered: 11/28/03
Posts: 889
Loc: Houston, TX
EP is not worth the extra money for your OCI. I run the AFE in my vehicles. Either the 5W Mobil 1 classic or the 0W AFE are great bang for the buck.


Edited by Tones (10/27/12 07:23 PM)
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#2785749 - 10/27/12 07:22 PM Re: Stick with M1 EP or Try M1 AFE? [Re: HTSS_TR]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12503
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
You don't need M1 EP if your OCI is 10k miles or less. If you want to try 0W20 then either Mazda or Toyota are the ones to buy, whichever is cheaper.


Agree, unless your motor tends to dilute or contaminate the fuel badly.
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#2785782 - 10/27/12 08:11 PM Re: Stick with M1 EP or Try M1 AFE? [Re: fdcg27]
Indydriver Offline


Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 1297
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
AFE comes in a 0W-30 flavor and that's what you should use.
Looking at the UOAs here, the AFE seems superior to vanilla M1 and probably equal to EP.

Not true. XOM has three levels of anti-wear additives for their non-racing street oils. For example, they publish phosphorus and zinc additive levels:

High performance (0W-40, 5W-50)= 1000/1100
EP/standard (5W-20, 5W-30)= 800/900
AFE (0W-20, 0W-30)= 650/750

That's about a 20% step down in add pack content for each step. There is NO QUESTION that Mobil1's AFEs contain the weakest add packs of any of their oils. This doesn't mean they are bad oils it just means do not mistake them for "extended" range oils like the others. They are designed for max fuel economy, nothing more. So, if you like EP, do not assume that you don't give up anything going to their 0W oils. Hint: there are better fortified 0W oils on the market.
_________________________
2014 Camaro 2SS/RS LS3 Vert Dexos1 3500
2012 Sienna XLE 30,000 0W-20 TGMO
2011 Accord V6 30,000 0W-20 TGMO
2004 Intrepid 100,000 PP 5W-30

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#2785816 - 10/27/12 08:58 PM Re: Stick with M1 EP or Try M1 AFE? [Re: Indydriver]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 9801
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
AFE comes in a 0W-30 flavor and that's what you should use.
Looking at the UOAs here, the AFE seems superior to vanilla M1 and probably equal to EP.

Not true. XOM has three levels of anti-wear additives for their non-racing street oils. For example, they publish phosphorus and zinc additive levels:

High performance (0W-40, 5W-50)= 1000/1100
EP/standard (5W-20, 5W-30)= 800/900
AFE (0W-20, 0W-30)= 650/750

That's about a 20% step down in add pack content for each step. There is NO QUESTION that Mobil1's AFEs contain the weakest add packs of any of their oils. This doesn't mean they are bad oils it just means do not mistake them for "extended" range oils like the others. They are designed for max fuel economy, nothing more. So, if you like EP, do not assume that you don't give up anything going to their 0W oils. Hint: there are better fortified 0W oils on the market.


Correction here. AFE has the same high temp and low temp ratings according to XM as EP, and higher fuel rating than both EP and reg M1. AFE also is rated higher by XM than reg M1 in the high temp and low temp areas. This is according to the back of the bottle. As for OCI, AFE has the standard 10K warranty, the same as reg M1. Yes, AFE oils are designed for max fuel MPG, but their base stock is very good with a MRV @ -40C of 9200(0-20) showing an outstanding base stock with few equals.



Edited by tig1 (10/27/12 08:59 PM)
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 142,000 miles
M1 0-20
2007 Ford Focus 127,000 miles
M1 0-20
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF
M1 10-30 in all OPE

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#2785839 - 10/27/12 09:30 PM Re: Stick with M1 EP or Try M1 AFE? [Re: tig1]
Indydriver Offline


Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 1297
Loc: Indiana
Since it's "fact-checking" season, I just took a quick look at the HTHS specs and AFE 30 is lower than plain ol' 5W-30 so I don't see where you're getting your info about better high temp specs. 5W-30 is also the only M1 certified for HTO-06. And XOM tells us it has 20% more Phos and zinc. It's an easy call by the data.

EP>M1>AFE

Unless your priority is the specialized blending target of AFE, a slightly thinner start up visc and 2% better fuel mileage at the expense of anti-wear add pack.


Edited by Indydriver (10/27/12 09:38 PM)
_________________________
2014 Camaro 2SS/RS LS3 Vert Dexos1 3500
2012 Sienna XLE 30,000 0W-20 TGMO
2011 Accord V6 30,000 0W-20 TGMO
2004 Intrepid 100,000 PP 5W-30

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#2785855 - 10/27/12 09:49 PM Re: Stick with M1 EP or Try M1 AFE? [Re: Indydriver]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 9801
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Since it's "fact-checking" season, I just took a quick look at the HTHS specs and AFE 30 is lower than plain ol' 5W-30 so I don't see where you're getting your info about better high temp specs. 5W-30 is also the only M1 certified for HTO-06. And XOM tells us it has 20% more Phos and zinc. It's an easy call by the data.

EP>M1>AFE

Unless your priority is the specialized blending target of AFE, a slightly thinner start up visc and 2% better fuel mileage at the expense of anti-wear add pack.


Read the back of the bottle. Also HTO-06 is for 5-30, the only oil XM certified for Honda. Doesn't mean other oils won't meat the spec. XM only certifies what engine builders want. Not their intire line. For example. M1 5-30 was spec for Corvette(4718) but 5-30EP wasn't. I talked to Mobil tech and they told me EP will pass 4718 but that's not the Vette customer oil target. EP being for longer drains so they didn't certify it for Vetts. Also the HTO-06 is a high temp spec for low deposite for the turbo. I fail to see where ZDDP differances in grades makes one oil superior to another in this age of changing wear properities.
It's also interesting that the SN formulation of 5-30EP now carries the HTO-06 and 4718 Vette spec. Things change.


Edited by tig1 (10/27/12 09:59 PM)
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 142,000 miles
M1 0-20
2007 Ford Focus 127,000 miles
M1 0-20
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF
M1 10-30 in all OPE

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#2785858 - 10/27/12 09:53 PM Re: Stick with M1 EP or Try M1 AFE? [Re: Indydriver]
volk06 Offline


Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 4269
Loc: .
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Since it's "fact-checking" season, I just took a quick look at the HTHS specs and AFE 30 is lower than plain ol' 5W-30 so I don't see where you're getting your info about better high temp specs. 5W-30 is also the only M1 certified for HTO-06. And XOM tells us it has 20% more Phos and zinc. It's an easy call by the data.

EP>M1>AFE

Unless your priority is the specialized blending target of AFE, a slightly thinner start up visc and 2% better fuel mileage at the expense of anti-wear add pack.


The reason AFE doesn't have the HT0-6 spec because the oil has to be a 5w-30 for the spec requirements. There was information that AFE used superior base stocks for the low mrv and cold weather specs.

EP>AFE>M1?
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