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#2745332 - 09/16/12 09:59 AM best at removing sludge?
cathy Offline


Registered: 05/17/11
Posts: 149
Loc: usa
How do these compare? 5w/10w-30

Can you rank:
Penzoil Ultra ,PP
mobil 1
mobil clean 7500/Mobil Super (name changed)

Penzoil yellow vs other conventional





Edited by cathy (09/16/12 10:00 AM)
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#2745351 - 09/16/12 10:10 AM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: cathy]
Astro14 Offline


Registered: 10/10/10
Posts: 6666
Loc: Virginia Beach
There are adherents for all the ones that you list. My personal experience has been that a good synthetic (like the ones you list) will do well at cleaning...personally?

I use what I can find on sale...I am brand agnostic...but the PP is usually available for a reasonable price, and so it's often recommended.
_________________________
32 Packard 15W40
90 4Runner 10W40 Edge
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05 MB S600 0W40 M1
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#2745358 - 09/16/12 10:14 AM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: cathy]
SrDriver Offline


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 2736
Loc: Southeast Alabama
PP would be a good choice.

I would change the PVC Valve too if it has not been changed.

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#2745360 - 09/16/12 10:18 AM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: cathy]
Doog Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 5673
Loc: North Coast
For cleaning the PP is probably the best value.
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#2745367 - 09/16/12 10:22 AM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: cathy]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 31614
Loc: Great Lakes
If price is no concern, out of the ones you mentioned PU is marketed as being better at cleaning than PP and M1.
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'02 530i (Edge HM 10W-40)
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#2745374 - 09/16/12 10:26 AM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: cathy]
Thax Offline


Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 669
Loc: VA
PU is better according to SOPUS , any will be perfectly acceptable to clean. No oil can fix a totally sludged motor though.
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#2745375 - 09/16/12 10:26 AM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: cathy]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 16926
Loc: Upstate NY
I would go with PU if my Walmart had it, otherwise PP.
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#2745377 - 09/16/12 10:29 AM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: cathy]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 5548
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
I drive a Jaguar X-Type 2.5L. The engine is known for producing deposits.

It's become clear (over the last 10 years) that standard Mobil 1 5W and 10W-30 allows some minor deposits to form. Yet, when I switch to Mobil 1 5W-40 Turbo Diesel Truck, the engine is again spotless inside.

Guess what oil is going back in today? Yup, M1 5W-40.
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#2745384 - 09/16/12 10:32 AM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: cathy]
volk06 Offline


Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 4521
Loc: Iowa
Its not on your list but G-OIL now has over 4,000ppm of Calcium.... Id say that has to be able to remove sludge pretty good.
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#2745395 - 09/16/12 10:45 AM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: cathy]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 16926
Loc: Upstate NY
Have you pulled the valve cover to inspect for sludge. If so a pic would be good. Kreen or Auto-Rx would also help with a sludge problem.
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1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins- 4-sale


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#2745397 - 09/16/12 10:46 AM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: Cujet]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 16926
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I drive a Jaguar X-Type 2.5L. The engine is known for producing deposits.

It's become clear (over the last 10 years) that standard Mobil 1 5W and 10W-30 allows some minor deposits to form. Yet, when I switch to Mobil 1 5W-40 Turbo Diesel Truck, the engine is again spotless inside.

Guess what oil is going back in today? Yup, M1 5W-40.


I would not use a 5W40 unless your manual calls for it. Find a better 5W30 or 10W30.
_________________________
2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0- sold
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 w/Cummins- 4-sale


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#2745403 - 09/16/12 10:52 AM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: volk06]
TurboJim Offline


Registered: 10/30/04
Posts: 830
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: volk06
Its not on your list but G-OIL now has over 4,000ppm of Calcium.... Id say that has to be able to remove sludge pretty good.


G-Oil also has esters which should help the cause. Even if it doesn't clean up deposits left behind by other oils it's not going to contribute to the problem. See the back of the label - http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2730961&page=1

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#2745431 - 09/16/12 11:27 AM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: cathy]
ChiTDI Offline


Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 2060
Loc: Chicago IL
How much sludge is present?
That answer would direct my purchase.

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#2745433 - 09/16/12 11:29 AM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: TurboJim]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
If you suspect a sludge problem it is best to try and remove the worst of it physically first. That can be a messy long job, but as a bare minimum I would at least clean the sump and make sure the feed to the oil pump is clean.
The next thing to try is a safe oil flush like the Liqui Moly sludge remover that is added just before the oil change and the engine then left to idle for 15 minutes. Don't risk any additive that you drive around with.
Once you have flushed out the engine then choose a synthetic or high mileage oil with lots of Calcium and then change it again after only 1000 miles.

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#2745459 - 09/16/12 12:02 PM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: skyship]
BlueOvalFitter Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 4243
Loc: Cajun Country, La.
What if you have been running a conventional or semi-syn oil in your engine since day one? If you put the PP or PU in will it clean the engine the first time,making it to where you have to drain the dirty oil from all the deposits that are in the oil now?
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2007 F150 XL, 4.2 V6, 4R75E Transmission
Pennzoil Platinum HM 5W30, M1-209 Oil Filter
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#2745503 - 09/16/12 12:46 PM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: cathy]
tribocessive Offline


Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 277
Loc: bay area california
good to see you here on bitog, cathy; we are "unbalanced;" here's looking forward to more frequent postings from you; i agree with the g oil idea; it may work too well, calling for shorter oci's and even short filter changes; how about a purolator classic-cheap and effective (trap that dirt!)
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#2745541 - 09/16/12 01:48 PM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: cathy]
fdcg27 Online   content


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 11978
Loc: OH
Any of the above.
If I suspected sludge, I'd try to remove a valve cover to verify it.
Sludge is usually the product of oil run too long, allowing oxidation to overwhelm detergency, or a bad PCV system or both.
Any oil changed on short intervals will gradually clean up the engine, from what I have seen.
I'd lay in a stock of some FAR oils, like Nextgen and G-Oil, as well as some decent filters bought cheap after discount, like P1s, and plan some 2-3K oil changes.
I'd try to avoid short trips with the car.
After a few short runs, which should greatly reduce the amount of sludge, and assuming that the oil pickup screen is clear (easily verified in some installations, but there are others where removing the oil pan is a major project), I'd maybe try a short run with Kreen, which should clean out everything that remains.
I might also price out an exchange or used engine, in case the patient dies during treatment.
_________________________
12 Accord LX 45K TGMO 0W-20
09 Forester 67K PU 5W-30
02 Accord 144K GOil 5W-30
01 Focus ZX3 112K M1 5W-20
95 BMW 318iC 155K Defy 10W-40

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#2745710 - 09/16/12 06:04 PM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: Donald]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 5548
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I drive a Jaguar X-Type 2.5L...


I would not use a 5W40 unless your manual calls for it. Find a better 5W30 or 10W30.


That would be a proper suggestion anywhere else in the country. However, It's roasting hot most of the year here in South Florida. I drive very hard, AND, these engines are known for wearing out, then spinning rod bearings. The solution is and has always been a more robust oil.

In addition, the cam phasers are very sensitive to sludge buildup. The M1 5W-40 TDT keeps the engine perfectly clean and the cam phasers trouble free.

There is no doubt the engine runs better and is more responsive on the M1 5W-40 TDT. My UOA results also show far fewer wear metals while using it.

Plus, for my climate, guess what viscosity is required for this car in other countries? Yup, you guessed it. 10W-40 synthetic.
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#2747436 - 09/18/12 01:34 PM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: cathy]
TheBig2003 Offline


Registered: 03/09/12
Posts: 113
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Best at removing sludge with no damage to engine for me has always been Pennzoil/Quaker State drop in engine flush, run for 7 minutes and then drain overnight. Next morning fill with Castrol Syntec, but now I use Pennzoil Ultra instead of the Syntec. Never had an issue and valvetrain and internals are spotless with absolutely no wear.
_________________________
2006 Magnum RT AWD-Turbo - 5W40 SYNTEC AC Delco UPF2
2005 Grand Prix GXP V8 - 10W30 SYNTEC K&N PS-1007
2007 BMW Alpina B7 - 5W40 SYNTEC WIX 57171

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#2747446 - 09/18/12 01:44 PM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: TurboJim]
Phishin Offline


Registered: 05/01/12
Posts: 2054
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: TurboJim
Originally Posted By: volk06
Its not on your list but G-OIL now has over 4,000ppm of Calcium.... Id say that has to be able to remove sludge pretty good.


G-Oil also has esters which should help the cause. Even if it doesn't clean up deposits left behind by other oils it's not going to contribute to the problem. See the back of the label - http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2730961&page=1


If you look at the "scorch the earth" thread....where oils were cooked at 400C for 1 hour in a round bottom flask...all the esters produced the MOST sludge. Just saying.
_________________________
2010 Accord-LX K24: PU 5w30
2009 Subaru Forester 2.5X: M1 TDT
1990 Chevy K1500 350TBI: Frankenbrew
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#2747462 - 09/18/12 02:04 PM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: cathy]
Mitch Alsup Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 658
Loc: Austin Texas
Originally Posted By: cathy
How do these compare? 5w/10w-30


Any of the oils mentioned are fine. The easies way to clean sludge, however, is to:: change the oil, drive 1000 miles on vacation, change the oil, then drive another 1000 miles on the way back. Change the oil again and go back to your normal OCI.

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#2747468 - 09/18/12 02:09 PM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: cathy]
lexus114 Offline


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 6127
Loc: Easton, PA
Pennzoil Ultra, thats all you need.
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#2747469 - 09/18/12 02:11 PM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: TheBig2003]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 31709
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: TheBig2003
Best at removing sludge with no damage to engine for me has always been Pennzoil/Quaker State drop in engine flush, run for 7 minutes and then drain overnight. Next morning fill with Castrol Syntec, but now I use Pennzoil Ultra instead of the Syntec. Never had an issue and valvetrain and internals are spotless with absolutely no wear.


If the internals are spotless, then how do you know it was removing sludge? Those two statements sort of contradict one another.
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#2747481 - 09/18/12 02:22 PM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: OVERKILL]
TheBig2003 Offline


Registered: 03/09/12
Posts: 113
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: TheBig2003
Best at removing sludge with no damage to engine for me has always been Pennzoil/Quaker State drop in engine flush, run for 7 minutes and then drain overnight. Next morning fill with Castrol Syntec, but now I use Pennzoil Ultra instead of the Syntec. Never had an issue and valvetrain and internals are spotless with absolutely no wear.


If the internals are spotless, then how do you know it was removing sludge? Those two statements sort of contradict one another.


Well, I purchased a 2006 Pontiac Grand Prix GT S/C with 84,000kms on it, pulled the valve covers because the gaskets had blown - common problem for the 3800. Nice sludgy situation was going on there, I changed the gaskets and followed my plan.

This spring with 92,000kms on the engine, I tore the engine down completely because I was changing the rockers, bearings, springs, pushrods, camshaft and valves because I was increasing compression on the supercharger and everything was spotless when I removed them this spring.

Brought to a buddy of mine who owns a machine shop - everything was within GM specs - BEAUTIFUL. That's how I know. Not exactly contradictory is it if that's the case.
_________________________
2006 Magnum RT AWD-Turbo - 5W40 SYNTEC AC Delco UPF2
2005 Grand Prix GXP V8 - 10W30 SYNTEC K&N PS-1007
2007 BMW Alpina B7 - 5W40 SYNTEC WIX 57171

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#2747483 - 09/18/12 02:24 PM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: TheBig2003]
BlueOvalFitter Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 4243
Loc: Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted By: TheBig2003
Best at removing sludge with no damage to engine for me has always been Pennzoil/Quaker State drop in engine flush, run for 7 minutes and then drain overnight. Next morning fill with Castrol Syntec, but now I use Pennzoil Ultra instead of the Syntec. Never had an issue and valvetrain and internals are spotless with absolutely no wear.

I misunderstood part of your reply;
"Pennzoil/Quaker State drop in engine flush"
Are you saying that you use one of the mentioed oils AND an engine flush? shrug
_________________________
2007 F150 XL, 4.2 V6, 4R75E Transmission
Pennzoil Platinum HM 5W30, M1-209 Oil Filter
"One Filter, One OCI!"
USA

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#2747491 - 09/18/12 02:35 PM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: BlueOvalFitter]
TheBig2003 Offline


Registered: 03/09/12
Posts: 113
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: TheBig2003
Best at removing sludge with no damage to engine for me has always been Pennzoil/Quaker State drop in engine flush, run for 7 minutes and then drain overnight. Next morning fill with Castrol Syntec, but now I use Pennzoil Ultra instead of the Syntec. Never had an issue and valvetrain and internals are spotless with absolutely no wear.

I misunderstood part of your reply;
"Pennzoil/Quaker State drop in engine flush"
Are you saying that you use one of the mentioed oils AND an engine flush? shrug


That's correct, I use the flush first (either Pennzoil or Quaker State brand Engine Flush) on a cold engine, run the engine for 7 minutes and then immediately do the drain (which lasts overnight) and then fill with one of the two oils and use a Wix filter of course.
_________________________
2006 Magnum RT AWD-Turbo - 5W40 SYNTEC AC Delco UPF2
2005 Grand Prix GXP V8 - 10W30 SYNTEC K&N PS-1007
2007 BMW Alpina B7 - 5W40 SYNTEC WIX 57171

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#2747493 - 09/18/12 02:37 PM Re: best at removing sludge? [Re: TheBig2003]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 31709
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: TheBig2003
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: TheBig2003
Best at removing sludge with no damage to engine for me has always been Pennzoil/Quaker State drop in engine flush, run for 7 minutes and then drain overnight. Next morning fill with Castrol Syntec, but now I use Pennzoil Ultra instead of the Syntec. Never had an issue and valvetrain and internals are spotless with absolutely no wear.


If the internals are spotless, then how do you know it was removing sludge? Those two statements sort of contradict one another.


Well, I purchased a 2006 Pontiac Grand Prix GT S/C with 84,000kms on it, pulled the valve covers because the gaskets had blown - common problem for the 3800. Nice sludgy situation was going on there, I changed the gaskets and followed my plan.

This spring with 92,000kms on the engine, I tore the engine down completely because I was changing the rockers, bearings, springs, pushrods, camshaft and valves because I was increasing compression on the supercharger and everything was spotless when I removed them this spring.

Brought to a buddy of mine who owns a machine shop - everything was within GM specs - BEAUTIFUL. That's how I know. Not exactly contradictory is it if that's the case.


Explained completely, it makes a lot more sense. Thank you for taking the time to do so.
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