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#2694457 - 07/24/12 11:31 PM V10 TDI VW Touareg oil analysis results
clint440 Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 7
Loc: WA

Oil analysis results:

http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f93/v10-oil-analysis-results-77281.html

curious to see any feedback.....

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#2694460 - 07/24/12 11:55 PM Re: V10 TDI VW Touareg oil analysis results [Re: clint440]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12539
Loc: Chicago, IL
Whoa, 257ppm of iron showing up despite a 13qt sump?
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#2694463 - 07/25/12 12:02 AM Re: V10 TDI VW Touareg oil analysis results [Re: clint440]
Lead Shoes Offline


Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 2377
Loc: Mn
250ppm iron and they list it as normal? 0.o Interesting...



Edited by Brenden (07/25/12 12:07 AM)
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#2694472 - 07/25/12 12:43 AM Re: V10 TDI VW Touareg oil analysis results [Re: clint440]
Brons2 Offline


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: Austin, Texas
I would not run a VW507 oil in a PD TDI. He needs to either use 505.01, or run a API CJ4 oil like M1 TDT or T6. Those have shown good results in PD engines.
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#2694479 - 07/25/12 01:08 AM Re: V10 TDI VW Touareg oil analysis results [Re: Lead Shoes]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
If you read the comments on that UOA the analyst, they do express concern and draw attention to the Iron and Moly figures, which are both high. If there was no Moly in the virgin oil, then I would be rather concerned about those figures, although without knowing what the trend is it's hard to know if this is a small particle or metal flake that has scratched a bearing. Particle streaks can cause a one off false alarm, but if there is an increasing trend then that is not good news.

If this is not a false alarm then the engine has a bearing or bushing that is wearing. The fact there is no lead or copper showing means it is not the main bearings or the valve guides. Unfortuntely I don't know what type of bearings this engine has and there is even a slight chance it is ring wear, because some types have moly in them rather than chrome compounds.

It would be a good idea to ask on the VW forums about which bearing or bush it might be and take action to reduce cold start wear issues, like using the best 0W/X fully synthetic approved by VW and if that does not help the figures think about using Liqui Moly Ceretec.

Another thing if you have an iffy bearing or bush, is to be very careful on cold starts, always wait 30 seconds at idle before driving off and keep the revs real low until warm. A good driving school teaches you to start the engine then put on your seatbelt, check the mirrors are adjusted correctly and after a quick check all the warning lights are out, drive away. Same when you stop, fiddle about and take off the belts then turn off the engine, BUT don't idle for more than a few minutes as it is bad news. If you drive correctly in engine wear terms, it makes a surprising difference to your UOA results and engine life.

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#2694570 - 07/25/12 07:11 AM Re: V10 TDI VW Touareg oil analysis results [Re: skyship]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25909
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: skyship
If you read the comments on that UOA the analyst, they do express concern and draw attention to the Iron and Moly figures, which are both high.

We don't know what oil he ran previously. Moly may have been leftover additive from his previous oil.
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#2694596 - 07/25/12 07:55 AM Re: V10 TDI VW Touareg oil analysis results [Re: Quattro Pete]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7754
Loc: Barberton,Ohio
or part of the additives he said hes using
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#2694942 - 07/25/12 02:39 PM Re: V10 TDI VW Touareg oil analysis results [Re: Rand]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
Sorry, I missed the fact that additives are in use, so the Moly won't help identify the components wearing.
It seems odd that the other wear metals and Lead in particular are OK, so this is either general engine wear that is causing the high Iron or some kind of false alarm from a particle streak, corrosion or debris entering the sump.
It will be interesting to see the next UOA, to see if it was a false alarm and what type of oil filter was in use. I presume it's a VW one, but if not then a cheap oil filter could be part of the cause.
I don't like the VW diesels very much as they are very fussy in oil terms and the required additive probably has a story to tell in itself, if it is really required by the manufacturer for the warrenty.


Originally Posted By: Rand
or part of the additives he said hes using

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#2695551 - 07/25/12 11:24 PM Re: V10 TDI VW Touareg oil analysis results [Re: skyship]
clint440 Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 7
Loc: WA
Interesting Feedback, I must confess interpreting the results are hard for me to discern, hence I posted here. I didn't have much luck on the touareg forum. I have been running the euro blend Amsoil for the last 25,000 miles. I wonder if the high iron wear stems from the PD cam lobes and being gear driven cams as their are no chains.

I'll have to research more into what is the best TDI PD oil...

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#2695567 - 07/25/12 11:55 PM Re: V10 TDI VW Touareg oil analysis results [Re: Brons2]
clint440 Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 7
Loc: WA
Interesting, so mobil TDT seems to do pretty darn good. VW guys scream bloody murder if you aren't using a 505.01 or 507.00 approved oil. I might go with TDT since their seems to be good oil analysis results. I've been running the OEM filters as that is all that is out there for the touareg.

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#2695622 - 07/26/12 04:25 AM Re: V10 TDI VW Touareg oil analysis results [Re: clint440]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5618
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
I've not seen many of the v-10 diesel UOAs. Typically, the TDI 4-cyls do throw a bit more Fe than the average gassser, but that's just become a bit common-place and most accept it as no big deal, because long term history shows it to be not an issue for lifecycle.

However, a 4-cyl TDI also does not throw 250+ppm of Fe in only 6600 miles ...

Is this "normal"? According to the lab, it is. But I find it to be otherwise. What few UOAs I've seen of this engine, I don't find that to be "normal".

Something is askew. Either the report is flawed (always possible) or the engine is wearing at an accelerated rate somewhere.

I would agree that a bearing/bushing is likely not the issue; Cu and Pb are too low. Unless the Cu and Pb were worn away long ago at a bearing journal, and now there is a steel camshaft or crankshaft riding on the steel bearing shell because the bearing lining is simply gone ... I'm not assuring anyone this condition is true, but it's certainly a possibilty. The rig has 84k miles on it; it is entirely possible that a manufacturing flaw has been reducing the bearing surface down since inception, and possilby now that the Cu and Pb might be gone, the only thing left is steel on steel?

Another possibility is the gear-to-gear contact on the cam drive (I didn't know of this design in this rig, but I'll take you at your word as I have no information otherwise).

There has to be a reasonable explication for 250+ppm of Fe in only 6.6k miles. Either it's lab error or heavy wear is occuring; one or the other.

Next time you take a UOA sample, get two of them. Keep one back for a "second opinion" from another lab.

Is there a series of UOAs on this engine to compare/contrast it to, or just this one? You are new here; is this your first UOA? I see that you mention that you've been running the Amsoil for the last 25k miles. I wonder if this is a cumulative wear pattern starting to develop. IN NO WAY am I blaming Amsoil here; it might just be a poor match up. I did check the Amsoil site; the AEL is the recommended lube for the 2006 diesel V-10.



Edited by dnewton3 (07/26/12 04:35 AM)
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#2696003 - 07/26/12 12:18 PM Re: V10 TDI VW Touareg oil analysis results [Re: clint440]
zanzabar Offline


Registered: 06/21/09
Posts: 405
Loc: NorCal
I have to lean towards camshaft wear. Have you been using 30wt oils consistently on this truck? In the 4cyl PD TDIs the 30wt 505.01 oils seem to consistently promote premature cam wear whereas the 40wt oils seem to hold up better. Still that iron number looks way out of whack compared to everything else in this sample.

I think the only pertinent course of action is to pull the valve covers and examine the cam lobes and lifters. I'm not familiar with the V10 but in the 4cyl TDIs the cam lobe closest to the timing belt is nearly always the first (or only) lobe to wear out so pay particular attention to that one.

Also, a compression test might be an even better first step.

Regardless of what else you do, get a 40wt oil in there and forget the 505.01/507 stuff, especially since you have removed the DPF.
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#2696224 - 07/26/12 02:52 PM Re: V10 TDI VW Touareg oil analysis results [Re: zanzabar]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
Yep, I forgot that cam wear produces high Iron and not much else, as does oil pump wear.
Some kind of corrosion is still another possibility, as is an envirnmental false alarm, like collecting the oil in a rusty bucket or driving around roads with fine dust from an Iron ore smelter or just a high Iron content soil.


Originally Posted By: zanzabar
I have to lean towards camshaft wear. Have you been using 30wt oils consistently on this truck? In the 4cyl PD TDIs the 30wt 505.01 oils seem to consistently promote premature cam wear whereas the 40wt oils seem to hold up better. Still that iron number looks way out of whack compared to everything else in this sample.

I think the only pertinent course of action is to pull the valve covers and examine the cam lobes and lifters. I'm not familiar with the V10 but in the 4cyl TDIs the cam lobe closest to the timing belt is nearly always the first (or only) lobe to wear out so pay particular attention to that one.

Also, a compression test might be an even better first step.

Regardless of what else you do, get a 40wt oil in there and forget the 505.01/507 stuff, especially since you have removed the DPF.

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#2696381 - 07/26/12 05:09 PM Re: V10 TDI VW Touareg oil analysis results [Re: skyship]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
If this is cam wear, then try asking in the VW forums about the best oil to use. I would guess that it might be a 5/40 HC or fully synthetic that has a high Zinc content. I don't know what the BG additive that was used contains apart from Moly, but the figure for Zinc should be higher if you have an engine subject to cam wear issues and for some odd reason even though a good oil and an approved additive was used the UOA shows too low a Zinc content in my opinion. My UOA for Liqui Moly Synthoil 5/40 High Tech with no additives shows 950 even after 10K km.

It's never a good idea to use an additive from a different company to the oil one, as you don't know if the two will work well together and that low zinc figure is not good if you have a wear issue like this, then you need an oil with plenty of zinc and one that doesn't break down when hot, so try another fully synthetic as Amsoil and Snake oil might not be the answer.

Also this engine has been remapped in some way and I have lost count of the number of diesels damaged by folks fiddling with the original map set up.


Edited by skyship (07/26/12 05:12 PM)

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#2696445 - 07/26/12 06:30 PM Re: V10 TDI VW Touareg oil analysis results [Re: clint440]
scurvy Offline


Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 2274
Loc: Chicago IL USA
I would use Schaeffer 9000 or Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck (I would not use 0w40) in it. Get the beefiest HTHS number you can.

My PD TDI has shown excellent results & downward trending wear metals on UOAs since switching to S9k with a little ZDDPlus & Lubro Moly MoS2 added.
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