Recent Topics
Bean Counters vs Swedish Engineering
by Y_K
08/28/16 12:04 AM
Interesting website for comparing guns
by 901Memphis
08/27/16 11:45 PM
Android clear cached data
by expat
08/27/16 11:07 PM
Worm gear vs spring type hose clamps?
by TheLoneRanger
08/27/16 10:35 PM
Factory fog lights...common wiring and wattage?
by ryan2022
08/27/16 10:32 PM
2 Hyundai/Kia OEM Filters cut open
by KD0AXS
08/27/16 10:30 PM
Preferred SUV for snow: Large FWD or smaller AWD?
by Carbon12
08/27/16 09:55 PM
Chevron 5W-20 $10/5-quart at WM
by wgtoys
08/27/16 09:15 PM
Best alternative to FL500S
by buck91
08/27/16 09:11 PM
New router?
by Quattro Pete
08/27/16 08:44 PM
MPV 7100 Hybrid Mower
by spk2000
08/27/16 08:17 PM
Carlson Slide Pins
by SavagePatch
08/27/16 08:07 PM
Newest Members
DALpilotMike, Safetyfirst, rwood, USARMOR, GV00
58943 Registered Users
Who's Online
52 registered (3800Series, A310, B320i, 69GTX, Astro14, 901Memphis, 6 invisible), 934 Guests and 33 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
58943 Members
66 Forums
253655 Topics
4164061 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG
Topic Options
#2703075 - 08/02/12 04:46 PM Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN
tstep Offline


Registered: 08/06/11
Posts: 369
Loc: PA
With all the emphasis for resource conserving (understood that 10w-40 is not exactly resource conserving), why would SOPUS 10w-40 class oils get thicker when transition from SM to SN? Was SM perhaps too light w/ observable consequences being reported? Were the SL oils as light as SM, but with higher levels of plating additives? Are the SN formulations are nearly in the 15w-40 range to compensate for lower levels plating metals relying more on film thickness? Couple of comparisons below:

PYB SM ..............PYB SN
KV40 = 96.9 .........KV40 = 104.7
KV100 = 14.0 ........KV100 = 15.5
HTHS = 3.7 ..........HTHS = 3.8
Pour Point = -30 ....Pour Point = -42

Shell Formula has a similar viscosity increase in the 10% range along with the same 10-15 degree lowering of the pour point. Values are nearly identical to PYB. Quaker State however, looks as though they did not change the formuation from SM to SN.

Top
#2703109 - 08/02/12 05:26 PM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: tstep]
JRed Offline


Registered: 06/01/09
Posts: 1688
Loc: Virginia
It's probably due to the use of higher quality base stocks to meet the requirements of API SN.
_________________________
06 Subaru Impreza WRX - Sold. The only mechanical thing I'll ever love.
07 Toyota Prius - Cheap synthetic and PureOne filters.

Top
#2703111 - 08/02/12 05:28 PM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: tstep]
dave1251 Online   happy


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 8135
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
HTHS is about the same but pour point is improved. It is not that much "thicker" at operating temperature this looks improved overall to me.
_________________________
make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.

Top
#2703119 - 08/02/12 05:35 PM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: tstep]
tstep Offline


Registered: 08/06/11
Posts: 369
Loc: PA
I thought maybe the pour point would be an indicator of a better base. Just seems odd to have a 10% increase in KV and also odd to have Shell follow suit (unless it is the same oil repackaged) when the market trend is toward thinner oils.

But as stated, the HTHS is very similar.


Edited by tstep (08/02/12 05:36 PM)

Top
#2703125 - 08/02/12 05:42 PM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: tstep]
dave1251 Online   happy


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 8135
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
It makes since because of the oils are provided by Shell.
_________________________
make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.

Top
#2703357 - 08/02/12 09:31 PM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: tstep]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 19093
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Where did you find this data sheet? When I look here, I find substantially different numbers for the SN, in line with what you posted for the SM numbers.

Perhaps you have a newer sheet than I do. The SN sheet I linked above is dated November of 2010.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#2703358 - 08/02/12 09:36 PM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: Garak]
dave1251 Online   happy


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 8135
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
Originally Posted By: Garak
Where did you find this data sheet? When I look here, I find substantially different numbers for the SN, in line with what you posted for the SM numbers.

Perhaps you have a newer sheet than I do. The SN sheet I linked above is dated November of 2010.


http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140007054913_201202271120.pdf
_________________________
make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.

Top
#2703569 - 08/03/12 05:31 AM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: dave1251]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 19093
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Thanks for the link. That's definitely a newer sheet than the one I was looking at. The one I was looking at was probably an "edit" where they just changed SM/GF-4 references to SN/GF-5 and left everything else alone. wink

Now, to see if I can find it myself on the Shell site without digging up something ancient again....

Bingo. If I want to find it, I have to set my country to the U.S. If I set it to Canada, I have the choice of SM/GF-4 Pennzoil or the old SN/GF-5 sheet (the one I referenced). If I choose the U.S., I get the old SM/GF-4 sheet or the one you showed me.

It might aid people if they put a reference date in the columns for these products, especially if they're keeping out of date spec sheets online. There are valid reasons for keeping old sheets out there, but it would be nice if there were a way to more easily filter them.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#2703638 - 08/03/12 07:51 AM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: tstep]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13031
Loc: Chicago, IL
Shell is not consistent with updating spec sheets. This is a bit of a turn off as I look for my next oil to try...
_________________________
2011 BMW M3 sedan ZCP

Top
#2704134 - 08/03/12 05:32 PM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: dparm]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 19093
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Agreed. It's not bad for me, who just needs something SM/GF-4 or better in a 5w-30. Anyone needing European specifications, like yourself, has a chore on his hands.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top