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#2724668 - 08/25/12 08:56 AM Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive??
Falken Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 1512
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
Guys, I am a long time Wix filter user.

I like the IDEA of Mobil oil filters as an alternative on my Honda Fit (M1-110 I believe).

But what worries me is if they are too restrictive to oil flow.

I also like the idea of FRAM Synthetic Oil Filters... Always stayed away from FRAM but have heard good things about these.

I get Wix dirt cheap, like 7$ a filter. All the above mentioned filters are twice the price. Should I just stick to Wix? Are the Wix cleaning the oil well enough.

Please note I never use Dino, synthetics (on sale) are just that cheap now. Even Toyota 0W20 is 5 bucks a quart.
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Falken - Apprentice Auto Mechanic
2010 Honda Fit DX-A in Black
Current Fill: Pennzoil Ultra 5W20 SN, Wix 57356 Oil Filter, ATF DW-1, TC-W3 2T User smile

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#2724672 - 08/25/12 08:59 AM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Falken]
JRed Offline


Registered: 06/01/09
Posts: 1633
Loc: Virginia
I'd stick with the Wix. The Mobil filters aren't restrictive, but they are a lot more expensive with minimal (if any) benefit.
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06 Subaru Impreza WRX - Sold. The only mechanical thing I'll ever love.
07 Toyota Prius - Cheap synthetic and PureOne filters.

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#2724681 - 08/25/12 09:10 AM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Falken]
simple_gifts Offline


Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 8676
Loc: Middlesex County CT
Mobil 1 filters are good for 15K; that is a benefit and easily makes them cost effective.
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#2724701 - 08/25/12 09:34 AM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Falken]
sayjac Online   content


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 7888
Loc: The Old North State
No. Keeping in mind that the engine itself is ~15x more restrictive than the filter, M1 flow is no issue. Use with confidence, but depending on price an oci, the M1 may not be your best value. As mentioned M1 designed for 12-15k oci, overkill imo, for 7-8k oci

Wix is fine for ~7-8k oci, even to 10k/1year imo in a well maintained engine.

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#2724714 - 08/25/12 09:55 AM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Falken]
Boss302fan Offline


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 1878
Loc: Oconomowoc Wi
Wix or Pureones are very good filters...

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#2724724 - 08/25/12 10:04 AM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: sayjac]
LT4 Vette Offline


Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 12077
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: sayjac
As mentioned M1 designed for 12-15k oci, overkill imo, for 7-8k oci

My 81 year old dad drives 2500 miles per year and I have an M1-104 Mobil 1 oil filter on his car for 4 years but I change the oil every 6 months.
If you are not going to use a Mobil 1 filter for a while then its best just to use a $3 Purolator Classic filter.


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#2724729 - 08/25/12 10:07 AM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: sayjac]
Artem Offline


Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 4331
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: JRed
I'd stick with the Wix. The Mobil filters aren't restrictive, but they are a lot more expensive with minimal (if any) benefit.


Any proof to this? From all the oil filter testing i've seen, the higher quality filter media DOES in fact filter better then the cheaper competitor filter.

Originally Posted By: sayjac
No. Keeping in mind that the engine itself is ~15x more restrictive than the filter, M1 flow is no issue. Use with confidence, but depending on price an oci, the M1 may not be your best value. As mentioned M1 designed for 12-15k oci, overkill imo, for 7-8k oci

Wix is fine for ~7-8k oci, even to 10k/1year imo in a well maintained engine.


I used the M1 oil filters for 2x 7,500 mile OCIs in my 07 Civic 1.8L.

I've also used them for the full 15k worth of use and the UOA showed great oil filtration at the end of the day.

I also buy mine when they are on sale and coupled with AAPs discount codes, they come out to $6 each! I bought 10 which will last me for quite a while. thumbsup
_________________________
2011 Toyota Avalon Limited 3.5L V6 - 45k - 5w30 Mobil 1

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#2724800 - 08/25/12 12:02 PM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Falken]
Corvette Owner Offline


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 1556
Loc: Waldorf, Maryland
I use WIX filters. I used to use Premium DELCO filters on my Corvette, but then switched to WIX after others complained of poor flow. My cold oil pressure went up 10 psi and the Corvette oil pressure sensor is AFTER the oil filter, so more pressure equals more flow.
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#2724808 - 08/25/12 12:10 PM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Artem]
JOD Offline


Registered: 09/10/09
Posts: 3069
Loc: PNW/WA
Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: JRed
I'd stick with the Wix. The Mobil filters aren't restrictive, but they are a lot more expensive with minimal (if any) benefit.


Any proof to this? From all the oil filter testing i've seen, the higher quality filter media DOES in fact filter better then the cheaper competitor filter.



That's a feature, not a benefit... Yes, the M1 does filter better, but I guess the question is "does it actually matter". 95% vs 99% @ 20u? The efficiency of the Wix is still pretty good. So, I agree with JRed, there's minimal, if any benefit. Keep in mind, I'd probably go with the better filter as well and use it longer (just as you're doing)--but I think you have to be realistic about it.


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#2724901 - 08/25/12 02:53 PM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Corvette Owner]
SEMI_287 Offline


Registered: 02/25/11
Posts: 967
Loc: Up State NY
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
more pressure equals more flow.


You have that backwards. When oil is cold it's thicker and flows more slowly and thus gives a higher pressure reading.
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#2724931 - 08/25/12 03:27 PM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: SEMI_287]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 6649
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: SEMI_287
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
more pressure equals more flow.


You have that backwards. When oil is cold it's thicker and flows more slowly and thus gives a higher pressure reading.


With a positive displacement oil pump, the oil pressure should be the same (if the oil pump is tight) regardless of how restrictive the oil filter is, as long as the oil pump is not in pressure relief mode (ie, the pump is not bypassing oil to the sump).

The only time you could see the effect of a more restrictive oil filter is if the oil pump is in pressure relief mode (ie, putting out maximum oil pressure). At idle, I doubt the oil pump is in pressure relief mode unless the oil is super thick, or the filter is very restrictive (ie, clogged up).

If you see higher oil pressure (sensor after the filter) at high RPM, but only when the pump is in pressure relief, then that is a direct indication of a less restrictive oil filter. These kinds of measurements need to be done at the same engine RPM and oil viscosity (ie, weight & temperature) to make sense.

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#2724984 - 08/25/12 05:14 PM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Falken]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 10967
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Falken
I get Wix dirt cheap, like 7$ a filter. All the above mentioned filters are twice the price. Should I just stick to Wix? Are the Wix cleaning the oil well enough.


As we've discussed before, the Fram Synthetic and Mobil 1 filters are pretty expensive up here. Partsource might be the place to go for the XG. I'd stick with Wix at that price. Or, check Autopartsway, particularly if you need other parts. If you buy in excess of $75, you get free shipping, and their Bosch Premiums tend to be under $5 a piece.

I'd have no problem using the Fram Synthetic or M1 if I were extending my OCIs, or if they were the same price as the other filters I get. Since neither of those is the case, I don't bother. The cheapest I've seen the Fram Synthetic was within $1.50 of the Wix, and for my short OCIs, that's still too much of a price difference.
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Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#2728030 - 08/28/12 06:23 PM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: ZeeOSix]
Corvette Owner Offline


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 1556
Loc: Waldorf, Maryland
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: SEMI_287
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
more pressure equals more flow.


You have that backwards. When oil is cold it's thicker and flows more slowly and thus gives a higher pressure reading.


With a positive displacement oil pump, the oil pressure should be the same (if the oil pump is tight) regardless of how restrictive the oil filter is, as long as the oil pump is not in pressure relief mode (ie, the pump is not bypassing oil to the sump).

The only time you could see the effect of a more restrictive oil filter is if the oil pump is in pressure relief mode (ie, putting out maximum oil pressure). At idle, I doubt the oil pump is in pressure relief mode unless the oil is super thick, or the filter is very restrictive (ie, clogged up).

If you see higher oil pressure (sensor after the filter) at high RPM, but only when the pump is in pressure relief, then that is a direct indication of a less restrictive oil filter. These kinds of measurements need to be done at the same engine RPM and oil viscosity (ie, weight & temperature) to make sense.


Okay, let me explain a few things.

First, the most restrictive part of the oil system is the main bearings. So, during cold start up you see the result of the oil filter restriction UNTIL the oil gets to the bearings and makes a complete circuit. That what I mean about "COLD START UP".

Second point, if the oil pressure sensor was BEFORE the oil filter, then more pressure would indicate more restriction and less flow. But because it is after the oil filter, more pressure afterwards means more flow.
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#2728144 - 08/28/12 07:58 PM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Corvette Owner]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 6649
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
Okay, let me explain a few things.

First, the most restrictive part of the oil system is the main bearings. So, during cold start up you see the result of the oil filter restriction UNTIL the oil gets to the bearings and makes a complete circuit. That what I mean about "COLD START UP".

Second point, if the oil pressure sensor was BEFORE the oil filter, then more pressure would indicate more restriction and less flow. But because it is after the oil filter, more pressure afterwards means more flow.


Agreed that the bearings in an engine provide the most oil flow restriction. An engine is typically about 15 times more restrictive than the oil filter.

If you watch an oil pressure gauge located after the filter during a cold start-up, the pressure will build from zero to whatever high value it will become once oil flow is fully established in the engine. This is all due to engine restriction to flow, and only takes a few seconds. Just like when you install a new dry oil filter during an oil change, you see zero oil pressure until the oil has hit the engine's bearing system. If there was no engine after the filter to provide flow restriction, the pressure would always read zero.

You can never see the effect of an oil filter's restrictiveness on oil pressure when the gauge is after the oil filter ... except when the oil pump is in pressure relief mode - this is the key to understanding how the oiling system behaves. That's because a positive displacement oil pump (if in good shape) will increase its output pressure to maintain the same flow volume at the same engine RPM.

If the oil viscosity and engine RPM remains constant
, then an increase in oil pressure after the filter means that there is more engine restriction (if the pump is tight and doesn't leak much past the lobes). Of course, if the engine RPM and/or oil viscosity changes, then that will really effect the indicated oil pressure too.

All of these comparisons need to be made at the exact same oil viscosity (weight and temperature) and engine RPM to make any sense. There are many variables that can effect oil pressure readings.



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