Recent Topics
Biggest AC Delco/Fram Ultra for GM LSA?
by GM4LIFE
2 minutes 0 seconds ago
using M1 High Mileage... having doubts, switch?
by Legend11
Yesterday at 11:55 PM
What is white mask symbol on violet back ground
by jorton
Yesterday at 11:39 PM
Took the Amsoil plunge today.
by 340_Magnum
Yesterday at 11:32 PM
2013 Silverado 5.3 lifter noise
by gofasterrrr
Yesterday at 10:12 PM
Installed my last PureOne today.
by Hollow
Yesterday at 09:55 PM
2014 silverado oil issue
by Jschreffler81
Yesterday at 09:14 PM
Ford Duratec 2.0
by pbm
Yesterday at 08:47 PM
Improving Vision
by lawman1909
Yesterday at 08:19 PM
Made a headlamp harness for the Miata
by Klutch9
Yesterday at 08:09 PM
Avast Secure Online / CCleaner question
by 97tbird
Yesterday at 07:58 PM
Motul 8100 5w40, 5,500 miles, 2002 WRX (stg 4/18G)
by TedMeyer
Yesterday at 07:10 PM
Newest Members
340_Magnum, aselinger, extrabigjon, monron, Jschreffler81
51672 Registered Users
Who's Online
53 registered (aselinger, bdcardinal, 3Aone, 340_Magnum, 01rangerxl, 901Memphis, 3 invisible), 910 Guests and 178 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
51672 Members
64 Forums
221087 Topics
3494829 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Topic Options
#2724668 - 08/25/12 08:56 AM Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive??
Falken Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 1684
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
Guys, I am a long time Wix filter user.

I like the IDEA of Mobil oil filters as an alternative on my Honda Fit (M1-110 I believe).

But what worries me is if they are too restrictive to oil flow.

I also like the idea of FRAM Synthetic Oil Filters... Always stayed away from FRAM but have heard good things about these.

I get Wix dirt cheap, like 7$ a filter. All the above mentioned filters are twice the price. Should I just stick to Wix? Are the Wix cleaning the oil well enough.

Please note I never use Dino, synthetics (on sale) are just that cheap now. Even Toyota 0W20 is 5 bucks a quart.
_________________________
Falken - Draftsperson
2010 Honda Fit DX-A in Black
Current Fill: QSUD 5W20 SN, Wix 57356 Oil Filter, ATF DW-1

Top
#2724672 - 08/25/12 08:59 AM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Falken]
JRed Offline


Registered: 06/01/09
Posts: 1633
Loc: Virginia
I'd stick with the Wix. The Mobil filters aren't restrictive, but they are a lot more expensive with minimal (if any) benefit.
_________________________
06 Subaru Impreza WRX - Sold. The only mechanical thing I'll ever love.
07 Toyota Prius - Cheap synthetic and PureOne filters.

Top
#2724681 - 08/25/12 09:10 AM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Falken]
simple_gifts Offline


Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 9024
Loc: Middlesex County CT
Mobil 1 filters are good for 15K; that is a benefit and easily makes them cost effective.
_________________________
2003 Echo >349K miles;Supergard 5W-[23]0;
2006 B2300;88K;ALM

Not sure what you want to pay for, but Linux never produced a dancing paperclip.

Top
#2724701 - 08/25/12 09:34 AM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Falken]
sayjac Offline


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 8218
Loc: The Old North State
No. Keeping in mind that the engine itself is ~15x more restrictive than the filter, M1 flow is no issue. Use with confidence, but depending on price an oci, the M1 may not be your best value. As mentioned M1 designed for 12-15k oci, overkill imo, for 7-8k oci

Wix is fine for ~7-8k oci, even to 10k/1year imo in a well maintained engine.

Top
#2724714 - 08/25/12 09:55 AM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Falken]
Boss302fan Offline


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 1955
Loc: Oconomowoc Wi
Wix or Pureones are very good filters...
_________________________
John P
Wisconsin
2006 Lexus LS 430
1990 Jaguar XJS V12
2011 Hyundai Santa Fe V6
Other fun cars

Top
#2724724 - 08/25/12 10:04 AM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: sayjac]
LT4 Vette Offline


Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 12508
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: sayjac
As mentioned M1 designed for 12-15k oci, overkill imo, for 7-8k oci

My 81 year old dad drives 2500 miles per year and I have an M1-104 Mobil 1 oil filter on his car for 4 years but I change the oil every 6 months.
If you are not going to use a Mobil 1 filter for a while then its best just to use a $3 Purolator Classic filter.


Top
#2724729 - 08/25/12 10:07 AM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: sayjac]
Artem Offline


Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 4372
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: JRed
I'd stick with the Wix. The Mobil filters aren't restrictive, but they are a lot more expensive with minimal (if any) benefit.


Any proof to this? From all the oil filter testing i've seen, the higher quality filter media DOES in fact filter better then the cheaper competitor filter.

Originally Posted By: sayjac
No. Keeping in mind that the engine itself is ~15x more restrictive than the filter, M1 flow is no issue. Use with confidence, but depending on price an oci, the M1 may not be your best value. As mentioned M1 designed for 12-15k oci, overkill imo, for 7-8k oci

Wix is fine for ~7-8k oci, even to 10k/1year imo in a well maintained engine.


I used the M1 oil filters for 2x 7,500 mile OCIs in my 07 Civic 1.8L.

I've also used them for the full 15k worth of use and the UOA showed great oil filtration at the end of the day.

I also buy mine when they are on sale and coupled with AAPs discount codes, they come out to $6 each! I bought 10 which will last me for quite a while. thumbsup
_________________________
2011 Toyota Avalon Limited 3.5L V6 - 52k - 5w30 Mobil 1

2014 RAM 3500HD work truck

2014 Mazda 3 hatch i Touring 2.0L & 6spd - Mobil 1 0w30

Top
#2724800 - 08/25/12 12:02 PM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Falken]
Corvette Owner Offline


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 1614
Loc: Waldorf, Maryland
I use WIX filters. I used to use Premium DELCO filters on my Corvette, but then switched to WIX after others complained of poor flow. My cold oil pressure went up 10 psi and the Corvette oil pressure sensor is AFTER the oil filter, so more pressure equals more flow.
_________________________
Vehicles:
98 Corvette
06 Murano
96 Chevy Van (Custom Conversion)
14 Chevy Impala
10 Starcraft Boat
13 Buick Enclave

Top
#2724808 - 08/25/12 12:10 PM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Artem]
JOD Offline


Registered: 09/10/09
Posts: 3145
Loc: PNW/WA
Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: JRed
I'd stick with the Wix. The Mobil filters aren't restrictive, but they are a lot more expensive with minimal (if any) benefit.


Any proof to this? From all the oil filter testing i've seen, the higher quality filter media DOES in fact filter better then the cheaper competitor filter.



That's a feature, not a benefit... Yes, the M1 does filter better, but I guess the question is "does it actually matter". 95% vs 99% @ 20u? The efficiency of the Wix is still pretty good. So, I agree with JRed, there's minimal, if any benefit. Keep in mind, I'd probably go with the better filter as well and use it longer (just as you're doing)--but I think you have to be realistic about it.


Top
#2724901 - 08/25/12 02:53 PM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Corvette Owner]
SEMI_287 Offline


Registered: 02/25/11
Posts: 980
Loc: Up State NY
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
more pressure equals more flow.


You have that backwards. When oil is cold it's thicker and flows more slowly and thus gives a higher pressure reading.
_________________________
2014 Dodge Avenger- Valvoline Synpower 5w20
K&N
2008 Mitsubishi Galant -Brad Penn 5w30
Napa Gold


Top
#2724931 - 08/25/12 03:27 PM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: SEMI_287]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 7418
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: SEMI_287
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
more pressure equals more flow.


You have that backwards. When oil is cold it's thicker and flows more slowly and thus gives a higher pressure reading.


With a positive displacement oil pump, the oil pressure should be the same (if the oil pump is tight) regardless of how restrictive the oil filter is, as long as the oil pump is not in pressure relief mode (ie, the pump is not bypassing oil to the sump).

The only time you could see the effect of a more restrictive oil filter is if the oil pump is in pressure relief mode (ie, putting out maximum oil pressure). At idle, I doubt the oil pump is in pressure relief mode unless the oil is super thick, or the filter is very restrictive (ie, clogged up).

If you see higher oil pressure (sensor after the filter) at high RPM, but only when the pump is in pressure relief, then that is a direct indication of a less restrictive oil filter. These kinds of measurements need to be done at the same engine RPM and oil viscosity (ie, weight & temperature) to make sense.

Top
#2724984 - 08/25/12 05:14 PM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Falken]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11606
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Falken
I get Wix dirt cheap, like 7$ a filter. All the above mentioned filters are twice the price. Should I just stick to Wix? Are the Wix cleaning the oil well enough.


As we've discussed before, the Fram Synthetic and Mobil 1 filters are pretty expensive up here. Partsource might be the place to go for the XG. I'd stick with Wix at that price. Or, check Autopartsway, particularly if you need other parts. If you buy in excess of $75, you get free shipping, and their Bosch Premiums tend to be under $5 a piece.

I'd have no problem using the Fram Synthetic or M1 if I were extending my OCIs, or if they were the same price as the other filters I get. Since neither of those is the case, I don't bother. The cheapest I've seen the Fram Synthetic was within $1.50 of the Wix, and for my short OCIs, that's still too much of a price difference.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#2728030 - 08/28/12 06:23 PM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: ZeeOSix]
Corvette Owner Offline


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 1614
Loc: Waldorf, Maryland
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: SEMI_287
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
more pressure equals more flow.


You have that backwards. When oil is cold it's thicker and flows more slowly and thus gives a higher pressure reading.


With a positive displacement oil pump, the oil pressure should be the same (if the oil pump is tight) regardless of how restrictive the oil filter is, as long as the oil pump is not in pressure relief mode (ie, the pump is not bypassing oil to the sump).

The only time you could see the effect of a more restrictive oil filter is if the oil pump is in pressure relief mode (ie, putting out maximum oil pressure). At idle, I doubt the oil pump is in pressure relief mode unless the oil is super thick, or the filter is very restrictive (ie, clogged up).

If you see higher oil pressure (sensor after the filter) at high RPM, but only when the pump is in pressure relief, then that is a direct indication of a less restrictive oil filter. These kinds of measurements need to be done at the same engine RPM and oil viscosity (ie, weight & temperature) to make sense.


Okay, let me explain a few things.

First, the most restrictive part of the oil system is the main bearings. So, during cold start up you see the result of the oil filter restriction UNTIL the oil gets to the bearings and makes a complete circuit. That what I mean about "COLD START UP".

Second point, if the oil pressure sensor was BEFORE the oil filter, then more pressure would indicate more restriction and less flow. But because it is after the oil filter, more pressure afterwards means more flow.
_________________________
Vehicles:
98 Corvette
06 Murano
96 Chevy Van (Custom Conversion)
14 Chevy Impala
10 Starcraft Boat
13 Buick Enclave

Top
#2728144 - 08/28/12 07:58 PM Re: Mobil Oil Filters: Too Restrictive?? [Re: Corvette Owner]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 7418
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
Okay, let me explain a few things.

First, the most restrictive part of the oil system is the main bearings. So, during cold start up you see the result of the oil filter restriction UNTIL the oil gets to the bearings and makes a complete circuit. That what I mean about "COLD START UP".

Second point, if the oil pressure sensor was BEFORE the oil filter, then more pressure would indicate more restriction and less flow. But because it is after the oil filter, more pressure afterwards means more flow.


Agreed that the bearings in an engine provide the most oil flow restriction. An engine is typically about 15 times more restrictive than the oil filter.

If you watch an oil pressure gauge located after the filter during a cold start-up, the pressure will build from zero to whatever high value it will become once oil flow is fully established in the engine. This is all due to engine restriction to flow, and only takes a few seconds. Just like when you install a new dry oil filter during an oil change, you see zero oil pressure until the oil has hit the engine's bearing system. If there was no engine after the filter to provide flow restriction, the pressure would always read zero.

You can never see the effect of an oil filter's restrictiveness on oil pressure when the gauge is after the oil filter ... except when the oil pump is in pressure relief mode - this is the key to understanding how the oiling system behaves. That's because a positive displacement oil pump (if in good shape) will increase its output pressure to maintain the same flow volume at the same engine RPM.

If the oil viscosity and engine RPM remains constant
, then an increase in oil pressure after the filter means that there is more engine restriction (if the pump is tight and doesn't leak much past the lobes). Of course, if the engine RPM and/or oil viscosity changes, then that will really effect the indicated oil pressure too.

All of these comparisons need to be made at the exact same oil viscosity (weight and temperature) and engine RPM to make any sense. There are many variables that can effect oil pressure readings.



Top